"I'm With Her" (RE: Better to date other shy ppl)

[ASolitarySoul]

I've been watching the new sitcom "I'm With Her" - a show where the
concept is about a famous movie star who meets a school teacher
and falls in love with him - simply because he is "genuine."

The thing that struck me is that, as I watch this guy (the school
teacher) operate, it occurred to me that I could NEVER be so
charming and interesting. If I had an encounter like this
(with a movie star or just some girl in public), my only
reaction would be "/duh/" - she would be polite to me, but
just say: "Well, it was nice meeting you" - and walk away
( ... and why not? What else COULD she do?)

It’s not a matter of being too afraid to make a move, but of
not having a move to make. It's not a matter of fear, but more like
cluelessness - just not knowing how to respond.

The way I see it, there are some forms of shyness that act, in function,
to restrict a person who HAS a certain degree of social proficiency,
and then there are forms of shyness that derive from those who are
socially mal-developed (such as myself), and, in those (our) cases,
it isn't a matter of having a condition that restricts a pre-existing ability,
but a symptom of the inability to function as a socially viable individual
in the first place - and this is a condition that goes beyond dating
and forming LTR’s to the much more general problem of forming social
relationships in general.

I've commented before about the few friends that I have,
and how they like to talk, and about how I'm such a good listener.
I suppose this is not surprising, as listening doesn't require
NEARLY as much in the way of social proficiency as actually
interacting on an equal level. If the topic of conversation
revolves around those few subjects that I happen to know something
about (firearms, cattle ranching, computers), then I can hold
my own somewhat (I've spent hours talking with gunsmiths, though
even then the bulk of conversation is taken by the gunsmith).

It occurs to me that social ability could be something innate,
a talent that you have to some extent, to one degree or another,
that CAN be improved upon to some extent, but, for some people,
NEVER be to the extent that you would be considered a "social butterfly."
None of us are born equal, with the same proficiencies and deficiencies,
so it stands to reason that some of us are born further down the ladder,
further down in "the dark abyss" than others, and have a MUCH harder
climb to make than others.

A LOT of this comes from our parents, and how we were raised,
and our respective cultural environments,
but I sometimes wonder if there isn't a genetic component as well,
something that leads to better developed verbal functionality within the brain,
as possessing poor verbal skills is a major factor in this condition as well.

... and, indeed, the influential factors are different for each of us,
in differing degrees, not to mention the differing skill sets that we
each have in dealing with those factors.

So, I guess the operational question would be:
"How do you learn the skills needed to become more socially proficient?"

Solitary Soul
all about me -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[Alecto]

Although I am currently in a relationship. I find it extremely difficult to keep friendships, or carry on conversations. Most of the problem for me is not know what to do or what to say. I love people, I love conversation. If something ever comes up which is extremely rare, (even with those I'm very close to) thats great. I fear that I will say something stupid or inappropriate, or may speak out of place or interupt some one.

I believe our social skills are learned very early in life. As a young child I was outgoing. I was constantly told by family, teachers, and other superiors to keep quiet. Everytime, it was "be quiet". Which I feel has affected me to this day. I feel maybe if they would have let me speak up more, even at that young age, I would have the vocabulary and social skills necessary to get through.

I am not sure how to develop more skills in becoming more social and a better conversationalist. As I am still trying to figure that out myself.

And sorry if this doesn't make much sense, as I am not good with words.

[spitzig]

Alecto said:

And sorry if this doesn't make much sense, as I am not good with words.

You seem fine with words. I've had no problem understanding you so far anyway.

[shylurker]

Alecto -- I relate to your story.

[Alecto]

Thank you.. I guess I just don't have confidence in my own writing skills

[spitzig]

Alecto said:

Thank you.. I guess I just don't have confidence in my own writing skills

Yeah, I got that. That was why I gave the reply. I've tried to give more (true) compliments particularly when I feel they will have a positive effect. I tended to think I've been bad with recieving and giving compliments. I tend to place little value on the compliments I recieve and don't think about giving them.

[max]

Solitary, you defintely have the skills necessary to carry on a conversation. Your post was too well-written to indicate a lack of communication skills. Perhaps you have more trouble with verbal as opposed to written communication, but the intelligence, command of the language and other skills are there.

So my suggestion would be: Since you have said you can carry on conversations regarding subjects that interest you, find more things that interest you, or find more people that share your interests. Perhaps join some sort of shooting club, participate in shooting competitions or join the local militia. (ok, I was half-joking about that last one).

As for learning the social skills, trial and error is the only way I know of. You can read books on interpersonal skills and conversation and look for places to apply the knowledge.

Have you considered group therapy? I just started with that, and even in the first few sessions I've already learned a few tricks. Plus, it's fun. I actually look forward to going because I know it's an environment where I can just say whatever the hell comes to mind and not have to worry about the consequences. You might consider it if you haven't given it a shot yet.

[CaryGrant]

Social skills can definitely be learned, and there are lots of books on the topic. One that has helped me is Shyness: A Bold New Approach by Bernardo Carducci. He also has a book on making small talk.

Yes, some - most - people develop these social skills at a young age as part of maturing. But they can always be learned. Like any skill, they require practice, and for shyness, steadily pushing past your fears. But it can be done - I'm much further ahead than I was even a few months ago.

[ASolitarySoul]

Guest-max said:

Solitary, you definitely have the skills necessary to
carry on a conversation. Your post was too well-written to indicate
a lack of communication skills. Perhaps you have more trouble with
verbal as opposed to written communication, but the intelligence,
command of the language and other skills are there.

Bingo - I have more trouble with verbal - with written (like this
forum), I have time to think about what I want to “say” before
I “say” it - I can organize my thoughts and present them in
a coherent manner - I can edit and re-edit my response until
I get everything the way I want it (and do it with Word Perfect
where I have a spell checker to keep me from looking like an
illiterate boob).

So my suggestion would be: Since you have said you can carry on
conversations regarding subjects that interest you, find more
things that interest you, or find more people that share your
interests. Perhaps join some sort of shooting club, participate
in shooting competitions or join the local militia. (ok, I was
half-joking about that last one).

My problem is that I don’t seem to be able to form an interest
in anything else - nothing else really appeals to me, and my
shooting-related activities takes up all of my free time.
(A few days ago, I spent the day melting down lead in a furnace
and casting several thousand bullets that I will eventually lubri-size
and load into cartridges. Cartridge loading is something that is
VERY time-consuming, both in terms of load development and production,
which is why it makes such a good hobby. On top of that, the end result
is a lot of very cheap ammo for shooting on a budget.)

This thread is oriented more towards social interaction with women
- with the goal of forming a LTR with a person of the attractive
female persuasion. There are VERY few women that have an interest
in the shooting sports, and most of them are repulsed by the thought
of going hunting - of killing animals for sport - ESPECIALLY the
types of women that would be able to function in a LTR with someone
like me (the shy, introverted types). My chances of finding someone
like that are soooo remote as to be an unrealistic expectation.

I made a post sometime ago to alt.support.shyness in which I
included a profile as to what my ideal soul-mate would be like:
“A clarification” tinyurl.com/coua

It’s not an impossibility that someone like that would exist
somewhere on planet Earth, it’s just that it would be nearly
impossible to find someone like that - who would still be
single and interested in getting involved with a total dork
such as myself.

I can’t fake an interest just to get a woman interested in me.

As for learning the social skills, trial and error is the only
way I know of. You can read books on interpersonal skills and
conversation and look for places to apply the knowledge.

Cary Grant suggested a book:
“Shyness: A Bold New Approach” by Bernardo Carducci

Maybe that’ll work for me - though my particular form of shyness
doesn’t emanate from fear of others.

Have you considered group therapy? I just started with that, and even
in the first few sessions I've already learned a few tricks. Plus,
it's fun. I actually look forward to going because I know it's an
environment where I can just say whatever the hell comes to mind and
not have to worry about the consequences. You might consider it if you
haven't given it a shot yet.

Group therapy - possibly.

Another problem that I have is that I have a truly remarkable talent
for pissing people off. One of the reasons why I keep to myself is that
I’m afraid that I’ll say something offensive to someone and get them mad
at me - I have a severe case of “Foot-in-mouth disease” (an old cattle
ranching joke).

As I stated before: I really don’t have a fear of others - I’m afraid
of myself, and what I might say to someone else - whenever I talk to
someone, I feel like I’m treading on eggshells, very self-conscious
of what I’m saying to them, and sometimes catching myself before
I say something stupid ... and sometimes I don’t catch myself,
and THOSE are the times when I REALLY hate being me.

Someone in alt.support.shyness suggested that I may have Asperger’s
Syndrome, and I’m going to get a professional evaluation soon
to confirm (or refute) that possibility.


Solitary Soul
all about me -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

CaryGrant said:

Social skills can definitely be learned, and there are lots of books on the topic. One that has helped me is Shyness: A Bold New Approach by Bernardo Carducci. He also has a book on making small talk.

Yes - social skills can be learned - but, in terms of my position,
I would say that I’m in the first grade, if not in Kindergarten.

I have a ways to go, and it will not be quick and easy - ESPECIALLY
if I want to get to the point that I can function in an intimate
relationship with a woman who would be considered typical in terms
of social development - as I stated in another post, finding a
woman who can function in a relationship with someone like me
as I am now would be next to impossible.

Yes, some - most - people develop these social skills at a young age as part of maturing. But they can always be learned. Like any skill, they require practice, and for shyness, steadily pushing past your fears. But it can be done - I'm much further ahead than I was even a few months ago.

I’ve made progress, but I wouldn’t call myself a social butterfly.
I can interact with people who carry on a conversation with me,
but I follow - I’m not good enough to lead - and heaven help
me if I get into a conversation with someone who can’t lead either.
THAT’S when things get awkward.


Solitary Soul
all about me -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[CaryGrant]

Ok, so your social skills are poor. What's the alternative to developing them?

Also, if you can't find ANYTHING that interests you except shooting, I think you're not trying hard enough. Sometimes the things we like to do take time to develop, just as some people grow on us over time.

Shy people tend to look for "instant chemistry," and I suspect you may be doing the same thing with interests. I used to be much like this; whenever anyone asked what I wanted to do, I honestly didn't know, and thought I didn't care. It took time, self-examination, and letting the pressure off myself, but gradually I became aware that I preferred certain clothing styles, colours, movies, people, and so on.