Should Scotland leave the UK?

[CharlotteGirl]

I posted this on SAS a while ago. Don't know, it would be sad, raises all kinds of
complex issues such as whether Scots would still have the
BBC.

But they've had devolution for years now, perhaps would be good for
Scotland to get right away from the (at least currently) pretty extreme right wing UK government. Having less Scottish influence could make
England an even more neoliberal hole, but might make
English people question society more. I think they're going to vote yes
in the referendum anyway, could be wrong.

[Sexy Spork #37]

Genuinely couldn't give a damn. I think that's the case for most Englanders. You look at the polls with 'don't care' as an option, it's certainly the one most people go for.

Certainly affects northern Englanders like myself a damn sight more than southerners who'll hardly feel any affect.

For example, currency. Scotland will not be allowed to keep pound sterling. But there are a massive number of towns on or near the border whose trade is primarily Scottish or certainly a large number of Scots. If you look at Ireland, where they have two currencies, it's a nightmare for businesses.

The BBC did a report on this where they went to Ireland and all the businesses they spoke to said it was a nightmare. They have dual pricing and you can pay in either currency but it's a nightmare with conversion and the times and amounts you can convert. It really has a negative affect on many businesses. And the businesses on the Anglo-Scots border have said they simply won't tolerate it.

It will affect the public because we'll have to carry around two currencies, as not all shops, as is the case in Ireland, will take dual currency because it's such a hassle.

Apart from that, I don't really care.

Everyone has the right to self-determination and nobody has a right to tell Scotland they can or can't have that choice.

It's a fundamental human right.

And I, for one, am fed up of the Conservatives doing all they can to make the prospect of an independent Scotland unattractive, such as not letting them keep the currency.

Now Cornish and Welsh independence is another issue...

[Astroruss]

Nah, I don't think Scotland should leave. Yall have been one united kingdom for three hundred years now, and it doesn't make sense to break up a successful union.

This kind of issue came up once with Ulster as well, if I remember reading about some years ago during the height of the IRA movement in the 70's. Some of the people wanted to join with Ireland, but most wanted to stay with UK. In the interests of a split vote, the best decision was to maintain the status quo. Separating from UK would have sparked a real civil war, not just the IRA versus the RUC. That was peanuts compared to what would have happened otherwise.

The Scottish parliament should make the final decision, of course, but I expect they'll vote to stay in. As far as accepting the pound or eurodollar as currency, come on! That's no reason to separate! And Scottish debt would be rather high without UK's finances to back it up, so likely it looks like an independent Scots govt would have to default on it's debt and bankrupt, driving them to poverty.

I know independence sounds like a good idea (this is a very, very old story btw) but newly independent nations always have huge financial problems that sometimes they can't survive. And the dual currency thing is something to consider but can be manageable. In Texas we do it with the Mexican peso, even if it isn't worth a damn to begin with.

With regards to having a Tory parliament in London right now, well, in my opinion that's exactly what you need after so many years of Labour chaotic spending and unchecked immigration. Labour's policies all sound good in theory, bu they are very expensive and inefficient to carry out. (We're going through something very similar right now over here.) The NHS alone wastes money like a leaking loo that won't stop flushing and needs to be reformed and checked out. You also have upwards of 300,000 immigrants a year migrating into UK from europe, more than half Arabic or Indian, and most of which stay in the cities putting a lot of pressure on existing services. A small nation like yall cannot handle too much unchecked influx of new people indefintely, most of which won't assimilate well in the first generation.

[Sexy Spork #37]

The British government have stated that they would not allow Scotland to keep pound sterling as part of a separation deal, that is, if Scotland decides to leave, we aint letting them go until they ditch our currency. It's the government's attempt to stop them leaving. But yes, if Scotland leaves, it's highly likely they'll adopt the Euro, and the Euro is not legal tender in England. You can only use English pound sterling. You can't even use Scottish, Welsh or Irish pound sterling here.

Matters get more complicated when you consider the EU. Fact is, an overwhelming majority here want out, and we are getting an independence vote on whether to leave or not in a few years time. And right now, it's looking pretty good for us securing our freedom from tyranny. But Scotland is against that. They want to be in the EU. We won't be getting that vote until after the next general election, and our Labour leader has said, 'Vote for us, we won't have a vote on EU', as a way to force Scotland to stay with us. Because they're the only people who vote for Labour. Without Scotland, Labour can't win the election. Labour says, 'Oh, we love Scotland, we aren't bullies like the Conservatives, we would stay in the shiny EU', but really, they just want votes.

The Scottish election is going to be fascinating, but it will be down to Labour and the EU. It's all very messy and manipulative. The Conservatives and Labour are both at it. But if you could see the amount of Labour rally's in Scotland in recent months, it's fairly obvious their gaining ground.

It's a massive knife edge.

The union is not a success. The majority here agree, we are a disunited kingdom. We haven't been a union in years. It's not working. Scotland wants out, Wales wants out, Cornwall wants out and have already declared independence, and I feel really sorry for Northern Ireland, caught up in all this. The south of England is a radically different country to the north, we share nothing in common. We really have a deep hatred for one another that can't be fixed. And even the north is divided. Territories so different they are completely separate countries with different dialects. It's fractured beyond repair. So yeah, let Scotland decide. Wouldn't feel like a loss because they haven't felt like a part of the UK for a very long time in the eyes of the majority of the rest of us.

We're okay like this. It might sound quite sad, that we aren't united, but it isn't. We're quite happy in our individual bubbles. It's the only UK I've ever known and I don't have a problem with that. You can't fix what can't be fixed. The damage is done.

Scotland can go it alone. I think they'll be fine. I think this would be the first democratic split of a country in history, so, yeah, I think we'll still support them and won't let them fall. If it is the first, it hasn't happened before so how do we know what'll come of it?

It's all new.

[Astroruss]

I thought you didn’t care about it, Spork.

Nah, Scotland still shouldn’t leave. Scotland was a very fractured and divided country even before it joined with Britain, so that’s not a valid reason to leave. Scottish desire for independence is not a new situation; it is a centuries old problem, dating back all the way to Edward I, maybe even earlier. I know yall Brits don’t like the monarchial history, but it can’t be ignored. Whenever Scotland was on its own, internal problems between regions deepened, clan factions caused strife, crime and poverty were rampant, and Scotland was always prone to invasions. Not to mention Scotland couldn’t feed its own population, with millions of émigrés leaving as a result. There are more descendents living out of the highlands now than are in it.

Separating for political reasons, well, it may sound like a good idea now but history has proven this false too. It isn’t the first democratic split in history, not by a long shot. The confederate states of America tried this too, and we see how well that worked out. The USSR states tried to keep together as the CIS in the 90’s, but that didn’t work either. Lesotho separated from South Africa, and South Sudan from North Sudan.

But look at the results! Each separated nation tends to fall apart internally, often over silly reasons too. Civil wars and ethnic disputes arise. Age old problems that had long ago been handled. The asian countries separated from the USSR are plagued by internal disputes, often over religious and ethnic differences, and totalitarian systems result.

I understand southern Britain is much different from the north, but dissolution from the UK is not a solution to these current problems and differences. You should stay together and work out your problems.

[Grayback]

Here's a video discussing this very topic

[Sexy Spork #37]

Ha, I watched that episode earlier today. Worth a watch. Incredibly funny. The look on his face when he couldn't manage the whisky...

Aww. Bless.

Three days to go. Gonna be tight.