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Post by shypsychologyguy on Dec 12, 2005 13:49:36 GMT -5
what do you guys think
ther cite for it is fairtax.org i think basically this is what it would mean:
No IRS No medicade or income taxes and some other stuff one standard 23% sales tax
to me this sounds like a democratic idea more than a republican but it is a republican proposal.
also how do you guys feel about privatizing social security.
I will say I am for it because the system is already being utilized by some federal agencies with their employees.
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 12, 2005 14:21:30 GMT -5
Well, i think the nation needs a service like the IRS to regulate income. As for a 23% sales tax, that sounds way too high. No one would buy very much after passing of such a high commerical tax like that. Commerce would suffer incredible losses with an income tax like that. Income taxes are neccessary, though. However, i do wish our govt could pass an income tax that does what it should do in theory; redistribute revenue from those who can afford it to those who really need it. Medicade needs to be reformed, possibly discarded. It's too inefficient and not sufficient for old people anyways. Social security also should be discarded, and a new more sensible program should be devised. As for privatizing it, well, that sounds good in theory but i'm afraid people won't utilize this option very well. Those that depend on social security the most are those who have not the know how to efficiently invest their income. If the govt really wants to help out the American domestic economy, then a higher blanket tarriff should be passed. True, it would hurt consumers in the short run, but in the long run would make the domestic economy more self sufficient and improve the quality of peoples' lives and decrease unemployment.
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Post by shytothebone on Dec 12, 2005 14:47:39 GMT -5
what do you guys think ther cite for it is fairtax.org i think basically this is what it would mean: No IRS No medicade or income taxes and some other stuff one standard 23% sales tax to me this sounds like a democratic idea more than a republican but it is a republican proposal. also how do you guys feel about privatizing social security. I will say I am for it because the system is already being utilized by some federal agencies with their employees. We need a flat tax much like the idea Steve Forbes has. everyone gets taxed the same amount who makes over 18,000 a year no death tax, sales tax, property tax. Just one damn tax that you pay at the end of every year.
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 12, 2005 14:57:24 GMT -5
what do you guys think ther cite for it is fairtax.org i think basically this is what it would mean: No IRS No medicade or income taxes and some other stuff one standard 23% sales tax to me this sounds like a democratic idea more than a republican but it is a republican proposal. also how do you guys feel about privatizing social security. I will say I am for it because the system is already being utilized by some federal agencies with their employees. We need a flat tax much like the idea Steve Forbes has. everyone gets taxed the same amount who makes over 18,000 a year no death tax, sales tax, property tax. Just one damn tax that you pay at the end of every year. Yeah, but then no one would have anything to complain about. ;D
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Post by MrNice on Dec 12, 2005 15:22:56 GMT -5
yeah, take the money from the rich and give it to the poor great idea
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 12, 2005 15:28:38 GMT -5
yeah, take the money from the rich and give it to the poor great idea Not precisely. The theoretical income tax i am refferring to asseses the relative income of the rich in a society, shaves off a bit of income from them, then the State redirects this wealth towards public services and institutions. The income tax does not directly distribute wealth to the poor. Rather, the income tax would improve the quality of life for all aspects of society and enhance the power of the state at the same time.
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Post by HybridMoment on Dec 12, 2005 20:02:31 GMT -5
From what I've heard and read about the fair tax, I do like the idea. I read half of a book on it in a book store, I didn't buy it because I was too cheap Here are some reasons I like the idea of a fair tax: 1) It makes the tax code much more simple. No tax returns, no pay roll withholding, no property tax , no hidden taxes you might not even realize you're paying, no loopholes... [Forget what I said about property tax, it's a state tax. I must have had today's bond election on my mind.] 2) Illegal immigrants and anyone else who has been able to escape paying taxes will have to pay their fair share when ever they buy something. 3) People think a sales tax would decrease spending, but it might actually increase it. Instead of having a large chunk of money taken from your income you would be able to spend that money on what you want, and then have a portion of it go to taxes. 4) People would have more control of their money. If you don't think the government should have your money, you could avoid the tax by buying used goods, saving, and investing your money. If you're rich and don't care how much you spend, you will be paying a larger amount of the tax - but the choice it up to you. (There also is a rebate for people at the poverty level.) I'm not sure, but the 23% is based on the amount of taxes we pay now (though I think the site says the national average is more like 25%). The fair tax system is designed to take in the same amount of money, just in a different way that taxes people fairly and gives you more options with what you choose to do with your money.
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Post by pansy on Dec 13, 2005 0:42:58 GMT -5
yeah, take the money from the rich and give it to the poor great idea where's Robin Hood when we need him?
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Post by shytothebone on Dec 13, 2005 4:15:52 GMT -5
yeah, take the money from the rich and give it to the poor great idea yeah socialism that shit is working wonders in Europe right now. Really gives people the imitative to get out and do something with themselves doesn't it? Its a wonderful life lets just live on handouts the rest of our lives.
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Post by HybridMoment on Dec 13, 2005 11:41:13 GMT -5
Speaking of taking from the rich and giving to the poor, the state I live in (Texas) actually has something called "The Robin hood plan", which takes money from the "rich" school districts and gives it to the poor ones. No one really likes it, and the Texas legislature is currently debating ways to replace it.
One problem with it is how it classifies "rich" school districts. The school district I live in is considered rich, not because we are, but because people own a lot of farm land which is valued high, bringing in quite a bit of property tax.
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The fair tax would end up making more revenue from the rich, because they have way more money to spend then the average person. This is why it's considered a progressive tax.
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 13, 2005 13:39:30 GMT -5
yeah, take the money from the rich and give it to the poor great idea yeah socialism that shit is working wonders in Europe right now. Really gives people the imitative to get out and do something with themselves doesn't it? Its a wonderful life lets just live on handouts the rest of our lives. Well, this is key to the Socialists' plans; theoretically, the govt would supervise everything and own everything. More and more, bit by bit, the govts of Western Europe, particularly UK, are becoming socialist. Of course, theoretically under Socialism we'd all be equal. Dirt poor, but equal nontheless. I'm kind of sick right now, and i don't have the energy to properly debate the issues of taxation and socialism. But rest assured, i have some ideas about this.
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Post by Tal on Dec 13, 2005 17:24:24 GMT -5
More and more, bit by bit, the govts of Western Europe, particularly UK, are becoming socialist. Actually, European governments, especially the UK are moving further away from socialism, as much as it pains me to say it. As for this Fair Tax thing, it looks interesting from a brief read on several sites. Tax systems certainly need simplification. If all the money made from sales tax is collected centrally (assuming local taxes are replaced too), then a new layer of bureaucracy will be need to deal with that, though I can see it assisting greatly in fairly redistributing money across an entire national/federal polity rather than keeping it in regions with wealthier taxpayers.
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 13, 2005 18:06:39 GMT -5
More and more, bit by bit, the govts of Western Europe, particularly UK, are becoming socialist. Actually, European governments, especially the UK are moving further away from socialism, as much as it pains me to say it. Oh? Hmm, no kidding. Anything in particular, Tal? I made a point of observing the British system when i was over there this January. Everywhere i went i saw evidence of socialist laws passed, like stores being closed on weekends for example, and nearly all stores closed after 6pm in London. In nearly all the historic places i visted, i would see little hints of anti-religion and anti-monarchy in exhibits and landmarks. I'm curious, Tal. What's being done to erode semi-socialist policies yall have had going? I remember reading about Blair's falling support at home over a domestic issue, the right of citizens to defend their homes and property against rising crime. Blair had promised to act on this issue, but had not.
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Post by Tal on Dec 13, 2005 18:34:51 GMT -5
in short (because its offtopic), i was refering a trend of privatisation since Thatcher, not just of large service companies, but also now healthcare and education. Add to that the meritocratisation of the welfare system - welfare based on conditions, obvious failure of healthcare etc to provide a service to everyone, loss of freeedom through silly anti-terror laws, centralisation of political power in Whitehall and shift in political parties rightwards and you have what I call a move away from socialist values.
I'm not sure where on the left-right scale to put this Fair Tax thing. If it gives an advantage to the wealthy as some criticism suggest, then on the right, otherwise perhaps just slightly towards the left.
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Post by wagnerr on Dec 13, 2005 21:35:12 GMT -5
in short (because its offtopic), i was refering a trend of privatisation since Thatcher, not just of large service companies, but also now healthcare and education. Add to that the meritocratisation of the welfare system - welfare based on conditions, obvious failure of healthcare etc to provide a service to everyone, loss of freeedom through silly anti-terror laws, centralisation of political power in Whitehall and shift in political parties rightwards and you have what I call a move away from socialist values. I'm not sure where on the left-right scale to put this Fair Tax thing. If it gives an advantage to the wealthy as some criticism suggest, then on the right, otherwise perhaps just slightly towards the left. Perhaps they were seeing the limits that socialism could bring to a society, on practical terms. And maybe the Fair Tax shouldn't be placed on any right-left scale at all. Too many times i find myself thinking in terms like this, then i firmly bitch slap myself for doing so. What does it matter if a proposal is left or right? Look to the analysis of a proposed law or progam, and judge it that way, not by any politician or group.
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