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Post by Samantha on Nov 3, 2005 7:34:43 GMT -5
BTW, Fir Na Tine, I'm no admirer of Reagan, but I like that quote in your signature line. That was around the time he was campaigning for Goldwater, so he was probably still on the level. Fear not Reagan was probably quoting Churchill to whom that definition of an appeaser is most often attributed. I don't think there is as much anti-Americanism than you think. In the Middle East maybe and that is the most important. The west have always fucked around with other countries. Supporting dictators here, suporting rebellions there etc. If you stick your nose into other peoples' business then you shouldn't be surprised if some people get pissed off as well as being grateful. I'm sure some of the Christians in America wouldn't be too happy if foreign countries gave alot of money and support to non-Christian presidential candidates etc.
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Post by Some Guy on Nov 3, 2005 8:09:39 GMT -5
I know people who talk as though they hate all americans, whilst at the same time claiming to be very liberal. Ive found that a lot of people, particularly young students here take pride in calling themselves left wing but display far more arrogance than the people they criticise and label as arrogant. Its these people who Ive found that claim to hate America. Ive spoken with a lot of americans on forums over the years and Ive found a mix like you would find with any country.
There is one american attitude I have come across that I cant stand however, and that is the belief that the only reason that there are anti-american feelings throughout the world is because the rest of the world is jealous of the US and its freedom and values. I believe that a lot of resentment towards America particularly in the middle east is justified and does not come from jealousy. The US has made mistakes just like all nations and continues to make mistakes and most Americans do understand this completely. I can not stand the Bush administration and I totally disagree with many of the decisions it has taken (environmental decisions and Iraq mainly) but I realise that many Americans agree.
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ellis
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by ellis on Nov 4, 2005 21:00:18 GMT -5
I find that many Europeans have minds that are clouded over with prejudice towards the United States. Furthermore, their opinions are all in lockstep with what you hear from Liberal media sources, almost as if they were being spoon fed what to think on a daily basis.
The part about being told what to think is probably no different than people in any part of the world. Basically we have the choice of reserving judgement or going on "facts" that are presented to us by some media entity. All of those media sources have some kind of underlying politics or philosophy, and they will choose what to present and what to leave out largely based on that. There is no objective report. And there is no way for us to personally know the true facts about international or national affairs.
So people basically become either devoid of any informed opinion, or they become more or less puppets of someone else's point of view. It would seem that the majority of media sources in Europe present an anti-American point of view, and some in America do the same.
Now having said that, its also true that the media can better sell certain points of view if they someone resonate with the target audience. I do believe that many people in the middle east see the US as being too liberal or "free" to use another term, and they hate us for standing as a threat to their way of life. Simply by being a very wealthy and powerful society that ignores the dictates of their religion, we stand as a threat to them culturally.
European countries not long ago were the ones making unilateral decisions. They once had the power to do so. The people retain a pride and memory of this. There is no doubt in my mind that there is some hurt pride involved when they see the US disregard their opinions. But make no mistake, every nation acts primarily out of self interest. No country is completely altruistic. They all have vested interests in world affairs.
So they bottom line is who cares? It makes no difference. The problems of 2 little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this world. Large forces move society this way and that, and we have no way of comprehending them completely, or even of getting a grasp on the facts involved. We are born randomly in some country, we live and die, and guess what, history goes on with or without us. Our pathetic concerns and opinions are meaningless on a large scale. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Leave the concerns of the wealthy and powerful to the wealthy and powerful.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2005 18:15:06 GMT -5
Bottom line: The USA has an ego problem, but we're not so bad. hmph dont be so sure of that. my (usual) ignorance in this area prevents me from feeling too strongly or from being to vehement in this discussion. but i dislike america too but not for the usual reasons. its not because of the war in iraq - in fact i partly agree with it from a purely strategic point of view. nor do i have a problem in particular with the U.S. 'big brother' attitude. heck i wish I had a big brother sometimes . maybe id be a little tougher lol. what truly makes me shudder is the stories i hear about whole families being thrown out on the street and people living in their cars. what the hell's that about?? and also i hear about people having to work two and even three jobs just to make ends meet! . thats terrible! even worse is that this is the model that other countries- such as mine- are trying to adopt; ruthless buisness and political policies that destroy lives instead of building them. whats that about? i thought slavery was abolished. it looks like it just morphed into overworking people of any colour and particularly of lower class. so much for the Great American Dream. and to think people from my country line up at the american embassy here, shelling out hundreds of dollars in the HOPES of obtaing a visa. i for one would NOT be alive today if i was born in the united states of america. they trample the weak and the helpless over there with a Passion from what i see. i dont even want to visit the damn place. ill end it here. if i have <once again?> spoken in ignorance or out of turn, then it is your duty o american patritots to correct and rebuke me. if i have spoken wrongly then let me know. dont let me continue to belive in a lie. Well part of that problem of familes not being able to make ends meet is because lots of companies are send jobs overseas to 3rd world countries so they can take advantage of cheap labor. Also is the fact that immigrants coming to the U.S. get deals if they open a business, tax breaks and such. Also the country is flooded with illegal immigrants who work for cheap, thus taking jobs. I deal with construction builders, and most of the new home developments are built by 90% non- citizens, mostly Mexicans, some illegal some not, they rotate in and out. Their pay is minimum wage if not below. The homes they build are mu ti-million dollar homes too, so the company makes a mint in profits, and truthfully the quality of the homes is awful. They don't really train there workers cause it costs time and money. I give the workers credit though they do work hard for very little and I know they send money home where its worth more but they get treated badly and are made to live in sub-standard housing. There are still some areas that are Union Workers only and pay a very fair wage and the workers are very skilled tradesmen, often following in there fathers footsteps and trained well too. I often wonder though,,what if companies here farm out all the work and only hire those who will work for cheap,, won't they themselves lose in the long run, cause nobody here will have money to buy anything. I feel if you pay well enough for a person to live a comfortable life, then that person will be a more productive worker and will have more money to spend to pump into the economy. This could also go for other countries too btw....
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Post by wagnerr on Nov 14, 2005 13:43:45 GMT -5
hmph dont be so sure of that. my (usual) ignorance in this area prevents me from feeling too strongly or from being to vehement in this discussion. but i dislike america too but not for the usual reasons. its not because of the war in iraq - in fact i partly agree with it from a purely strategic point of view. nor do i have a problem in particular with the U.S. 'big brother' attitude. heck i wish I had a big brother sometimes . maybe id be a little tougher lol. what truly makes me shudder is the stories i hear about whole families being thrown out on the street and people living in their cars. what the hell's that about?? and also i hear about people having to work two and even three jobs just to make ends meet! . thats terrible! even worse is that this is the model that other countries- such as mine- are trying to adopt; ruthless buisness and political policies that destroy lives instead of building them. whats that about? i thought slavery was abolished. it looks like it just morphed into overworking people of any colour and particularly of lower class. so much for the Great American Dream. and to think people from my country line up at the american embassy here, shelling out hundreds of dollars in the HOPES of obtaing a visa. i for one would NOT be alive today if i was born in the united states of america. they trample the weak and the helpless over there with a Passion from what i see. i dont even want to visit the damn place. ill end it here. if i have <once again?> spoken in ignorance or out of turn, then it is your duty o american patritots to correct and rebuke me. if i have spoken wrongly then let me know. dont let me continue to belive in a lie. Well part of that problem of familes not being able to make ends meet is because lots of companies are send jobs overseas to 3rd world countries so they can take advantage of cheap labor. Also is the fact that immigrants coming to the U.S. get deals if they open a business, tax breaks and such. Also the country is flooded with illegal immigrants who work for cheap, thus taking jobs. I deal with construction builders, and most of the new home developments are built by 90% non- citizens, mostly Mexicans, some illegal some not, they rotate in and out. Their pay is minimum wage if not below. The homes they build are mu ti-million dollar homes too, so the company makes a mint in profits, and truthfully the quality of the homes is awful. They don't really train there workers cause it costs time and money. I give the workers credit though they do work hard for very little and I know they send money home where its worth more but they get treated badly and are made to live in sub-standard housing. There are still some areas that are Union Workers only and pay a very fair wage and the workers are very skilled tradesmen, often following in there fathers footsteps and trained well too. This could also go for other countries too btw.... Interesting. I also work around these types of guys too. The poor Mexicans who's only real option for labor is to slave on construction sites every day and get paid in cash, but never enough to get by and make themselves better. I notice how a lot of construction companies seem to be hiring cheap labor nowadays. The company i work for could be considered the Wal Mart of former contractors. I help lots of poor Mexicans, both fellow employees and customers, get work done every day. And the general attitude towards these poor Mexicans is deragatory. Just an example. The other day i was working outside, helping move pallets of blocks and dirt around for sale. These couple of Mexicans come in and want thirty bags of mulch. Okay, i thought, we'll get it for you. I get a flat cart for them, and all three of us load the bags of mulch on the cart for them. Then, they pay for it, and we go to their truck parked just outside the entranceway, and we begin loading up. My co-worker comes over to me and says to let them alone and let them fill it up themselves. I look at him for a minute, and i continue to help loading the mulch. That's just a small example, i know, but this semi-racism seems to be very prevelent down here in Texas. This attitude towards Mexicans is disturbing, i think. You're right. Free labor benefits everyone involved. One worker that has enough money to buy a new shirt causes a domino effect in a market economy.
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Post by pansy on Nov 15, 2005 1:41:24 GMT -5
if you all got a problem with United Hates of America just get the hell out!
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Nov 15, 2005 5:01:44 GMT -5
if you all got a problem with United Hates of America just get the hell out! Ok I will!
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Post by wagnerr on Nov 15, 2005 16:21:02 GMT -5
do you really expect me to believe that? that the problem is cause by those pesky corporate fatcats that we keep hearing about? sounds like a cop out to me. maybe its the companies. or maybe you live in a nation that is the very embodiment of this 'dog eat dog' attitude or morality or whatever you want to call it, that is the foundation of life in the 21st century. mabye you live in a country where human life simply has no value beyond dollars and sense. ever think of it like that? Which country are you from WiseDuck? Sounds like you have some fisrthand experience on this matter. I'd like to hear more, if you want to tell me.
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Nov 15, 2005 17:59:02 GMT -5
but you are also percieved as the "land of masochism" (personal metaphor), where you will survive only if you keep moving constantly. if you stop to rest even for a monent, you will be trampled to death beneath the hooves of stampeding rats. hence the reason so many people work themselves literally to death. all the way to old age. but its just a perception, its not true. right? only if you let it. If you get sucked into buying a bunch of junk to impress people or to supposedly make yourself feel better then you probably will work yourself to death. Then again there are people who never seem to work and I don't know how they live? Then there are reverse snobs like me who make a decent living but live way below my means. I value my free time.
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Post by wagnerr on Nov 15, 2005 20:23:55 GMT -5
anyway i just wanted to let you all know, esp you american patriots, that the general percepction of your country is still that of the land of opportunity. which is why you are still getting a lot of immigrants. but you are also percieved as the "land of masochism" (personal metaphor), where you will survive only if you keep moving constantly. if you stop to rest even for a monent, you will be trampled to death beneath the hooves of stampeding rats. hence the reason so many people work themselves literally to death. all the way to old age. but its just a perception, its not true. right? Well, like our British comrades here said, whenever you live in one of the strongest countries on the planet, they're are gonna be people who like you and dislike you. The British used to have this problem too when they were repsonsible for half the world, and the US just seemed to inherit it from them afterwards. Bottom line, if you're a really tough person, you're gonna feel differently about the tough guy than someone else might. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. But i know that a lot of people resent US because of our almost 'religious' conviction that we need to export our system to the rest of the world. Interestingly enough, some of the countries that hate the US the most are the ones that learned how to operate from the US. Very interesting, i think. In truth, i think most people just dislike the US govt, not so much the Americans themselves. This will happen with any govt, and it's perfectly normal i think. A govt's responsibility is to enforce laws, and of course this will always annoy some people. So just enlarge this scope a lot bigger, and bingo!! Lots of resentment. However, my understanding is that the US is not the most hated country in the world, just the most prominent at the moment. Other countries, like the Soviet Union, tried to enforce their own systems and beliefs onto countless millions, so there's another good example of the Tough Guy scenario. Some people liked it, and some don't.
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hello
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by hello on Dec 3, 2005 18:31:59 GMT -5
What do Brits think of America or Americans?
Hmm its difficult question - question is...can you wholly like a person based upon their politics? For example, i could not envisage getting along with someone whose politics are conservative/republican i.e. on issues such as euthanasia, gay marriage, abortion, death penalty, and so forth.
I think it may well be true - that Americans like Brits or the country hmm, more than the antithesis...i have nothing against any americans from personal experience..the only yanks i knew, but only on preparations for a seminar presentation, they seemed to be Democrats, well they were, staunchly anti-Iraq war.
I feel America has been branded very badly largely due to the Bush family, Reagan and fellow war-mongers - his close knit advisers and the alike...and of course the dirty, 'hidden' agenda to it alll - the positions on oil boards of his close circle and the alike...contracts set up in a new established Iraqi constitution, THEY WISH, i dont think its all innocent, purely for iraqi liberation....a more justifiable cause...would be eradicating poverty, although you can't just willy-nilly throw money into various poor economies in the third world, due to corrupt g/ments, dictatorships etc...but USA's image would be much improved and showered in positive light if its actions in foreign affairs were warranted, necessary and would lead to improvements. Iraq is a dogs dinner right now...and it has made things worse - with insurgents flowing from Iran to Iraq - best to keep out of others business, or at least, when any intervention would more than likely make things worse, heighening what is an already out of control, hotbed of conflict/hatred.
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