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Post by Farouche on Dec 5, 2008 19:00:59 GMT -5
Naptaq -------------- I might shock some people here but I found an explanation, which to me, makes a lot more sense than all of this creation vs evolution argument. That's not shocking, or even new. A lot of Christians (particularly in Western Europe) and indeed other religions accept that evolution is trueis great, and that the whole god(s) thing is separate issue altogether.
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Post by Naptaq on Dec 5, 2008 19:09:16 GMT -5
That's not shocking, or even new. A lot of Christians (particularly in Western Europe) and indeed other religions accept that evolution is trueis great, and that the whole god(s) thing is separate issue altogether. Well I don't see it as an seperate "issue". What I'm saying is: Each moment is a Creation of God. So, over time changes will be noticable, hence evolution theory.
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Post by Farouche on Dec 5, 2008 19:14:24 GMT -5
Naptaq -------------- Well I don't see it as an seperate "issue". What I'm saying is: Each moment is a Creation of God.
So, over time changes will be noticable, hence evolution theory.
That doesn't really make sense, but hey, as long as you're accepting evolution and the validity of scientific inquiry, good for you. ;D
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Post by Naptaq on Dec 5, 2008 19:27:37 GMT -5
Yeah, it's all good
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Post by nelo on Dec 5, 2008 21:22:55 GMT -5
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Post by Astroruss on Jan 12, 2010 20:25:03 GMT -5
I was talking to my friend who was an athiest about this 2 weeks ago over facebook and he thought it was easier to believe in evolution than God so then I asked him you think its easier to believe the universe came from nothing than from God? and we talked for a few hours after that about evolution and the Bible and, long story short, he believes in God now and is very gracious. You're missing the point. The truth is that religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Science cannot explain how things came about, at least not with any certainty. Neither can religion prove anything they attempt tp explain. They work on faith, with faith along with the faithful. They both work along different, parallel lines of thinking, and do not intersect.
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Post by geekguy on Jan 23, 2010 9:14:30 GMT -5
To say that there is no God you have to have all the knowlege in the Universe To say there is a god you must also have all the knowledge in the universe. You do not have all the knowledge in the universe, nor does anyone else, anyone believing they do is a naive fool. It is entirely possible that there is a god and that he put systems of evolution in place on earth. The question of whether or not there is a god that did this is pointless because there is no way to prove it. You're better off spending your time thinking about more important things in my opinion
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Post by MrNice on Jan 23, 2010 13:06:15 GMT -5
it is possible that there is a creator - however it has nothing to do with all the silliness propagated by the religions just because something may have started the universe does not translate into going to church on sunday
Maybe flying spaghetti monster created the universe - you can't prove that it isn't true, maybe you should believe in him so that he doesn't punish you when you die
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Post by geekguy on Jan 24, 2010 2:36:30 GMT -5
Yeah geekguy, I just quoted that from thewayofthemaster.com. Don't know how good of a quote that was. But don't let that dismiss everything else I've said. The problem is you're asking me to believe in what is essentially a myth, one that was created a little over 2000 years ago. That is simply never going to happen. Scare tactics like "you're going to burn in hell if you don't believe in god" don't exactly improve my perception of religion either.
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Post by MrNice on Jan 24, 2010 11:04:35 GMT -5
pretty much anything in the bible such as jesus, resurrection, sins, heaven, hell etc etc does not follow from the idea that universe did not happen randomly - as far as someone that does not already believe already is concerned, it is all a myth
some people believe in virgin birth and resurrection - some think it doesn't make any sense
a book says that a flying monster made of spaghetthi created the universe and you can't prove that it isn't true how does that sound?
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Post by Scotty on Jan 24, 2010 12:57:04 GMT -5
BELIEVE! ;D
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Jan 24, 2010 22:03:03 GMT -5
Charles Darwin was also very sexist and racist he wrote "the chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shown by man attaining to a higher eminence in whatever he takes up than woman can attain, whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands." He also wants us to believe that black people are less evolved than whites. That has nothing to do with it really. You're just trying to persuade by using "emotional appeal" tactics. Same goes with saying..."You're going to go to Hell if you don't believe in God." Anyway, Charles Darwin was flawed just as all human beings are flawed. We all have our own biases. Back in the day, it was pretty much acceptable to be sexist and racist. Unfortunately. Even if you aren't sure that God exists would'nt you want to just be sure that you're not going to hell? believe that you're a sinner and Christ died for our sins so that we dont have to take God's wrath which is Hell, thats all you have to do and you're saved and you will be on your way to heaven, AND you can't lose your salvation once you've become saved you're written in the book of life and you're saved forever. To the first question....I actually used to think the same thing. And, in all honesty, I used to feel morally superior for going to church every Sunday and believing in God. But how would that work anyway? If you have doubt, you have doubt. I don't think you can force faith, even if you're afraid of the "consequences" and a possible "Hell." If you fake it....if you say you believe in God just to say it, or go to church just because you fear the consequences....you're still faking it because you have doubt. And if God is all knowing than he would see that, and it would count for nothing anyway... To the rest of it...you said to "believe that you're a sinner and Christ died for our sins" and that's all we have to do to get into Heaven. Really? Nothing else? So all I'd have to do is believe in God, that Christ was his son, and that I'm a sinner and that buys my way into Heaven? Regardless of other behavior? How about those that KILL other people "in the name of God".....surely he would not approve of such behavior either. So none of you believe in a God? Doesn't it bother you all that according to the Bible that you're on your way to hell? I think you've missed a point. Does Hell exist? If one does not believe in the concept of even a heaven or a hell, why should they be afraid of that? I must ask you this.... Is there not even a smidgen of doubt in your mind that none of it's real? That religion, the bible, etc. was created by man simply as a way to get the rest of society to obey certain rules? To scare people into "being good" and well-behaved members of society? Don't you think that's quite possible? Humans in general want an answer to everything, I think....whenever there's no answer, we attribute it to being a "miracle" or the likes. There must be something greater than us, right? But it's possible it's all just another fantasy world created by man. I will admit, though...I don't know what to believe. So I don't like to give any of this much thought anymore. There's really no point in debating it, because people are pretty set in their beliefs either way and there's no way of being 100% sure of anything. But I cannot believe that if there is a God, that he would be so judgemental and angry that he would condemn good, decent people just because they lack faith or belong to the "wrong" faith. Especially so long after all the biblical stuff supposedly happened. Certainly he would be more understanding and loving. And if not, then maybe heaven isn't all that great anyway. Could be more overrated than anything else. Anyway, robbie....I actually sort of wish I had a stronger faith. It certainly can give more meaning to life and help one get through difficult times. But once you really start to question everything, it's hard to go back to that idea. You can't force something that you don't feel. (btw, don't be surprised if I delete this post later on... )
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Post by Scotty on Jan 24, 2010 23:33:40 GMT -5
So none of you believe in a God? Doesn't it bother you all that according to the Bible that you're on your way to hell? I consider myself to be an Agnostic Athiest, so while for the most part I do not believe in God, I admit that I can't prove it. Really for me it's not a case of if He exists or not...it's if I choose to worship Him. And which version of Him, for there are many different versions of God, especially in Christian America. I gave up calling myself a Christian shortly after coming to this country. Either God loves me no matter what I choose to believe, so I have nothing to worry about. Or he is going to send me to hell for not believing, and there's no point worrying about that because I'm sure I've done several things to earn my place there. And then there's the God with a plan which can not be change, in which case I'm what he wants me to be, therefore...boo ya! I'm happier without a Religion. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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Post by geekguy on Jan 25, 2010 2:42:04 GMT -5
Fear of what is actually tangible (like, the world being decimated by nuclear bombs) is far more important to me than fear of old myths.
1. Good writers have the potential to carry on and add to simple stories with clear-cut characters. 2. The prophecies were supposedly fulfilled ACCORDING to a 2000 year old fable. 3. Not everyone knows everything about what happened in the past, and written records can have things added or removed from them or even changed around by the historians of the time they were recorded to put forth their own version of events that unfolded around them. (Don't assume that I'm saying I'm certain that this happened, for I didn't exist then and certainly don't have all the answers as many people claim to have by simply reading a book.)
Again, according to old literature.
What I just said applies again.
Nice salesman bomb you dropped there.
This probably seems like an attack on you of sorts and on christianity, and you'd be right to think that, but I cannot find a more polite and concise way to try and get my view across. I find it so sad to see people dreaming away their existance on a fantasy made up so long ago, living in fear of eternal damnation.
Don't live your life by a book!
(also, this entire thread has sort of derailed away from the whole idea of intelligient design being taught alongside evolution in our schools, so I'll also comment on that now).
Students should be allowed to observe the theory of Intelligient Design as much as they should be allowed to observe the theory of Evolution. HOWEVER, I do not feel that students who do not with to learn it should have to learn it, It should be an option learnt through courses of study such as Religious/Cultural studies programs (or whatever type of subject that would be in your local education system). Choice is important.
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Post by MrNice on Jan 25, 2010 12:58:55 GMT -5
there is no such thing as a theory of intelligent design, and its definitely not something you can "observe"
intelligent design is an idea - but exactly NOTHING specific has been stated about the designer or the process of design within a scientific context
creationism is what people really have in mind when they talk about intelligent design and it has absolutely no place in a science classroom
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