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Post by corruptedheart on May 3, 2008 16:36:42 GMT -5
The "addictive personality" is just a myth, even the scientific community and addiction programs don't frequently use that misleading term anymore. Anybody can get addicted if they use drugs frequently regardless of their personality traits, but the key term here is frequently. Although it has been found specifically in alcoholism that some people do have a genetic pre-disposition towards it. Saying that an 'addictive personality' is "just a myth" and then saying it's been found that alcoholism has been shown to be possibly linked to a "genetic pre-disposition" seems quite contradictory. But I guess addiction is not really the problem here if this guy is talking about hallucinogens, and yes I was thrown off by his calling the drugs "hardcore". Some hallucinogens are legal in some states (like Texas with salvia and peyote for Indian use) and they are not addictive. He just has to worry about going on a bad trip. I still disagree. You can become "addicted" to any sort of behavior when you continually feel you have to do it in order to feel in some way at ease. That's the psychological addiction and it can occur with a numerous amount of activities. Exercise can even become an addiction. Bulimia/anorexia could be considered an addiction. I really wish people wouldn't downplay addiction so much. Unless you've experienced it, you can't really know how powerful it can be. But, whatever. I am done with this. No one cares what my opinion is anyway. And I'm obviously not helping anyone, which is the only reason why I even attempt to speak out. Have fun with your drugs, people. Just don't expect much sympathy once it becomes a problem. It's a hell of a lot harder to fix a problem than it is to prevent it. I'm not attempting to stifle your opinion, Strawberry. Just so you know, I have had a psychological addiction before I agree it is unpleasant. While you may not feel your opinion is valued, I have the same problem. If this makes anyone more at ease, I plan to talk this over with a doctor (they can't break confidentality on this, right?), he'll probably think I'm crazy, but oh well. from wiki: Even though this has been PROVEN, I'm sure this will meet with scrutiny. I think I might settle on shrooms, as it doesn't seem to be as damaging as the other drugs I was referring to. Yes, I realize there are possible negative effects taking shrooms, but people need to open up their minds a little. Presription drugs can lead to brain damage, can increase suicidal thoughts or induce them where there were none to begin with. I doubt Aldous Huxley, who was considered a genius, would be completely wrong. While one shouldn't be reckless and needs to take the utmost caution, there are undisputed benefits of certain illegal drugs if taken correctly.
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Post by pnoopiepnats on May 3, 2008 17:01:29 GMT -5
Here's a little secret. Everyone is awkward in social situations...yes everyone is whether they appear to be or not, they are.
I strongly suspect that you have too much time on your hands.
Instead of trying to escape from your life and self through drugs, which you know that is what you would be doing, engage yourself in life and you will feel much better all around.
Sign up for some volunteer work at a shelter or old age home.
Do you have a job? Do you have short term and long term goals? Are you doing a gratitude list everyday?
Do you meditate?
These things are absolutely free and getting engaged in life and having gratitude for what you have is a guaranteed cure for what ails you.
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Post by corruptedheart on May 3, 2008 17:31:49 GMT -5
Yes, I have a job. But that is besides the point.
It seems that even if a drug is proven to have great capacity for healing, but if it is illegal, it is labelled bad.
A gratitude list? nice try. Don't say "you have your health" because that is far from the truth. And, life's happiness comes from a combination of things, not just one thing.
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Post by pnoopiepnats on May 3, 2008 19:58:06 GMT -5
Yes, I have a job. But that is besides the point. It seems that even if a drug is proven to have great capacity for healing, but if it is illegal, it is labelled bad. A gratitude list? nice try. Don't say "you have your health" because that is far from the truth. And, life's happiness comes from a combination of things, not just one thing. Hmmm so let's see you want to argue with someone who is happy and successful and doesn't use substances to escape from life and you want to tell me what works for me won't work for you because...?
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Post by Sweet Pea on May 3, 2008 20:22:41 GMT -5
ch, since you have your mind made up you're going to experiment with illegal drugs, all i can say is good luck. you may already know about it, but there is a medical doctor who is very public about his approval of non-prescription drug use in certain situations. of course, he's a high-profile 'celebrity' doctor, but he is an M.D. he wrote some books on the subject. there's an excerpt from one available to read here in case you or anyone else reading this discussion is interested: The Natural Mind
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Post by corruptedheart on May 3, 2008 20:52:45 GMT -5
Yes, I have a job. But that is besides the point. It seems that even if a drug is proven to have great capacity for healing, but if it is illegal, it is labelled bad. A gratitude list? nice try. Don't say "you have your health" because that is far from the truth. And, life's happiness comes from a combination of things, not just one thing. Hmmm so let's see you want to argue with someone who is happy and successful and doesn't use substances to escape from life and you want to tell me what works for me won't work for you because...? Because I'm not you. What works for you, won't nedessarily work for me. I'm glad you are happy and successful. I will admit, I did say I wanted an escape from reality, but I've refined my original opinion. I just want to change my natural thought process/negative emotions, open up a new mindset. That's not nearly as easy as you are making it out to be. Plus, some people are so far outside the norm in terms of how they think that you can't possibly apply the same "fix" to them, and say for certain it will work.
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Post by HybridMoment on May 4, 2008 1:21:12 GMT -5
...Some hallucinogens are legal in some states (like Texas with salvia and peyote for Indian use)... "Indian" use is totally different. They have a spiritual & cultral purpose for using hallucinogenics. They have very knowledgable people on the subject, and nobody is left to use those kind of substances alone. Doing it for a bit of an escape from the shit going on in your life is just not the same. I don't see what should set Indians apart from anyone else. Personally it's the last thing I would do, but what if I wanted to have a spiritual journey with peyote? Just because some people aren't born into a specific culture shouldn't mean they can't take the same precautions and have the same benefit from it. I also would not recommend that he use hallucinogens alone, but I know in certain Indian rituals young warriors did take their peyote trip alone in the wilderness. One more point, I never suggested that he use drugs to escape his problems, I just said if he wanted to use them for recreation that he could avoid an addiction (to physically addictive drugs) by setting limits for himself. The "addictive personality" is just a myth, even the scientific community and addiction programs don't frequently use that misleading term anymore. Anybody can get addicted if they use drugs frequently regardless of their personality traits, but the key term here is frequently. Although it has been found specifically in alcoholism that some people do have a genetic pre-disposition towards it. Saying that an 'addictive personality' is "just a myth" and then saying it's been found that alcoholism has been shown to be possibly linked to a "genetic pre-disposition" seems quite contradictory. But I guess addiction is not really the problem here if this guy is talking about hallucinogens, and yes I was thrown off by his calling the drugs "hardcore". Some hallucinogens are legal in some states (like Texas with salvia and peyote for Indian use) and they are not addictive. He just has to worry about going on a bad trip. I still disagree. You can become "addicted" to any sort of behavior when you continually feel you have to do it in order to feel in some way at ease. That's the psychological addiction and it can occur with a numerous amount of activities. Exercise can even become an addiction. Bulimia/anorexia could be considered an addiction. I really wish people wouldn't downplay addiction so much. Unless you've experienced it, you can't really know how powerful it can be. But, whatever. I am done with this. No one cares what my opinion is anyway. And I'm obviously not helping anyone, which is the only reason why I even attempt to speak out. Have fun with your drugs, people. Just don't expect much sympathy once it becomes a problem. It's a hell of a lot harder to fix a problem than it is to prevent it. People can have a genetic pre-disposition towards different diseases and have completely different personalities. I don't doubt that people are susceptible to psychological addictions, I just think that the idea of people getting a psychological addiction to hallucinogens is farfetched. It's probably about as likely as any other possible psychological addiction a person could have. Imagine if people started avoiding other activities because of the possible psychological addictions they might get from eating, exercising, going online, watching tv, working, shopping...
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gaia
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by gaia on May 4, 2008 2:32:09 GMT -5
I don't see what should set Indians apart from anyone else. Personally it's the last thing I would do, but what if I wanted to have a spiritual journey with peyote? Just because some people aren't born into a specific culture shouldn't mean they can't take the same precautions and have the same benefit from it. I also would not recommend that he use hallucinogens alone, but I know in certain Indian rituals young warriors did take their peyote trip alone in the wilderness. One more point, I never suggested that he use drugs to escape his problems, I just said if he wanted to use them for recreation that he could avoid an addiction (to physically addictive drugs) by setting limits for himself. They are not set apart from anybody else.. at least not any more. I mean I know a guy who runs regular trips to the Amazon rain forest for the whole purpose of taking ayahuasca, to explore hallucinogens in the same way the Natives do. (He tried talking me into it, but the purgative effect that stuff has put me right off...). And yes, young warriors did take hallucinogens alone in the wilderness, but i'm sure it was after much advice from their Elders. The very fact of the boys/young men being called 'warriors', goes to show you it's not an easy journey. Anywho, thanks for clarifying some of the stuff that was bothering me about your original post.
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Post by strawberrysweetie on May 4, 2008 15:14:43 GMT -5
I don't doubt that people are susceptible to psychological addictions, I just think that the idea of people getting a psychological addiction to hallucinogens is farfetched. It's probably about as likely as any other possible psychological addiction a person could have. Imagine if people started avoiding other activities because of the possible psychological addictions they might get from eating, exercising, going online, watching tv, working, shopping... lol...well, that makes all the difference, though. I sure wish I could avoid some of those things listed, but much of it (particularly eating, shopping, and working) are just things you can't avoid, which is obvious But, drugs are one thing you can avoid and choose not to even try. On top of that, you risk taking "illegal" drugs. Personally, I wouldn't want to risk getting caught. But, meh, that's just me. Hmmm so let's see you want to argue with someone who is happy and successful and doesn't use substances to escape from life and you want to tell me what works for me won't work for you because...? Because I'm not you. What works for you, won't nedessarily work for me. I'm glad you are happy and successful. I will admit, I did say I wanted an escape from reality, but I've refined my original opinion. I just want to change my natural thought process/negative emotions, open up a new mindset. That's not nearly as easy as you are making it out to be. Plus, some people are so far outside the norm in terms of how they think that you can't possibly apply the same "fix" to them, and say for certain it will work. corruptedheart...it's not "for certain" that anything is going to "work." A lot of it really is up to you and the effort you put into changing yourself. How are you for certain that none of the suggestions given to you (besides drugs) will work for you? Have you tried any non-drug remedies on a consistent basis? It's true it's very difficult to change a mindset, but if you slowly work at changing your typical thoughts/behaviors into more positive ones....I am learning that doing so can make one turn around. It may take time, but with effort and the determination, I think it can be done. It seems that even if a drug is proven to have great capacity for healing, but if it is illegal, it is labelled bad. I believe that certain drugs were made illegal because their negative outcomes came to outweigh any postive benefits they may have provided. Anyway, illegal or legal, there is no miracle drug. And, life's happiness comes from a combination of things, not just one thing. Are you sure of that? Where exactly does happiness come from? It is possible for a very rich, successful man who is married and has a family to be far unhappier than a poor not-so-succesful (through society's eyes) man. By the suggestion of a friend, I am reading a book on happiness and how to become a happier person. The idea behind it is that any truly happy person is able to be happy/content under any circumstances and that one can only expect to find happiness from within, not from the external environment. Okay, so I know I said I wasn't going to say anymore...but I just can't shut myself up. All in all, of course, the decisions you make are ultimately up to you. We all have to go through certain experiences to better understand ourselves...the paths we all choose to take just may be very different. That is life, and I am trying to learn to accept that.
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Post by corruptedheart on May 4, 2008 15:49:10 GMT -5
Perhaps, and everyone needs a stable core within themselves in order to cope with their surroundings, but...I believe in not letting go of what you want, the ideals.
Well, politicians aren't known because of their awesome judgement skills. I agree there is no miracle drug, and that you need external stimulus to help facilitate things. But, I think certain drugs can help oil the wheels of change (god, that sounded nerdy).
I'm still debating on whether or not to try anything, so I dunno...
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Post by pnoopiepnats on May 4, 2008 19:01:41 GMT -5
yep, how do you know the drugs will make things better?
From what i have seen, drugs generally makes people's lives worse.
Here's a couple more non drug suggestions. How about a life coach or counselor?
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Post by corruptedheart on May 4, 2008 19:41:16 GMT -5
yep, how do you know the drugs will make things better? From what i have seen, drugs generally makes people's lives worse. Here's a couple more non drug suggestions. How about a life coach or counselor? I didn't really know "life coaches" exist or would know how to go about getting one. I do have an appointment with the counsellor next month.
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Post by strawberrysweetie on May 4, 2008 21:40:36 GMT -5
Perhaps, and everyone needs a stable core within themselves in order to cope with their surroundings, but...I believe in not letting go of what you want, the ideals. Well...I agree that one should not give up their goals/dreams/ideals.....but, I just don't think that is what happiness is about. Being happy with yourself doesn't necessarily have to mean that you don't want to make changes or try to achieve anything else. I think it's simply an inner peace within yourself, a contentment with who you are...and a sense of being alright and maintaining hope. I think having inner happiness can also prevent one from becoming overly devastated by outcomes that are less than ideal. Often "ideals" don't turn out the way we thought they would. Many people have the mindset of...oh, I'll be happy when I graduate school/get a job/get married/have children/lose weight/get a better job/retire/etc. etc. etc. And then when each comes, it either doesn't go as expected or a person ends up wanting more, something different...and possibly ends up never being entirely happy. I admit I still have that mindset, but I am realizing more and more how damaging it is. I am not currently a happy person, but I do have more hope now that I can change that....it is at least a work in progress. I do have an appointment with the counsellor next month. That's a good step forward. Hope it goes well for you.
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Post by MrNice on May 5, 2008 11:27:11 GMT -5
beliefs/goals/ideals/dreams can actually hinder your progress it often pays to try things in a different way then what you have in mind I don't see any of these things as being some sort of sacred part of one's personality we think these things up at some point in our lives - but there is often no reality check on them
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Post by strawberrysweetie on May 5, 2008 11:46:46 GMT -5
beliefs/goals/ideals/dreams can actually hinder your progress it often pays to try things in a different way then what you have in mind I don't see any of these things as being some sort of sacred part of one's personality we think these things up at some point in our lives - but there is often no reality check on them I agree to only a certain small extent. It really depends on what your dreams/goals whatever are. If you have a dream about being a successful singer and making a career out of it...yet you can't carry a tune....then yes, it is something unrealistic to strive for. Same as with acting. Both are big dreams but take big talent and possibly a bit of luck, as well. Yet, if one of your goals is to finish school and get a decent job that you can become satisfied with...I think that's realistic. If everyone would give up on their dreams....nothing would be accomplished in this world.
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