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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2009 7:57:58 GMT -5
Farouche, read what I write: this is a promiscuity issue. Promiscuity is bad just like reckless driving is bad. It shows you've got little respect for yourself and are ruled by impulses and hedonism with no regard for potential implications for other people. And hopefully they aren't married to boot.
Any religion or decent moral standard will tell you that promiscuity is bad just like stealing is bad, so this is moral relitivism. "It's okay, because I think it's okay".
I understand the gender double standard regarding promiscuity, but I'm not adressing it here.
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Post by MrNice on Apr 19, 2009 8:54:10 GMT -5
says who?
I compared it to driving because in either case we risk hurting ourselves and others but its a risk we are willing to take.
if you want to compare it to reckless driving you have to show how responsible behavior involving multiple sex partners over the course of one's life is 'reckless'. You don't have any supporting arguments and just claim that it is
no - it doesn't
once again, your own unsupported opinion
BS
what other people are you talking about?
what implications?
what religion says that promiscuity is bad just like stealing is bad?
what makes you an authority on decency?
you say all these things, but its only your own biased ignorant opinion
you don't have any rational argument so you resort to authority?
this is not moral relativism
you do not know what moral relativism is - please stop referring to it
you just say all these things but all it really comes down to is - promiscuity is bad because I think it is bad.
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2009 9:54:58 GMT -5
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Post by MrNice on Apr 19, 2009 10:11:51 GMT -5
this is not result of promiscuity - this is a result of people lying about their intentions
as it has been mentioned already, if you behave responsibly and take precautions you will not get/spread STDs and AIDS even if you have multiple sex partners over the course of your life,
so this is not a valid argument
in case you didn't understand what I meant, it was a logical fallacy called appealing to authority
I don't have walls of religious authority in my own life and I am not asking you to join me
and please try not to get personal
in your biased unsupported opinion
I believe they are wrong and that a person can responsibly have multiple partners over the course of their lives without excessive risk
just like we take risk driving a car, the benefits far outweigh the risks in case of responsible behavior
that's what I said
sure
google.com
off you go
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 19, 2009 11:11:40 GMT -5
to my mind, a good way to make decisions about what is good/bad, right/wrong, when my religious beliefs don't make things perfectly clear in a particular situation, is to think about my children. i feel that any decision i make has to be justifiable in light of the impact it will have on my children or on children in general in the society around me. also, any time i'm not sure if it's okay to do something, i can ask myself if i would want to see a child of mine doing it. that usually clarifies things really quickly. promiscuity is clearly one of those things that is clarified by those thoughts. it's funny how many people talk big and brave about assuming the risks of promiscuity until it comes time to address it with their kids, then it's WHOA! no, no, no...don't do that! it's dangerous! it's bad for you! lol
and i think that's alot of what religious beliefs are doing in this type of situation - taking the family and community as a whole into consideration when making decisions, instead of having the lust of the moment of an individual make those decisions. now some people will throw around religious dogma as an excuse for pushing their own personal agenda, but that's certainly not always the case.
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Post by littledarling on Apr 19, 2009 13:06:47 GMT -5
it's funny how many people talk big and brave about assuming the risks of promiscuity until it comes time to address it with their kids, then it's WHOA! no, no, no...don't do that! it's dangerous! it's bad for you! lol very good point. I'm not planning on having kids but I never thought of that contradiction! even with taking precautions, it's a significantly lower risk, but STDs can still be spread. how do you think all of these unplanned pregnancies can occur? It's unfortunate, but females DO have to worry about their reputation if they choose to sleep around, especially in a small town . . . and Mr Nice, how does being promiscuous in itself show that you don't care about others' feelings? I don't think the two are incompatible, especially if there is no cheating involved. |
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2009 13:13:42 GMT -5
this is not result of promiscuity - this is a result of people lying about their intentions And that happens especially with promiscuity. "An innocent lie" is always justified when it comes to enjoment. There are many people like that, they're not all MrNice and MrsNice, you know. Having one sex partner at a time, that is also your parter or someone you're married to, is not the issue here since it's not promiscuity. However, having multiple partners at the same time, some just for sex and some "for real" which you lie to in order to have sex, is promiscuity. |
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2009 13:33:37 GMT -5
it's funny how many people talk big and brave about assuming the risks of promiscuity until it comes time to address it with their kids, then it's WHOA! no, no, no...don't do that! it's dangerous! it's bad for you! lol That's true. Take, for example, the world famous pornstar, Jenna Jameson. She said that when she'll decide to have kids she's going to quit porn because, for her, porn is something you do when you're single. I think she meant it's fine if you're without kids, because she did have boyfriend and married a couple of times. Anywho, she indeed retired in 2008 and had twins a year later. The funny thing is that she's a self-proclaimed Catholic. Wow. ;D |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 19, 2009 13:43:50 GMT -5
it's funny how many people talk big and brave about assuming the risks of promiscuity until it comes time to address it with their kids, then it's WHOA! no, no, no...don't do that! it's dangerous! it's bad for you! lol That's true. Take, for example, the world famous pornstar, Jenna Jameson. She said that when she'll decide to have kids she's going to quit porn because, for her, porn is something you do when you're single. I think she meant it's fine if you're without kids, because she did have boyfriend and married a couple of times. Anywho, she indeed retired in 2008 and had twins a year later. The funny thing is that she's a self-proclaimed Catholic. Wow. ;D man, i feel sorry for those kids! who would want to grow up in the public spotlight as the child of a world famous porn star. geez, growing up is hard enough without all that!  catholic huh? people are funny sometimes. i'll take bets that she's gonna be a strict parent too.  |
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Post by MrNice on Apr 19, 2009 16:03:26 GMT -5
I never said that, you are probably referring to rukry or naptaq
that's a BS argument
its like saying that food poisoning is the result of eating food
fist of all lets be honest here - girls don't do this
and my other point is that I believe that people are not sheep and can make informed decisions, think for themselves and chose what to do
driving is worse then promiscuity in this regard, because you can be crossing a road and get hit by a car through no fault of your own. If you have sex with someone and catch an STD though, part of responsibility is on you. If you follow your own standards you don't have to worry about what other people are doing and try to shove your opinion down their throats.
ok, so now you will define promiscuity as you see fit, which includes lying to get sex?
promiscuity has no precise definition, and has been pointed out, a woman having sex outside of marriage can be considered promiscuity
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Post by MrNice on Apr 19, 2009 16:05:40 GMT -5
umm, yeah - that's because kids/teens can not make the same informed responsible decisions that adults can
I don't think parents care the same way when their children are 30 as when they are 15, wouldn't you say?
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 19, 2009 17:07:24 GMT -5
umm, yeah - that's because kids/teens can not make the same informed responsible decisions that adults can I don't think parents care the same way when their children are 30 as when they are 15, wouldn't you say? of course you're going to be more concerned about a 15 year old than a 30 year old on the experience level, but on another level - i wouldn't want to see them living a lifestyle that's harmful to themselves or others at any age, and would discourage it. realistically, there's no ability to control the behavior of a 30 year old, and i wouldn't try to. but i let my kids know how i feel about what they're doing at any age, even though they might not listen...at first. |
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2009 17:32:36 GMT -5
fist of all lets be honest here - girls don't do this I don't know about that, since we know that women cheat too. So, it's fair to say that a certian part of the population think it's ok to "white lie" someone into bed, but I could be wrong. Sure, but in some cases the informed decision is based on a lie by someone else. And it seems to me that people in pursuit of hedonism are more likely to lie to get what they want. People are well aware of dangers of driving. More people die in car wrecks than modern day wars. Life is one big risk man. I could die any minute. I'm on the fence about that. I say that if you suspect that he or she is sleeping around a lot, some culpability is on you because you knew it and did it anyway. But I'd suggests testing them first, like skyhint recommended. Or better yet, not doing it at all - at least not the casual way - which would be the best thing. I should've pointed out that it was an example of promiscuous behaviour. I'm sticking with this one: "In human sexual behavior, promiscuity denotes casual sex between many partners." Wikipedia |
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Post by Farouche on Apr 19, 2009 20:44:04 GMT -5
Sweet Pea -----------------
it's funny how many people talk big and brave about assuming the risks of promiscuity until it comes time to address it with their kids, then it's WHOA! no, no, no...don't do that! it's dangerous! it's bad for you! lol Ok, by your logic, isn't it immoral for children or parents to ever have sex? It seems like you're just suggesting that you can "tell" that something is wrong because you don't want your kids to do it. Does that work the other way around? Because when I think of my parents ever doing... that (shudder), I get kinda, "WHOA! no no no, don't do that!" I think part of being a parent is not wanting to think of your babies growing up and bonking, but that doesn't make it wrong just because it gives you the heebie jeebies. I get the impression that parents nearly always fear their kids will be too naive to have safe sex, or drive responsibly, or travel without falling in with the wrong crowd and getting their organs harvested. So they get tense about the kid having any sex, or borrowing the car at all, or going anywhere. I think my parents' heads just about asploded when they realized I was serious about living in a big city, but in no way does that mean cities are immoral (well, maybe if you're Amish). LittleDarling ----------
It's unfortunate, but females DO have to worry about their reputation if they choose to sleep around, especially in a small town . . . But this is a direct result of promiscuity being labeled "bad," and not a direct result of promiscuity itself. This kind of mindset is something that can change, even if it takes time. Naptaq --------------
Farouche, read what I write: this is a promiscuity issue. Promiscuity is bad just like reckless driving is bad. It shows you've got little respect for yourself and are ruled by impulses and hedonism with no regard for potential implications for other people. And hopefully they aren't married to boot.
Any religion or decent moral standard will tell you that promiscuity is bad just like stealing is bad, so this is moral relitivism. "It's okay, because I think it's okay". ARGH. "Promiscuity is as bad as stealing because I say so." You think that's an argument? "Moral relativism" says that Naptaq doesn't just get to decree that something is morally wrong. You have to have an actual reason. See if you can use that brain to figure out why stealing, murder, and assault are different from promiscuity, gay sex, and masturbation (three sexual activities that religion has decreed to be immoral). And no, you still don't have a clue about moral relativism. You throw the term around as an insult without bothering to understand what it entails. You don't want to understand. I suggest you learn how to construct an argument that doesn't rely on empty appeals to authority or rhetorical bluster about concepts you don't understand, or just don't bother. Mr Nice --------------
promiscuity has no precise definition
Naptaq -------------
I'm sticking with this one:
"In human sexual behavior, promiscuity denotes casual sex between many partners."Wikipedia How precise. So what's "many?" More than one partner? Three? Five by the time you're thirty? 10 by the age of 25? 30 by 50? Over 20 by the time you're dead? All your arguments against promiscuity boil down to two equally empty points: 1. promiscuity is wrong because religion says so/it's wrong because I say so and 2. it's wrong because there are a bunch of different bad scenarios that can involve promiscuity. The first point is indefensible; the second point is based on all these "what if" scenarios that have nothing to do with number of partners. STDs? A manageable risk, and one that is present EVERY time you have sex, even if it's only once or twice. It is entirely possible to be both promiscuous and responsible, just as it is possible to be non-promiscuous and irresponsible. Judge by whether the person is spreading diseases People getting their feelings hurt? This concern is pretty silly, but a few things here: being lied to and getting hurt in relationships starts in kindergarten when bestest best friends change day to day. Sex is just "sharing secrets" plus genitalia. Also, lying is NOT an inherent part of promiscuity any more than it is an inherent part of friendship. And also, in this day and age with casual sex on the rise, there is less incentive for anyone to be lying to get sex, since so many girls (and guys) feel free enough not to need an "I love you" or a sign of commitment to justify sex. Let me quote yourself to you, Naptaq: Naptaq --------------
People are well aware of dangers of driving. More people die in car wrecks than modern day wars.
Life is one big risk man. I could die any minute. So why are you so hung up about promiscuity? If you don't like promiscuous girls, or people with a lot of mileage on their cars, or atheists--don't sleep with them. That's entirely a personal choice. There's no reason to go out of your way to condemn promiscuous sex just because you don't like it. I personally wouldn't enjoy having a lot of casual sex, or partying, or participating in X-treme sports; the idea does nothing for me. But there are people who really do enjoy those things, and who enjoy them safely. |
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Post by madiocre on Apr 19, 2009 21:29:13 GMT -5
ok thinking about the original thread i really can't help but point out the pure hypocricacy . It's seems slightly unfair to say that its wrong for women to judge men on their experience and turn them down based on this which hurts men . However in that sentence you used the word slut which is what .....A judement on experience which hurts women .
The word slut to me is one i ponder a lot and have a lotof issues with. The reasons why i have issue with it are many but thee main beef is that any time i hear it i can't help but feel dispair about equality between sexes .It's a reminder that yeah we both still have stereotypes we have to stick to . I mean yeah sweet pea is right there are growing amounts of people who say that the word is for men too . However it seems like superficial political correctness calling a men a slut is never taken seriously . And really at the base of it slut is a word intended for women who step out of their gender confines of sexuality .
The debate they they are doing themselves harm is a really poor one . A rapist is a criminal and the rapee is a victim . It's that simple . It doesnt matter what she said or wore or how she battered her eyelids if she said no and he did it anyway he is in the wrong . There s no way you can jump to the conclusion that if you suspect a woman sleeps around that she doesnt use protection . If you are going to jump to conclusions about a woman who sleeps with alot of different people and their protection habits it logic would say that they would know to use a comdom and get tested .
And as far as talking about cheating and hurting men that doesnt come into the defininition of being a slut . The term slut has nothing to do with that person hurting anyone. Yes it is correct that a woman who cheats maybe called a slut but its not the acvtual definition of it . Thinking of it its kinda weird and unfair how the word slut is seen as worse then cheater when it is the cheater who actually hurts someone .
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