Santa Claus: Harmless or Harmful?/Inventory

[strawberrysweetie]

I've debated about whether or not to even ask this, just because....well, I don't know. But I suppose now's a good time, Christmas is well over and the next one is far away. I try not to be a complete killjoy anyway, lol...

This does bother me a bit, though. So...what do you think?

Do you think that telling kids stories about Santa Claus in order to make them believe in him is at all harmful? Or do you think it is all completely harmless fun?

When I think about it, it really does seem amazing how far we've gone to support this one big lie. We teach kids about honesty and want them to be truthful when we ask them a question, and yet, look at how far we go just to support the belief in Santa Claus. The songs, the stories, the movies, etc. It's incredible.

Yet, on the other hand, Christmas was the best when I was a kid...it gave me something positive to look forward to, and helped create some positive memories. It always made Christmas seem magical. And I can see how adults will continue on with it; I got joy out of taking on the role of Santa on Christmas Eve when I was old enough...wrapping gifts, setting them up under the tree, and then watching my younger sibs and nephews be excited about opening up their gifts.

Kids like to pretend anyway, right? But is it okay if they are told for so many years that such a thing is truth?

I came across this article: www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23378895-santa-claus-does-not-exist-school-tells-stunned-kids.do...which is about a school informing students about the myth of him, which came as a surprise to many. What do you think about this? Should there be a certain age where children are told flat-out that it's a lie?

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Also, I have some personal questions, if you don't mind answering them.

1) At what age did you stop believing in Santa Claus, and how did it happen? Did your parents, siblings, friends or anyone else tell you straight out? Did you stay up only to find your parents putting gifts under the tree or stumble across gifts prior to the day? Or did you overhear people talking about it and/or figure it out on your own?

2) Were you at all upset when you found out or even just about the way that you found out?

3) Anyone ever not believe in Santa Claus at all? Anyone ever not celebrate Christmas? If so, did you ever feel like you were left out compared to other kids?

4) Was there ever a set amount of gifts that you received from 'Santa Claus?' (I once had a friend who said she only got 3 gifts...something to connect it to baby Jesus and his 3 gifts) This question may seem irrelevant, but I'm curious, because of the whole consumerism issue surrounding Christmas....people charging stuff, spending money they don't have just because it's almost like they think they need to (which is really the case of my parents :S)...

5) In the end, do you think this Christmas lie is worth keeping up with? If you plan on having kids one day, do you think you will try to get them to believe in Santa Claus?

I realize I'm asking a ton of questions here, so I don't blame you if you don't want to answer them all...or any, lol. But it is something I'm very curious about. And I think it's something worth reflecting on.


(and for any of those real-life versions of Deputy Trudy Wiegel out there, I am greatly sorry...)

[Rose]

Oooh I love random ponderings. ;D


The santa myth... hmm. I think it doesn't matter, personally, if kids wanna believe in Santa.

Whether it's 'harmful' or not could depend on how much "work" the parents put into the "lie". I think as long as the parents don't go into overly elaborate detail or try and fool the kid longer than their maturity level needs than it's alright.

Me personally, I just saw it as a fun game. Was kinda disappointed when my mom told me he was a phony, but only in an "aww that ruins the mystery" sort of way.

I think I was 6...maybe 7 when I stopped believing. Not sure, I just know I could read by then.

I only vaguely remember opening a dollhouse addressed "to rose from santa". I probably knew it wasn't really from santa. I can't even remember to be honest.

If I for some weird reason had kids someday I would probably just treat santa like a cute mysterious game like it was with me until they were old enough to ask suspicious questions. More than 3 questions sounds about mature enough.

[geekguy]

To answer your questions:
1) would've been somewhere around 7-10, and I'm not exactly sure how it happened but I think it was my brother and sister filling me in on the truth lol. My parents did a good job of not letting me catch them out putting gifts under trees or anything

2) nah I can remember thinking something along these lines ; "oh... well that makes sense."

3) My brother doesn't celebrate christmas in that he doesn't refer to it as christmas, instead referring to it as "Happy Summer Solstice" (turns out christmas and a number of other cultural holidays are connected with the summer solstice or thereabouts) but he still gets everyone a present so we don't think of him as a complete tight-ass with his money xD (and now I often refer to it as summer solstice too).

4) Can't remember exactly, probably got less as I got older though.

5) I'm not exactly sure, however because I want to raise any kids I have to be honest, good people, it would be good to have them know the truth.

also - "When I think about it, it really does seem amazing how far we've gone to support this one big lie. We teach kids about honesty and want them to be truthful when we ask them a question, and yet, look at how far we go just to support the belief in Santa Claus. The songs, the stories, the movies, etc. It's incredible." - I think you've summed up a big chunk of my views on the whole thing perfectly, couldn't have said it better myself ^^

[skyhint]

I think the point of Santa is that it is a way of giving a gift without expecting any thanks or gratitude in return. But I don't think a lot of parents see it that way.

[Crashtastic]

I said harmful because I believe Santa is an evil man.

...I have a Santa phobia

[Knox]

Is it harmful to let your child sit in a strange man's lap who listens to all their secret desires??

No,, not at all...

I hear Santa actually prefers the naughty ones.... ;D

[strawberrysweetie]

I was going to wait a week to respond back.......it's close enough, lol.

Thanks Rose and geekguy for your responses to my questions! And thanks to everyone else for your comments/votes as well. I am sorry if I conjured up some bad memories, though!

Feb 21, 2010 9:47:42 GMT -5 Rose said:

Whether it's 'harmful' or not could depend on how much "work" the parents put into the "lie". I think as long as the parents don't go into overly elaborate detail or try and fool the kid longer than their maturity level needs than it's alright.

I like what you said here a lot. That makes sense.

I think for me, it became a 'problem' because my parents never came out and said to me that he wasn't real. I was sort of an older kid when I found out he wasn't real for sure....but my parents never came out to me with the truth, even when I asked them at an older age. It kind of pissed me off, really. I just wanted them to tell me the truth, and they never did when it mattered to me that they did. To me, it seems like it's partly for them.....like them not wanting you to grow up or something and holding onto that for as long as they can. And then once you're out of it, it kind of seems like a disappointment for both parties. So, that is one thing that really bothers me about it.

But yeah, I do agree that there at least needs to come a point where parents just come out with the truth (if they want to follow through with it at all)....either at a certain age that seems appropriate or whenever a child is persistent with questions.

Feb 25, 2010 17:32:31 GMT -5 Knox said:

Is it harmful to let your child sit in a strange man's lap who listens to all their secret desires??

No,, not at all...

I hear Santa actually prefers the naughty ones.... ;D

lol...It is pretty creepy when you think about it!

[Farouche]

I meant to answer this back when the thread was new, but I never got around to it. I hafta say, very cool thread, Strawberry. I hadn’t realized exactly how I felt about this until I started to respond to each of the points you raised. Rose, Geekguy, Strawberry, it was very cool to read about your personal experiences with Santa, which are all markedly different from one another and from the my own experience, too. I could never be sure how other kids felt about it at the time, and it's not the sort of thing people talk about a lot, lol.

Onward!

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1. I always went out of my way not to look for gifts or stay up late to catch Santa (more on why in a minute). I was about 11 when my mom actually came out and told me and my sister that there was no Santa. I think the way she phrased it was, “you guys know Santa isn’t real, right?” I just mumbled that yeah, I had some idea.

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2. I felt angry and embarrassed. My parents and all of society had lied to my face and, I imagined, giggled behind my back that I was naive enough to believe their ridiculous story. I swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and actually went out of my way to squelch the impulse to disbelieve. I never snuck out of my bedroom to see Santa; I was afraid of what I would (or wouldn’t) see. I drowned out the misgivings about why Santa would give rich kids tons of presents and poor kids next to nothing. My friends in elementary school said they didn’t believe in Santa for various obvious reasons, and I said I understood why they didn’t, but that I chose to believe.

If “I choose to believe” sounds a lot like a religious argument, well... That’s because it was. As far as I could see, I’d been told two patently ridiculous stories: one about an omniscient, omnibenevolent white-bearded fat man who left me tangible presents if I behaved myself during the year... and one about an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent white-bearded (ok, according to the Simpsons) invisible man who in some distant future was supposed to reward me somehow or other if I behaved myself during my lifetime. Yeaaah... lol.

When I found out that the more plausible-seeming absurdity was an elaborate hoax, that was the beginning of the end for my religious faith. I managed to “choose to believe” for several more years, but the foundation had been removed. I was actively avoiding or blocking out things that I knew would raise unanswerable questions about the existence of God, just like I’d done when it came to sustaining the Santa belief. I didn’t want to question any of it, but the Santa experience provided a nice template for letting go.

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4. Nope, there were no real limits. My parents went pretty nuts at Christmastime, though they rarely splurged during the rest of the year. This was another reason Santa seemed plausible: I didn’t think my parents could actually afford all that they bought for us.

It’s actually a good argument for Santa, as Skyhint suggests. It saves the kids from being blown over by their parents’ seasonal generosity, and it puts up a nice barrier between what the parents are normally willing and able to buy for their children, and what they’re willing to splurge on at Christmas.

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5. On the one hand, I was very unhappy with being lied to, and it did make me somewhat resentful of my parents. I used to think I was entirely against it for that very reason, and because it really does suck for kids who believe in Santa longer than the rest of their peer group and get made fun of for it (I never was, even though I was older than most when I really quit believing). But then again, it does teach some important lessons.

-Critical thinking, for one. You learn that your parents and society itself are capable of telling you untruths, knowingly or otherwise, if there are perceived benefits to encouraging those beliefs.

-It also encourages kids to be clever about separating fantasy from reality. If a story sounds a bit far-fetched or contrary to one’s personal experience--for instance, if that story contains elves and flying reindeer—you learn to be more skeptical of the whole concept, even if there seems to be some good physical evidence to back it up.

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So maybe it’s actually healthy to expose kids to Santa and let them find out the truth, even if it hurts a bit--kinda like letting them get chicken pox while they’re still young enough that it won’t be too serious.

And of course there are also the very good points about allowing parents to enjoy giving their kids gifts without expecting anything in return. And there’s even the “for the fun of it” aspect (though I think there are more amusing ways to either see little kids be cute or to mess with their little minds ;D). Plus most kids are not traumatized or in any way harmed by Santa experience, and many people get a lot of joy out of it both as children and as adults.

So I voted “I’m not sure” in the poll. I’m not a fan of the Santa thing and I wouldn’t like to perpetuate it, myself (though again, maybe it’s actually a healthy experience), but I can’t say that it’s something I would actively like to see abolished.

End of longpost.

[strawberrysweetie]

ooo....fascinating response, Farouche.

I can relate to several things you said. For several years, I think my 'belief' in Santa was more from wanting to believe and making excuses that would support believing rather than actually believing per se. As you said, it seems unbelievable that parents could afford so many gifts or get gifts that you expect they would not want to get. For example, one year (I was 9), I got a dog....even though my dad always made comments about really not wanting one whenever I asked about it. And that same year, one kid in my class said something about parents being 'Santa' out loud to everyone...however, most all the other kids said that wasn't true and that he was real (whether they really thought so or were just trying to not 'ruin' it for others, I don't know). And the following year, I got a trampoline, something I never thought I'd actually get....so, there had to be a Santa, right? Because surely mom and dad wouldn't get such things they scoffed at. And most certainly they wouldn't lie to me for so long.

I would also try to ignore certain stuff I overheard...like when my mom would be discussing prices of gifts with someone, like a sister, and slip and say something about a gift I got which was supposed to be from Santa. It caught my attention a couple of times, but I still went on trying to believe anyway since they always acted as though it were real around me.

Somewhere around 10, though, I did know apparently...or started to come to terms with it anyway. I remember being at a friends house and my friend asking me if I still believed....I just told her, 'Not really.' And she said she didn't either, that she just pretends to believe so that she can keep getting more gifts that she assumed she would no longer get otherwise, lol.

And then at 11 around Christmas time, I finally got the courage to ask my mom if Santa was really real...hoping to honestly just get the truth about it for once from them. I can't remember what she said, but it wasn't a proper response I don't think. She went into the next room and I overheard her say something to my dad, like..."Do you know she still believes?" Later on, an older sister of mine was sent up to talk to me...and she just asked if I still believed and I think I just shrugged and said, 'Not really.' And then that was it, don't think anything else was ever said again about it. It just hurt, especially the way it happened. But then the following year, I found myself taking on the Santa role...helping to wrap presents and put them under the tree for the little ones in my family.

Mar 20, 2010 13:55:23 GMT -5 Farouche said:

If “I choose to believe” sounds a lot like a religious argument, well... That’s because it was. As far as I could see, I’d been told two patently ridiculous stories: one about an omniscient, omnibenevolent white-bearded fat man who left me tangible presents if I behaved myself during the year... and one about an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent white-bearded (ok, according to the Simpsons) invisible man who in some distant future was supposed to reward me somehow or other if I behaved myself during my lifetime. Yeaaah... lol.

When I found out that the more plausible-seeming absurdity was an elaborate hoax, that was the beginning of the end for my religious faith. I managed to “choose to believe” for several more years, but the foundation had been removed. I was actively avoiding or blocking out things that I knew would raise unanswerable questions about the existence of God, just like I’d done when it came to sustaining the Santa belief. I didn’t want to question any of it, but the Santa experience provided a nice template for letting go.

I find this very interesting. And I've wondered about this connection as well (much, much later though)....seeing that if everyone could lie about Santa, could it really be that belief in God is the same thing? The two do seem very similar, as odd as it kind of sounds to say it that way, lol. And as I thought about this Santa thing, I wondered if it could directly shake a person's religous beliefs.

I think the "lessons" you pointed out are also an interesting perspective.

Thanks for the response, Farouche.

[gals]

I don't see why Santa Clause is even considered harmful. I mean, where did that come from?

Santa Clause symbolizes Christmas and is seen as giving gifts every season for nice children, so I don't see him as harmless.

And besides, didn't we believe in him when we were youngsters? Even adults too?

[strawberrysweetie]

Jan 22, 2011 7:18:27 GMT -5 gals said:

I don't see why Santa Clause is even considered harmful. I mean, where did that come from?

Santa Clause symbolizes Christmas and is seen as giving gifts every season for nice children, so I don't see him as harmless.

And besides, didn't we believe in him when we were youngsters? Even adults too?

If you go back and properly read my posts, your questions should be answered.

Also, you contradicted yourself.