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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 20:33:20 GMT -5
let me repeat this for you - in similar situations it pretty much always ends badly for the guy if realistic means negative to you - fine but its way better to realistically(negatively?) asses your chances and get it over with now then cling to false hopes for months in frustration only to have it end with disaster if you think this sort of experience is positive as oppose to quickly settling the matter, then I disagree with you
sigh, you don't see how this does not make sense I'll try to explain (in vain) the reason the guy feels pressure is because how he feels is completely disproportional to how she feels. And he knows it. He knows that he is pretty much in love, while realistically she may be just fond of him and nothing more or worse just likes him as a friend. In such a situation there is not really a discrete way to go about it. And the longer he waits the stronger his feelings are going to get - while hers don't change.
here is another thing you said
truly in love? I feel you are being just a little too positive here. I mean I can buy that the guy is truly in love - but there is absolutely no reason to believe that she is.
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Post by annaa on Mar 7, 2008 20:43:27 GMT -5
let me repeat this for you - in similar situations it pretty much always ends badly for the guy if realistic means negative to you - fine but its way better to realistically(negatively?) asses your chances and get it over with now then cling to false hopes for months in frustration only to have it end with disaster if you think this sort of experience is positive as oppose to quickly settling the matter, then I disagree with you sigh, you don't see how this does not make sense I'll try to explain (in vain) the reason the guy feels pressure is because how he feels is completely disproportional to how she feels. And he knows it. He knows that he is pretty much in love, while realistically she may be just fond of him and nothing more or worse just likes him as a friend. In such a situation there is not really a discrete way to go about it. Realistic is saying "I don't know what's happening. I can take a chance that she likes me and persue this.. or assume that she doesn't and try to get over this.. I have a choice". You were being negative in comparison to that. You are not the author of that thread. Neither are you Air Burst. Why am I even talking to you? It just depends on what you value in life.. a "learning experience" or a "fuck it.. let's get this oven and done with asap" experience.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 20:51:42 GMT -5
no thats not realistic - thats denial I did suggest that he pursue it - just not in the way you suggested he does know what is happening and thats why there is so much pressure all this 'I can't tell if a girl likes me' is BS its just difficult to admit to yourself that she either doesn't like you or likes you just a little but it still doesn't mean much
getting rejected right away is a much better learning experience then building false hopes for 8 months to be rejected in exactly the same way it just hurts a lot more with time
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Post by phoenixferret on Mar 7, 2008 20:59:18 GMT -5
I might have known you'd have your two pennies worth, Mr Nice. Have you checked out the "how the community can make you weird" link I chose? Only I think you're a textbook example. Dang, that was a really good article! This fella seems to be one of those guys who actually has managed to distill much of the good out of the general crap touted by Seductionists. And no, you don't need to have 1,000+ posts on a "Community" website for the things in that article to apply. A few things that reminded me of someone we know; some things that agree with my own thoughts on the matter: "Many of the guys who are attracted to this stuff can be weird, awkward, and undersocialized, so the cause-and-effect isn't clear. Does the Community make you weird, or is it just that a lot of weird people are drawn to it, or does something about it bring out a new kind of weirdness in a certain type of person?" "...They'll be giving advice to a guy and get called out on it; 'Well if you know so much about girls then why don't you show us?'" "The path they took through life may have caused them to miss out on social knowledge most people take for granted. They may have a lot of mental baggage or negative attitudes towards people. So when they come across certain pieces of advice, they don't really 'get' it and apply their own weird spin to it. A more regular guy could take a particular piece of advice, instantly understand all of its unwritten guidelines and assumptions, and have success with it. A more awkward guy may misuse it and annoy people." "One prominent example where you see this is with the advice telling guys to be an Alpha Male, or be High-Value, or High Status. Many socially clueless guys won't end up acting like how true high status people behave. Instead they'll act how they think Alpha Males act. [...] They'll be arrogant and aloof towards other guys, even their friends. They'll try to put down or one-up other people. [...] They won't admit to any mistake they make. They don't get it and end up being socially inept and obnoxious as a result." A few selections from his list of attitudes Seduction encourages: -Women are flaky and unreliable. -Women are emotional and illogical. -Women are self-centered and self-interested. -Women don't know what they really want. -Women are powerless to resist the right type of guy. And his evaluation of the list: "I'm not saying there's no truth at all in these statements, of course there's some. These statements do describe some women, or the way some women act in certain circumstances. But taken as a whole, you gotta admit this set of beliefs is pretty negative, misogynistic even. Just as all women aren't special creatures that need to be rescued, they aren't all fickle, emotional, and selfish either. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and it depends on the girl. Some girls are really normal and cool and easy to talk to." "A criticism about Community guys I've heard several times is that many of them are arrogant, overconfident geeks. As in, these guys meet several objective criteria for being losers, and they have no rational basis for acting as superior as they are. [...] I think there are a few reasons for this behavior. The first is the importance the Community places on being Alpha, and how this advice is frequently misinterpreted. The second reason, which I mentioned right off the bat, is that the Community often instills a false sense of arrogance and proficiency in its members. Third is that it's not uncommon for socially lacking guys to possess a false sense of being better than other people." Great article, from a guy with the seduction experience to back it up. His other articles seemed pretty insightful, as well--more like normal dating advice than any seduction-type crap. I haven't looked at that site he suggests enough to form an opinion, but the Datingroundwork site itself looks pretty decent.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 21:36:02 GMT -5
in the advice I actually give, I can fully back it up with experience - both positive and negative
as usual you take something you don't like and call it seduction crap and anything you like would be good general dating advice typical
why don't you follow the link on his website - it looks like the web page has SEDUCTION written on it
never mind that he was once part of the community and actually tried all that 'seduction crap' and 'would not have met his girlfriend without it'
it made him into what he is even if he is knocking on it now so it is useful after all
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Post by phoenixferret on Mar 7, 2008 21:48:45 GMT -5
if you want to knock on me go ahead - but in the advice I actually give, I can fully back it up with experience - both positive and negative You've told us what your experience is. To paraphrase, you've had, what--a short-term girlfriend, a few flings, and now you're looking for someone new to date? I'm sorry, but that's not very impressive. Most "normal" guys who consider themselves bad with women have managed to get that far. The reason people kept asking about your experiences is that you act like you have the answers to every situation regardless of the details, as though you've been through so much that you just know. Other people give advice like: "Maybe she's feeling X. You could try doing Y." Your responses are always, "She is feeling N. Do Z." But you've really had barely any experience at all. Personally, I'd be a little more realistic about my ability to shed light on dating and relationships, if I were you. I'm really doubting your reading comprehension skills again. You're just not getting it, are you? Why do you think I said "seduction site experience?" Uh, yeah, see... Here's the thing. He actually managed to take the positive stuff--which EVERYONE has consistently said is mashed in there with the bullshit--and distilled it out and put it in a website. You, on the other hand, are just another one of those weirdos, at present, anyway. The creator of the site mentioned that he fell into many of those traps himself, so maybe you're just in a larval stage and your claims and high opinion of your Knowledge will be made real. But we're still waiting.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 21:50:23 GMT -5
except that I have been right about it pretty much every time even if the guy would be pissed off at me afterwards
waiting for what? I don't need to theoretically prove to you the validity of my advice the fact that what I predict happens is more then enough
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Post by annaa on Mar 7, 2008 21:58:04 GMT -5
no thats not realistic - thats denial I did suggest that he pursue it - just not in the way you suggested he does know what is happening and thats why there is so much pressure all this 'I can't tell if a girl likes me' is BS its just difficult to admit to yourself that she either doesn't like you or likes you just a little but it still doesn't mean much You only chose the part of what I said to agree with your point... I did acknowledge the fact that there's a possibility she won't like him... Also, you did suggest her persue it. SO essentially, we were suggesting the same thing. How then, as I asked originally, was I giving him some sort of reason to "join a community"?? That's what I want answered from you. getting rejected right away is a much better learning experience then building false hopes for 8 months to be rejected in exactly the same way it just hurts a lot more with time It's a matter of opinion. You could, during those 8 months, learn a lot of important things.. you could build confidence.. you could give yourself some really happy memories, so you might look back on the situation in the future and smile and think "well at least I got something out of it".... Can you accept that as a valid point?
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Post by phoenixferret on Mar 7, 2008 21:58:39 GMT -5
Maybe you could get all your thoughts out in one post at a time, Lsdima, instead of constantly making major edits..? It makes the conversation so much easier to follow. except that I have been right about it pretty much every time even if the guy would be pissed off at me afterwards You really have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? I have seen you wrong fairly recently when you declared you knew exactly why a female poster was having trouble in her relationship, and being completely wrong afterward. I've also seen you tell a lot of shy guys on this site that girls they've been chasing from afar for a year are probably not into them... What an astonishing surprise when that turns out to be the case! Whoever could have predicted? Yeah, still not impressed.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 22:00:23 GMT -5
have you ever had a crush on someone for 1.5 years that got stronger and stronger to then be rejected? its just not something you look back on and smile
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 22:02:31 GMT -5
BS if you mean the 'help me!!!' I was not wrong on that apparently it is a surprise to them and people do urge them to keep the hope alive - so its not as obvious as you might think [/sarcasm]
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Mar 7, 2008 22:08:37 GMT -5
have you ever had a crush on someone for 1.5 years that got stronger and stronger to then be rejected? its just not something you look back on and smile Really? I don't even think about any crushes I've had in the past. It's not even on my radar at all. I figure if someone doesn't make a move in 1.5 years then that is on them. It's sort of like the girls who let someone use them for sex for years before getting a clue.
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Post by phoenixferret on Mar 7, 2008 22:10:42 GMT -5
waiting for what? I don't need to theoretically prove to you the validity of my advice the fact that what I predict happens is more then enough "Theoretically" no one ever needs to prove anything unless they're on trial in a court of law, so I'm really not sure what that's supposed to mean. I haven't seen you predict anything that many other people have not also predicted. BS if you mean the 'help me!!!' I was not wrong on that Yeah you were. But don't worry--it's ok to be wrong sometimes. I promise your ego won't explode... well, probably not.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 7, 2008 22:14:25 GMT -5
just saying that I am wrong doesn't prove me wrong you'll need to back it up with something - otherwise I call BS in fact I think you just saying it out of spite
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Post by annaa on Mar 7, 2008 22:15:54 GMT -5
have you ever had a crush on someone for 1.5 years that got stronger and stronger to then be rejected? its just not something you look back on and smile I've had a crush on a guy for 4 years... he rejected me and I was so fragile I took an overdose. 2 years since then, I look back and think "Yeah it was a rough time, but he was a pretty cool guy.. it wasn't fair of me to put that sort of strain on him - if I saw him again i'd apologise". Maybe it's all about your level of maturity though.. Still, I want to know why i'm giving guys ammunition to join a community. You can't take just one comment and then make that claim - tell me more about how i'm doing this.
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