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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 2, 2007 17:58:16 GMT -5
Has anyone else read the book The Sociopath Next Door (by Martha Stout)?
The book basically tries to answer the question of what a sociopath is, what consious is, why we choose conscious even though it seems cause issues, and more.
The book flows well and - even though the topic is not particulary a happy one - ends on a very positive note.
I'm going to throw out a couple pieces of info / ideas from the book as well as a thought or two of my own.
Sociopaths have no conscious.
It's hard for people with conscious to imagine people without conscious... (not unlike how we find non-shy people not being able to comprehend shyness).
1 in 20 people is a sociopath.
I'd hazard a guess that a sociopath would generally be much more damanging to a socially anxious person than other people.
Very good book. I'd definatley recommend it.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 2, 2007 18:34:48 GMT -5
Has anyone else read the book The Sociopath Next Door (by Martha Stout)? The book basically tries to answer the question of what a sociopath is, what consious is, why we choose conscious even though it seems cause issues, and more. The book flows well and - even though the topic is not particulary a happy one - ends on a very positive note. I'm going to throw out a couple pieces of info / ideas from the book as well as a thought or two of my own. Sociopaths have no conscious. It's hard for people with conscious to imagine people without conscious... (not unlike how we find non-shy people not being able to comprehend shyness). 1 in 20 people is a sociopath. I'd hazard a guess that a sociopath would generally be much more damanging to a socially anxious person than other people. Very good book. I'd definatley recommend it. i haven't read it yet, but i've heard of it. 1 in 20 people has no conscience? holy shit! that's way too many! but then...hmmm...this might explain alot....  |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 2, 2007 22:31:17 GMT -5
i was just reading wikipedia on sociopaths. i was wondering about that statistic cuz it seemed scarily high. (wiki said 5.8% btw, still high.) i found this list of characteristics at one site: Charming, Intelligent, Complimentary, Confident, Caring, Generous, Affectionate, Convincing. however they have some bad habits: Compulsive liar, promiscuous, selfish, manipulative. so i guess there's worse things than a lack of confidence, eh?  i also found a list of traits of victims of sociopaths on another site: A belief that if you love enough the person will change A belief that if you love enough the relationship will succeed Difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries Not being able to say no Being easily influenced by others Wanting to be rescued from your life situation Wanting to rescue others from their distress Being over nurturing particularly when not asked Feelings of shame and self doubt Low self esteem A lack of memories about childhood or periods of adulthood Shyness Difficulty communicating A lack of self confidence Wanting to please A lack of motivation from within and being motivated by what others want uh oh...  www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/victims.htm |
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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 3, 2007 6:52:24 GMT -5
(wiki said 5.8% btw, still high.) 5.8% = (5.8 in 100) = (1.16 in 20) ... rounded down, this is 1 in 20.  However, that is 'higher' enough to note. 1 in 20 would equate to 4 in 100. 5.8% would mean near 6 in every 100. Notion from the book (re-expressed from my head): Sociopaths can't love and have little regard for people other than as a tool, thus they see life as a game and usually manipulate people (whether just their wife / kids or a whole corporation full). They will be nice to you only if it helps them hide their sociopathy and/or helps them succeed. They will otherwise ignore you unless you get in their way or appear as competition. If you do get in the way or appear as competition, they will break you down and destroy you. (Another idea from the book is that peoples' deaths mean little to them - sometimes they are happy if it removes an obstacle). Charming, Intelligent, Complimentary, Confident, Caring, Generous, Affectionate, Convincing. If a sociopath and I were competing for a girl. The sociopath would win. Seriously. This is probably something to think about when you're looking for that magic... However, there'd have to be reason for the sociopath to charm you... There's one story in the book related to this. (And I'll leave it open for those who read ). Compulsive liar, promiscuous, selfish, manipulative. The book talks about how there's not an easy way to identify a sociopath. (In fact, a handful of the attributes tested for in the sociopath test are traits we think are positive in the US). Interestingly the book identies one feature that most sociopaths use at one time or another. That is pity - making others feel bad for them - because we with conscious tend never to bash someone when they are down and further feel empathy for them (even if they don't deserve it). so i guess there's worse things than a lack of confidence, eh? The book does a really good job of helping us understand why we'd rather have conscious than not. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 3, 2007 12:48:30 GMT -5
(wiki said 5.8% btw, still high.) 5.8% = (5.8 in 100) = (1.16 in 20) ... rounded down, this is 1 in 20. However, that is 'higher' enough to note. 1 in 20 would equate to 4 in 100. 5.8% would mean near 6 in every 100. haha...you're such a geek. ;D yeah, i knew that. what i meant was that i was checking to see if other sources placed it as high as your book, and apparently they all run around 4 - 6 out of every hundred. the thing is...from what i've read...sociopathy runs on a spectrum, so people are being counted who may just have strong potential for the really crazy sociopathic behavior. basically, it's a style or pattern of thinking. on one end of the spectrum you find people who are capable of changing this style of thinking, and on the other end they are very committed to this style of thinking. so i feel a bit better about the high numbers knowing that. at the link i posted, i found that there is evidence that when parents divorce... and one parent alienates a child from the other parent...this sociopathic style tends to develop in the child. It's called Parent Alienation Syndrome. of course, it just makes common sense that a child should not be alienated from either parent, but now there's evidence that it can do serious harm long-term to the healthy development of the child. but i wonder why there's so many more male sociopaths than female sociopaths...usually they say when there's a significant difference between male and female expression of a trait, there may be a genetic factor involved. i saw a mention of an evolved strategy by which a type of parisitic human developed that basically lives off the other type of human that has a conscience. sociopathy is an interesting topic, and one that...ironically...only got a cursory going-over when i was in school majoring in psych. |
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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 3, 2007 13:14:25 GMT -5
the thing is...from what i've read...sociopathy runs on a spectrum, so people are being counted who may just have strong potential for the really crazy sociopathic behavior. Ah, I had wondered about that quite a bit (since things tend not to be black-and-white). At first the author said the stat as the percent of people with 'antisocial personality disorder', but later used it with the term socipoaths... at the link i posted, i found that there is evidence that when parents divorce... and one parent alienates a child from the other parent...this sociopathic style tends to develop in the child. It's called Parent Alienation Syndrome. of course, it just makes common sense that a child should not be alienated from either parent, but now there's evidence that it can do serious harm long-term to the healthy development of the child. Ah, very interesting. The author discussed a related situation where babies who don't have enough contact from their parents have some crazy (sometimes 'evil-esque') issues. She correlated it to some extent, but did not link it directly as a cause (possibly only because it was unknown). but i wonder why there's so many more male sociopaths than female sociopaths...usually they say when there's a significant difference between male and female expression of a trait, there may be a genetic factor involved. The author's conclusion was that there is probably a mixture of genetic and situational reaons for the sociopathy to occur. (She discusses studies used to try to determine if a given trait is genetic or not). sociopathy is an interesting topic, and one that...ironically...only got a cursory going-over when i was in school majoring in psych. Same here, I don't recall what was discussed about sociopathy during my psych classes... However, I am probably more prepared now to comprehend it. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Sept 3, 2007 19:23:41 GMT -5
I would think that many executives are sociopaths.
As for why more men have it, my purely unprofessional guess would be that it is an expression of aggression and males have more testosterone and tend to be more aggressive. I think society supports sociopathic traits in men.
Or maybe women aren't labeled that even though they may have it or because they have and show emotions about it.
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Post by phoenixferret on Sept 3, 2007 19:51:39 GMT -5
I would think that many executives are sociopaths. As for why more men have it, my purely unprofessional guess would be that it is an expression of aggression and males have more testosterone and tend to be more aggressive. I think society supports sociopathic traits in men. Or maybe women aren't labeled that even though they may have it or because they have and show emotions about it. Yeah, about the executives, heh... I feel like the statistics are believable in general, too. There are a lot of people who when I try to get inside their heads, I just start to realize that something isn't working in them the way it works in me and in most people I know (all the ones I like, lol). About the women, yeah--I don't think a female sociopath would take the same route as a male sociopath, which would be the route that might make it more obvious and get her labeled. A man with a big grin, a firm handshake, a self-posessed, even loner attitude, and an assertive/aggressive manner is more often going to come across as being the epitome of the manly go-get-'em type, and that will attract people to him. A female with a similar personality doesn't command the same respect--in fact, she may get people snickering behind her back for her "masculine" presumptions. Assuming that a sociopath would have learnt those "game rules," however, and have that figured out, a female sociopath would avoid work at projecting competence in more socially normal spheres--so instead of coming across as brimming with confidence and capability, she might opt for a more feminine guise that will better enable her to get what she wants. A good-looking, "high maintenance" woman, or a moocher with a sugar daddy doesn't immediately ring the "sociopath" alarm bells (at least for me) as much as the image of the suspiciously charming, female-with-low-self-esteem-courting male, but underneath it all, both could fit the sociopath profile--they'd just both be playing the gender angle differently and to their own advantage. There's the whole thing with male spousal abuse versus female spousal abuse, for instance as well--in which it's really tough to be sure if men are really as much more inclined to violence as the evidence seems to accuse, or if women are just less likely do much physical damage, more likely to resort to emotional abuse, less likely to be reported due to social expectations and repercussions for the men calling the police on their women, etc. Ok, that was fun...  Now back to work. |
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Post by k151 on Sept 3, 2007 22:58:26 GMT -5
Interestingly the book identies one feature that most sociopaths use at one time or another. That is pity - making others feel bad for them - because we with conscious tend never to bash someone when they are down and further feel empathy for them (even if they don't deserve it). OK that's it, the kid that bullied me non-stop in elementary school was/is a sociopath. I'm not kidding. I could be reduced to tears and he would still keep at it. I once asked WHY he constantly bullied me. His response was "Because it's fun". I could never, no matter what kind of person I'm talking about, continue bashing someone when they are down and crying. The action of making them cry would be enough to make me think "oh goddddd what have I done?" I should read this book, it sounds interesting. |
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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 4, 2007 1:19:24 GMT -5
I would think that many executives are sociopaths. A while back, there were a few news articles on how corporations are a breeding ground for sociopaths. Corporations provide a huge playing field that awards such types. Still, as the book points out, many sociopaths don't go far and tend to lead pitiful small lives abusing only people local to them (family or children). I could never, no matter what kind of person I'm talking about, continue bashing someone when they are down and crying. The action of making them cry would be enough to make me think "oh goddddd what have I done?" Interestingly, this is a key feature of non-sociopaths that sociopaths prey on. That is, sociopaths often play on other peoples' ability to feel pity. I should read this book, it sounds interesting. I recommend it. I found it intreguing, insightful, and very thought provoking. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Sept 4, 2007 22:04:36 GMT -5
Do you think a lot of people who post here are sociopaths?
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 4, 2007 22:30:51 GMT -5
Do you think a lot of people who post here are sociopaths? hmmmmm.....  |
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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 5, 2007 2:54:24 GMT -5
Do you think a lot of people who post here are sociopaths? I'd suspect very few, if any. (There's actually one person I wonder about, however). |
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Post by littledarling on Sept 5, 2007 9:29:04 GMT -5
Hmm, there's one person I wonder about, too . . . I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up in prison one way or the other. O.o;;;
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Post by jaeksmith on Sept 5, 2007 10:01:00 GMT -5
Hmm, there's one person I wonder about, too . . . I'd go as far as to say I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up in prison one way or the other. O.o;;; There was a funny statement in the book, something like: The difference between a sociopath and a criminal is that the sociopath doesn't get caught. One reason might be that many sociopaths tend not to do out-right-illegal so much as unconscionable acts. Edit: Spelling errors. |
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Now back to work. 