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Post by spitzig on Mar 19, 2004 20:47:14 GMT -5
You may guess where this places me in the nature/nurture argument. I've never thought one's outlook can change this radically - I feel like my fate indeed is fixed and there is no escaping it. Just because you are similar to your parents in this regard doesn't mean it is a "nature-thing". I've tended to think I learned the habits from my parents--and other not-so-fun self-esteem things that help me be more shy.
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Post by Jarous on Mar 20, 2004 7:31:47 GMT -5
My birthday celebration. No big thing, just my parents and sister, evening together, presents, eating, drinking, talking... I do so enjoy familly celebrations. Yet, I prefer to stay on the giving not receiving end. I appreciate the effort they took only for me - but how could I thank all of them? I feel like what they do for me is thousand times more to than what I can ever do for them. Also, I couldn't help feeling like everyone looks at me and expects me to make the celebration something special. Consequently I am incredibly tense and anxious even among my closest familly - which I am normally not. But in the end, the day is always great and something to remember fondly, something standing out from the mundane reality. How do I wish I could enjoy it to its full potential ...
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Mar 22, 2004 5:24:38 GMT -5
I'm pretty ok with birthdays. My birthday too. As long as I celebrate with a select group of people, like I always do. Whoa...hold it! Birthday celebration? It was your birthday? If so: [glow=red,2,300]Happy BELATED birthday![/glow] ;D
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Post by Jarous on Mar 22, 2004 15:41:00 GMT -5
Thanks Ghost. Yeah, my day was really neat - there could never be enough cakes though. And yours looks tasty...
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Post by spitzig on Mar 22, 2004 20:08:39 GMT -5
I'd not realized you meant your birthday was the 20th. I thought you were just speaking generally. Happy Birthday!
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Post by Jarous on Mar 23, 2004 1:23:55 GMT -5
I'd not realized you meant your birthday was the 20th. I thought you were just speaking generally. Happy Birthday! Thank you, spitzig. Actually, my brthday was the 17th - the celebration was postponed till the weekend. You brought something to my mind - many a time I try to talk to people but whatever I say about myself ends up as general or about people not me in particular. What is it? I'm surely not the most articulate person, yet I believe I can talk comprehensibly (do I write so?) enough. Or do just others presume I wouldn't talk about myself (after all I've hardly done so before) and interpret it as general statement? I don't need to add I don't have the guts to clarify and play along instead...
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Mar 23, 2004 7:44:16 GMT -5
there could never be enough cakes though. And yours looks tasty... There can never be enough cakes. Never *nods in gravely* I avoid questions about me on purpose. I don't feel like I have something to tell that I could feel good about or feel that it is worth anything to others. I know a co-worker who likes to brag about his preformance at school. I think he told it like everybody now. I believe I am reasonable at twisting the conversation so it is about something else. I sometimes feel a bit guilty that I do so distant, but I just don't always feel like playing nice and showing interest and talking along to please others. Also laying low makes ure I don't get on a subject that may enitiate a question I don't feel like answering (with some people it is easier to deflect a question and change subject then others). It depends how you talk Jarous. If you say things in a neutral way, people will not notice that you mean is as a opinion, or a own experience. They might perceieve it as a random comment. Just a wild guess though.
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Post by Jarous on Mar 23, 2004 14:07:02 GMT -5
I avoid questions about me on purpose. I've done so all of my life and never minded. But I've found out I have little choice in the matter - I couldn't do otherwise even if I try. I've met people I'd really want to tell about me but don't know how. Sad, that one. Do people toss around comments they don't actually mean? If I say something I mean it and I always supposed others take it that way too - am I mistaken then?
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Mar 24, 2004 3:50:50 GMT -5
People do sometimes say things because they are supposed to do that, or because their "role" requires that.
Perhaps they do know it is a personal comment...and you are mistaken? Maybe in one to one conversation it is easier for you to get yourself heard?
I am pretty clueless at this subject, I must admit.
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Post by spitzig on Mar 24, 2004 12:21:20 GMT -5
I don't know what context you are referring to. In addition to "roles", like saying the funny response whether it is true or not or saying what will make those around them happy, maybe they are not discussing personal experiences? Example: I go to a philosophy/religion discussion forum a lot. Often I put forth others' views, even if I disagree with them. If a poster says something illogical, I might argue against their faulty logic, even if I agree with the end result. These actions are often taken as me agreeing/disagreeing with the view/person.
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Post by Jarous on Mar 24, 2004 15:21:47 GMT -5
Maybe in one to one conversation it is easier for you to get yourself heard? Well, provided that I can get the words out of my mouth (breathing freely, articulating well, voice not skipping, you know what I mean), one-on-one conversations are better in many ways. I don't have to get my opinion into the gaps between the others' talks, there are less eyes upon me etc. The thing is, physical symtoms of SAD (blushing, sweating...) are much worse for me when I talk only with one person. Especially when sitting at a table pretty close to each other. I feel all that much better talking why on a walk. I do remember one time I was asked how I liked one of those social activities and it came to why I didn't dance at all. I answered both quite bluntly and 'unclearly' it wasn't that I would choose not to, I merely couldn't however I may try. Then I added I don't feel particularly comfortable when around large numbers of people I don't know. Plus the fact that I felt so out of place and not belonging. This was about the farthest I've ever gone telling non-shys about me. I intended to go on spilling the beans in full but ... they fell silent, it was so strange - I didn't feel awkward at all, it were my normally outgoing friends who seemed they'd rather be on a dentist's seat than there and then. I don't know how in the world I talked myself out of that but somehow I haven't said more about SA. I wished so badly to tell them and be done with it. Always there were fears I'd be looked down at as a social retard, ridiculed and avoided for the rest of my time. But so was a slim hope of understanding, acceptance and perhaps even forgiveness of all that I ought to have done and said and have neither done nor said. After that unsuccessful attempt I was mad at myself for not being atriculate enough to talk quickly and comprehensibly at the same time and not brave enough to see it to the end. But I've been a bit angry at my friends for being so blind too. For me at least, the truth is crystal clear. I wonder: don't they still have a clue? do they know but have no idea how to act? have they acepted me as I am, and are unwilling to admit I might be not happy with my 'conditions'? I've talked in a different thread about doing a school presentation about SAD. I am leaving my present school on the 12th May (if all goes well, that is). That means all my friends will be history by then. In theory, this fact should make it easier to tell them the truth. I couldn't leave a false image of myself behind. Eight years I haven't cared ... so little time remaining to change how they perceive me to be. For example, I am quite good at English. My teacher knows - day and night I want to beat my head on a wall for ever letting her find out. She expects me to actively participate, correct her mistakes (!) or add whatever I deem helpful. Needless to say I never do that. Unfortunately, when she supposes I am 'withholding' something, she asks. I can't lie, so I answer. This drives her crazy. I believe she thinks I consider myself her superior (which is not true) and am arrogant to condescend to work with her in the lessons. I couldn't leave her to that belief. It would haunt me for years to come. Even if I should write it, I wil tell her. Still I'd prefer to do this in one of the last lessons, with my mates and friends around.
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Post by Jarous on Mar 27, 2004 3:53:07 GMT -5
In past weeks I' ve done some 'discipline' training (read not postponing task till tomorrow) and some basic anti-anxiety activity (like not avoiding teachers' gaze, telling good morning to my friends calling them by their names - I've got no idea why this comes so hard, anyone feeling the same?). All of it can be done, though surely it's quite an effort and I can only hope it will get easier soon. I also do not feel any compulsion to continue and tend to skip time to time. I am not exactly organised in my efforts, which does not help either. I hope if I write what I strive to achieve down I'll feel obliged to do so as to keep my 'integrity.' Basically, this is what I do EVERY day: - Jog. Every morning or in the evening if I need to get early to school. This is the major discipline task for although I genuinely enjoy running I so easily do other enjoyable (and more lazy-friendly) stuff instead.
- NO junk food. Unhealthy, expensive, not necessarily more tasty than say fruits... Still, it takes so much self-denial and discipline to refuse the snack...
- No baths. Showering can get the job done more quickly and economicly. I can squeeze a lot of useful activity into a day in this way.
- Shave every day. No, not every other day, not even when I feel it's needed. Nice way to keep in a routine.
- Study every day. With my final exams approaching fast I am really scared how laid-back I am about them. Some of my peers have already done ammounts of study I cannot get into half a year, I'd better narrow the gap betwen us.
- Greetings. No more pretending I've not seen them, no more quick, under-the-breath 'hi.' Look them in the eyes (albeit briefly) and say a nice 'hello, *insert a name here*' perhaps even try to build some smalltalk from there.
Well, they're more but these will suffice for posting.
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Post by CaryGrant on Mar 27, 2004 10:22:17 GMT -5
Good job, Jarous! Speaking from experience, it does get easier. I find it's usually easy to start something like looking people in the eye and saying 'hi', then gets harder and stays hard for awhile, and at some point I realise it hasn't been hard for some time!
You're definitely on the right track, though, in writing things down, building discipline, forgiving yourself for days off or lapses, and setting concrete goals. We are our habits, I believe Aristotle said, and it is as true today as it was then.
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Post by Jarous on Mar 27, 2004 11:26:55 GMT -5
Not so, not yet at least. When I can do that for a year, or a decade, I will congratulate myself. I tried something similar in the past (well before learning about SAD) and although I succeeded in the beginning the initial momentum got lost after a couple of months. What's even worse, I was left feeling like nothing I'd done mattered and there was no point or good doing pretty much anything constructive. I ended in the longest depression of my life. I reclaimed my interest in life after accidentaly visiting this forum (truely chance rules our lives) but even then I couldn't get back on track. I am positive though that I can do it now. The most daunting task is getting back into the state I was in before the depression kicked in (yes, in many respects I am worse off than in the past) because you don't see the progress you're making but the time you've 'lost.'
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Ghost
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Post by Ghost on Mar 27, 2004 14:26:05 GMT -5
But I've been a bit angry at my friends for being so blind too. For me at least, the truth is crystal clear. Perhaps shy people are more observant, sensetive about the people around us and pick sooner or frequent up when something is out of order, or not normal behavior for that person. I have noticed that whenever I dropped hints (and not always small ones..like that I once started a conversation about SA), that people just don't seem to get it (until I start to shout and scream..but that ain't pretty). Maybe we have kept too long a fake face for them that everything is alright, that they can't recognize when we mean business and show the truth. People prefer to think everything is happy and cool. They don't really want to know when something is not right with a person. Sure, the sorrows and misery on the news about things is not bad, maybe even entertaining for some, but that is all far away from them. When it comes up close and personal, emphasis at the personal part as in family or friends, they don't like it wand want to forget and ignore, if there is a possibility and not think about it. There are exceptions, but this is how some people deal with the problems of others: ignore and pretend it isn't there, or never happened. It will probably pass. Unless you keep contact. If you want to maintain contact with any of them. It is brave of you that you want to open up about SA. I encourage you to go for it. What's even worse, I was left feeling like nothing I'd done mattered and there was no point or good doing pretty much anything constructive. I felt the same way. But with me it was more choking fear of failure that got me to the pit of that life was pointless to me. But I fought and am better. And will get better. Really? Strange. The online contacts has served as the major cause that speeded up my process to a break down. As example; I have been to a SA forum, where a SA member wanted to email me. I should've known better and not be open to any contact. The member wrote only a few lines and asked about me. After two messages, the member who also took medication for SA I read at the forum, told me I was "too weird" for him. Strange enough it didn't did me too much. It was humorous and sad ironic. That person was probably just blunt honest. A few other shy's did something else. Not major, but something that is not very correct and made me feel like I don't matter that much. That learned me that if I expected any empathy of someone with anxiety too, I was wrong. I think I might even like people without SA more then the shy ones, because at least I can excuse their behavior. People online are overall not that great. I think I will in the near future cut off ties online. That's the spirit
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