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Post by iroseiroared2 on Jul 18, 2004 5:18:46 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
Recently I made a post about how I feel dull at work and about a guy I like. Well I'd like to elaborate a bit though, just hear me out.
I want to know if this is just low self-esteem or there are really things wrong with me, if I'm really stupid.
No matter what area of life it is, I feel I am not as good as the majority. The only people I feel ok around are my friends because I have some different interests than they do, so if I don't know a lot about a certain thing, they can't put me down about it cuz they don't know anything about it themselves.
But, for example: People always seem to be talking about politics; however, I think my 12 year old brother knows more about that area than I do, and I'm almost double his age. That just makes me look outright ignorant. And a lot of things in general that people know, it seems like I don't. I know I'm intelligent, but I feel I'm lacking knowledge in lots of areas.
It gets even worse though. So people may ask what my interests are. Ok. I like to go to concerts, play guitar, draw, write, and I'm interested in healing myself and become a happy individual (ironic, right). But when I mention the music I listen to, there are only a few bands I like. Everyone else seems to have this thorough knowledge of music and I just seem lame when my responses come out. If I'm talking to the people who don't listen to music much, it doesn't matter.. but then there's no room for conversation on that topic anyway. But if it's with someone who knows a lot about it, I feel intimidated. I'm in between.. I don't know everything but I don't know absolutely nothing, either. So then they ask me about guitar. Well I haven't actually really practiced in years. So I can't go show off to anyone on my great playing abilities. They want to see my artwork, but I have nothing to show but old high school paintings. Etc.,etc.
The point is that there is a lot I am interested in but all I have done since I got out of high school was sit around my room and work at a pointless job, with the exception of hanging out with friends occasionally. That's it. I've never made any effort to improve myself, and I've never even made the effort to get the fuck up and do the things I enjoy. With the exception of going to concerts of the few bands I enjoy.
Now I have this guy I like. But I'm afraid he'll think I'm lame because of the music I listen to.. that he'll think I'm a poser because I say I like art, yet know nothing about it. And even worse, I feel extremely uncomfortable around his friends. I could never bare to hang out with him and his friends if I ever had to. Some of them used to work with me, and they thought I was lame. I think he's the only one in the bunch who actually thinks I'm cool. But then, is it a necessity to hang out with your guy's friends along with him?
People will say to get up off my ass and do something about it. But does that mean that right now I am less of a person until I do something about it? And I am less of a person because I lack the knowledge about things other people know? Does it mean that I should not get a boyfriend until I am able to prove to him I can do stuff? Does that mean I am pure shit right now?
I need someone to help me feel better about myself. For some reason, I cannot help always thinking that the rest of the world around me is better in everyway I can think. I cannot stop the nagging feeling that I am just not good enough. It will just not go away. I need to know if I'm just not good enough for other people or a boyfriend right now.
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Post by Michael1973 on Jul 18, 2004 10:27:02 GMT -5
I can very easily relate to this. I am always known as the quiet one because I hardly ever say anything. When I was younger, it was because I was simply too terrified to talk. Now it's because no matter what the conversation is about, I can't think of a thing to say.
Most people I know are big sports fans, and that subject can dominate an entire conversation for hours. I do not follow sports, and have little or no knowledge or opinion on the subject. Hence, I'm forced to sit in silence while everyone else goes on and on. Same with other popular subjects, politics (to use your example) being another one.
Meanwhile, the things I'm interested in talking about, nobody else seems to like or care about. Or I'm simply uncomfortable bringing them up for whatever reason. Makes life infinitely harder.
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brogo
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Post by brogo on Aug 16, 2004 0:52:27 GMT -5
The best thing to do is read articles on things you would "like" to learn more about. Surf the internet about politics; try to develop an acute interest in it if it bugs you that much. Read the local newspapers and magazines on occasions. I hate politics but I also hate how the current president is handling the economy, job growth, war, social security, etc. Those are the things I am interested in.
Listen to the radio more that plays your "favorite bands" and try to learn new bands and old bands that you even "somewhat like." When you hear your friends chatting about this band, surf the net and try to find the popular song they talked about. Download it and listen to it. The bottom line is to do your research. It shouldn’t have be homework if you have the desire to learn more to begin with.
As for Michael, you don't like SPORTS?!?! Do you even have a measly ounce of 'competitiveness,' 'aggressiveness' or 'testosterone’ in you? You don’t like the athletic, rare, hard to do feats that just make you sit back and think/say, “That was amazing!” or “holy-sh*t.” You don’t like athletic collaboration, teamwork, or enjoy the shear togetherness and motivation of the entire crowd chanting things like, “defense – defense” in an ELIMINATION game? You don’t want to picture yourself inside the shoes of athlete (much like people pretend they are Rock stars and maybe even Movie Actors/Actresses) and pretend that you are/can accomplish these amazing feats? You don’t wish you were over 7 feet tall like Shaq and can dunk on anyone 1 on 1 at will? You aren’t physically capable enough to compete and do some damage or a$s kicking against friends/acquaintances/strangers? These things and MORE is what interest me in sports. If you answered no to ALL of these then, well, grow some balls -- I just can’t put it a nicer way.
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Post by Michael1973 on Aug 16, 2004 9:30:03 GMT -5
Not to be nasty or anything, but it's talk like that which gives people like us low self-esteem..........
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Post by sushiboat on Aug 16, 2004 9:46:28 GMT -5
As for Michael, you don't like SPORTS?!?! Do you even have a measly ounce of 'competitiveness,' 'aggressiveness' or 'testosterone’ in you? You don’t like the athletic, rare, hard to do feats that just make you sit back and think/say, “That was amazing!” or “holy-sh*t.” You don’t like athletic collaboration, teamwork, or enjoy the shear togetherness and motivation of the entire crowd chanting things like, “defense – defense” in an ELIMINATION game? You don’t want to picture yourself inside the shoes of athlete (much like people pretend they are Rock stars and maybe even Movie Actors/Actresses) and pretend that you are/can accomplish these amazing feats? You don’t wish you were over 7 feet tall like Shaq and can dunk on anyone 1 on 1 at will? You aren’t physically capable enough to compete and do some damage or a$s kicking against friends/acquaintances/strangers? These things and MORE is what interest me in sports. If you answered no to ALL of these then, well, grow some balls -- I just can’t put it a nicer way. If you can't put it in a nicer way, you should have kept your mouth shut. "Grow some balls?" That's completely out of line. I enjoy playing sports, but watching sports is low on my list. I know enough to ask reasonable questions. I would rather talk about the things I do, not the things I watch other people do. If someone is so obsessed with sports that he/she can't stand people who aren't, then I know it's time to move on.
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brogo
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Post by brogo on Aug 16, 2004 14:57:25 GMT -5
Not to be nasty or anything, but it's talk like that which gives people like us low self-esteem.......... Hey I was merely just trying to get you more interested in sports. No I don't believe that self-esteem is related to shyness. I think either you inherited introvert genes or not. I have good physical and intellectual self-esteem yet I am still a quite and shy guy; that is just my nature – something I can change to a degree but never to the effect of being a full blown loud-mouthed extrovert.
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brogo
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Post by brogo on Aug 16, 2004 15:13:02 GMT -5
If you can't put it in a nicer way, you should have kept your mouth shut. "Grow some balls?" That's completely out of line. Who are you my mother? You don’t tell me what I can and cannot say. Besides, I was merely putting an exclamation point on why you SHOULD at least like watching sports a little bit. You do not have to be obsessed with sports but you should know something about it if you want to talk to typical 18 to 34 year old males. Deal with it. I enjoy playing sports, but watching sports is low on my list. I know enough to ask reasonable questions. I would rather talk about the things I do, not the things I watch other people do. If someone is so obsessed with sports that he/she can't stand people who aren't, then I know it's time to move on. Yes playing sports is fun and it is at many times better than watching sports. Yes I agree it is better to boast about one’s own personal athletic achievements than others. However, if it’s raining outside and/or you are not with people at the gym – especially in important games down the stretch of the season, why would you not be interested in watching sports if you “claim” to like sports? Besides, it is much easier to pick up the clicker and turn on the game than it is to organize a real game of basketball, football, or whatever.
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Aug 16, 2004 18:30:20 GMT -5
Not to be nasty or anything, but it's talk like that which gives people like us low self-esteem.......... Ditto. Lame Duck, that was very mean of you to say. Not everyone likes the same things. And I don't think that just because you're guy means that you have to like sports. And you don't think that a low self-esteem can contribute to shyness? Wow, you've got a lot to learn. Like the old say goes, "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all."
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Aug 16, 2004 18:38:41 GMT -5
Hey I was merely just trying to get you more interested in sports. No I don't believe that self-esteem is related to shyness. I think either you inherited introvert genes or not. I have good physical and intellectual self-esteem yet I am still a quite and shy guy; that is just my nature – something I can change to a degree but never to the effect of being a full blown loud-mouthed extrovert. Oh, and are you sure you are shy? Just because you might be quiet and reserved by nature doesn't mean that you are shy. Does being around people make you nervous? If not, then I don't think you'd be considered shy, at least not in my opinion. Generally speaking, I would think that all shy people have at least a somewhat low self-esteem if they're nervous around people.
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Post by GreenFerret on Aug 16, 2004 19:26:14 GMT -5
You tell 'im, Sushiboat! You are absolutely right; you're a sports fan deserving of respect; Lame Duck is not. Strawberry Sweetie: excellent points! Michael1973: I'm truly sorry you had to be exposed to a person like Lame Duck. Most people here aren't like that.
Lame Duck: you're a jerk, plain and simple, if you think it's even half okay to post something as rude and unintelligent as what you did. Hmmm, I read your signature... if you could just talk to girls, you'd have a girlfriend by now, huh? Ha, I seriously doubt that, judging from the personality you've displayed through your posts. And as for not being able to talk to girls in the first place: why don't you stop living in your dream-world of sports in which you are Shaq or something; and instead of fantasizing you have some, "grow some balls" of your own and go talk to those big old scary females?! What, it's not that easy you say? It has nothing to do with being masculine or not?? Guess what, not enjoying watching sports doesn't make you any less masculine than an inability to converse with the opposite sex. So think about that, next time you feel like sharing your "wisdom" with us.
And if you can spout the kind of crap that you have, other people on this forum are well within reason in telling you to shut up. No-one is interested in your own (undeservedly) high opinion of yourself; most of the people on this site have major problems with low self esteem that stem from being shy. If you think telling people they're emasculate for not drooling over sports stars is a good way to help people, I think you've got the wrong forum.
Michael1973, I agree whole-heartedly: it's people like Lame Duck who make it difficult to enjoy life by putting everyone into two categories: people like himself, who are good; and people different from him, who are to be ridiculed for having something so obviously wrong with them that they don't act like he does. I don't think there is a more contemptible personality type to have. I generally think the best of people until they prove definitively otherwise, and I must say that in three short posts, Lame Duck has managed to cross that line and show himself to be a truly inconsiderate and revolting human being. You're not a loud-mouth, you say, Lame Duck? Maybe you'll be pleased to hear that it sounds as though you are, underneath your supposedly reserved nature, one of the biggest loudmouth a**holes I've heard of. Congratulations on that feat. You do not deserve to have it put any more nicely than that.
Maybe I should have/could have been more mature and calm in this post, as Sushiboat and Strawberry Sweetie were able to do (I admire you two!); but I simply cannot stand people who put down other people for no reason at all. They deserve to be dragged through the streets and publicly flogged for the feelings of low self-worth that they perpetuate. Especially if they dare to do it in a forum as excellent and supportive as Shy United.
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brogo
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Post by brogo on Aug 16, 2004 22:19:11 GMT -5
You tell 'im, Sushiboat! You are absolutely right; you're a sports fan deserving of respect; Lame Duck is not. Strawberry Sweetie: excellent points! Michael1973: I'm truly sorry you had to be exposed to a person like Lame Duck. Most people here aren't like that. Lame Duck: you're a jerk, plain and simple, if you think it's even half okay to post something as rude and unintelligent as what you did. Hmmm, I read your signature... if you could just talk to girls, you'd have a girlfriend by now, huh? Ha, I seriously doubt that, judging from the personality you've displayed through your posts. And as for not being able to talk to girls in the first place: why don't you stop living in your dream-world of sports in which you are Shaq or something; and instead of fantasizing you have some, "grow some balls" of your own and go talk to those big old scary females?! What, it's not that easy you say? It has nothing to do with being masculine or not?? Guess what, not enjoying watching sports doesn't make you any less masculine than an inability to converse with the opposite sex. So think about that, next time you feel like sharing your "wisdom" with us. And if you can spout the kind of crap that you have, other people on this forum are well within reason in telling you to shut up. No-one is interested in your own (undeservedly) high opinion of yourself; most of the people on this site have major problems with low self esteem that stem from being shy. If you think telling people they're emasculate for not drooling over sports stars is a good way to help people, I think you've got the wrong forum. Michael1973, I agree whole-heartedly: it's people like Lame Duck who make it difficult to enjoy life by putting everyone into two categories: people like himself, who are good; and people different from him, who are to be ridiculed for having something so obviously wrong with them that they don't act like he does. I don't think there is a more contemptible personality type to have. I generally think the best of people until they prove definitively otherwise, and I must say that in three short posts, Lame Duck has managed to cross that line and show himself to be a truly inconsiderate and revolting human being. You're not a loud-mouth, you say, Lame Duck? Maybe you'll be pleased to hear that it sounds as though you are, underneath your supposedly reserved nature, one of the biggest loudmouth a**holes I've heard of. Congratulations on that feat. You do not deserve to have it put any more nicely than that. Maybe I should have/could have been more mature and calm in this post, as Sushiboat and Strawberry Sweetie were able to do (I admire you two!); but I simply cannot stand people who put down other people for no reason at all. They deserve to be dragged through the streets and publicly flogged for the feelings of low self-worth that they perpetuate. Especially if they dare to do it in a forum as excellent and supportive as Shy United. Awe! Whatsa matta; can’t take a little “tough love?” Should I kiss your butt through this forum to make you feel better? If someone tells you that you never talk? What do you do? You talk more to spite that person. The same principle applies here; this should make you stronger like it did to me not wear you down. What kind of person grows up as a very talkative child and then never talks just because he or she “loses his/her self esteem?” I do not buy that. We are genetically program to have a certain range of introvert and extrovert qualities. If you were born near the middle you might change a little on either end but you will not be extremely shy! I know some people who don’t like sports. These are usually the people who are obsessed with Star Wars, Star Trek, anime, dragon ball z, and so forth. Wow what cool hobbies to have! Anyways whether you realized it or not, you just motivated me! I am sick and tired of being a nice guy – it has gotten me no where. I am going to start getting the phone numbers from girls for spite! GreenFerret, I will now peel the skin off my body.
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brogo
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Post by brogo on Aug 16, 2004 22:31:34 GMT -5
Oh, and are you sure you are shy? Just because you might be quiet and reserved by nature doesn't mean that you are shy. Does being around people make you nervous? If not, then I don't think you'd be considered shy, at least not in my opinion. Generally speaking, I would think that all shy people have at least a somewhat low self-esteem if they're nervous around people. I hid behind my mother's shoulder as an infant when strangers or even relatives came by. You tell me... I was born with extreme shyness but I am improving. I am trying to improve my shyness by acting more bold. No I do not consider myself to have low self esteem in any other area except starting conversations with girls in real life. That is ONLY do to my crappy "shyness" genetics and nothing else IMHO which is why I am a self proclaimed Lame Duck.
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Aug 17, 2004 1:06:36 GMT -5
Way to go GreenFerret! *applauds* <<"What kind of person grows up as a very talkative child and then never talks just because he or she “loses his/her self esteem?” I do not buy that. We are genetically program to have a certain range of introvert and extrovert qualities. If you were born near the middle you might change a little on either end but you will not be extremely shy!">> Lame Duck Well, perhaps the child gets an abusive stepfather or an adult gets in an abusive relationship, where all they do is get abused and are consistently called stupid and worthless. Would that child (or adult) not develop any sort of shy and cautious nature around other people if he/she thinks that he/she is truly worthless and stupid? There are so many different situations and so many possiblilities that I can't see why you can't see that to be possible. <<"I know some people who don’t like sports. These are usually the people who are obsessed with Star Wars, Star Trek, anime, dragon ball z, and so forth. Wow what cool hobbies to have!">> Lame Duck Who are you to say what's "cool" and what's "not"? You just made yourself sound like you're still in middle school with that little immature boy brain. <<"I hid behind my mother's shoulder as an infant when strangers or even relatives came by. You tell me... I was born with extreme shyness but I am improving. I am trying to improve my shyness by acting more bold. No I do not consider myself to have low self esteem in any other area except starting conversations with girls in real life. That is ONLY do to my crappy "shyness" genetics and nothing else IMHO which is why I am a self proclaimed Lame Duck. ">> Lame Duck Perhaps you were extremely shy as a baby, but that was then and this is now. You make it sound like you are scared when you say you are "acting more bold". Why would you be so scared if you didn't have self-esteem issues? Is it just girls that you are "shy" around? If you can't talk to them, then I don't see how you can be all confident about yourself. Do they actually make you nervous to where you clam up or are you just quiet because it's your nature? To me, those are two different things.
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Post by GreenFerret on Aug 17, 2004 1:51:43 GMT -5
Yes! Go Strawberrie Sweetie!! This guy isn't going to get off easy, posting the sort of crap he has. ;D
Tough love, Lame Duck?! What the hell...? What you wrote isn't tough love--it helped nobody, and in no circumstances could help anyone. Michael1973 and a number of others have attested to that. Might I also point out to you that, being a female and not particularly desirous of the testosterone that, according to you, oozes from every pore as you sit on your butt watching other people play games, I was not personally offended by your comment; thus in no way could it or should it "make me stronger." The thing is, I was appalled at the grossly inflated ego and incredible lack of empathy that led to your deriding someone to the point of implying he was not a man, simply because he doesn't like what you like; what you have decided is best. And yeah, you're sooo right. Watching movies and reading books with plots, and using one's creativity to expand on the ideas contained therein--that doesn't hold a candle to sitting around, chanting "defense, defense!" Wow, what a worthwhile way to spend your time--all your time, all your energy, all your effort. Gee, do you like to watch the static on TV too?? That'd really be kickin' it up a notch. Cause you wouldn't want to make the effort to use your muscles or your brain, when it's so much more convenient not to. That's pretty obvious. And no, I'm not saying it's bad to like watching sports: I'm saying it's bad to let watching sports consume your life to the point that they have yours, Lame Duck: to the point when, in fact, you begin to believe that you have a right to put down anyone not similarly obsessed.
And you have certainly not listened to a damn thing people on this site have to say. I don't believe anyone on this site has claimed to have been walking along, a happy extrovert, and then suddenly been mowed down by a single comment that "made them shy." Shyness is arguably most often genetic in great part, and low self esteem is generally a part of this. It comes with being shy for a vast majority of people. Being unable to do the things we want to do, and constantly hearing that it's abnormal and wrong to be shy, plus the additional burden of being a perfectionist which many of us have--that's where the low self esteem comes from. And Strawberrie Sweetie is quite right in saying that years of being put down as a child can definitely induce and/or increase shyness, particularly if a person is already genetically predisposed to being shy. Just as being physically abused leads to the development of certain personality traits, so does being verbally abused. Even in adults, traumatic experiences can cause personality changes; how can you postulate that a child would be unaffected by constant ridicule?
As for getting phone numbers from girls... yeah, you just go ahead and try. You say you're sick of being a nice guy; I don't think you've ever actually been one. I know nice guys--ones who like sports even, but aren't obsessed with them as you are--and nice guys would never, ever insult someone for not being just like them. A nice person would have encouraged the person, instead of telling them that their personal feelings--something as indisputable and unquestionable as their propensity for shyness--are wrong and unmanly.
So you just keep being your usual self, and if you look in the right places for girls who are desperate enough to take up with someone who will question their validity as a human being for being anything other than the "norm" according to you, then yeah; you just might find what you're looking for.
Crappy shyness genetics are one thing. It's very tough to curb or control shyness--we all know that first-hand. But being kind, especially online... THAT is something you can control. So, I guess I missed it: why does any of this make it right for you to ridicule people going through difficulties which, if you esteem yourself so highly, are even worse than what you experience? How does telling someone who already looks down on himself for being different--how does labeling him as effeminate unless he becomes your disciple and falls in love with all things sporty help him in any way? What is to be gained from telling him he'd better go and enjoy something that he does NOT get any enjoyment from?
Tough love is quitting sending money to a grown son or daughter in order to force him/her to get a job and support him/herself. Tough love is cutting off the arm to stop the spread of gangreen to the rest of the body. Tough love is allowing a peaceful death for a family member who is obviously suffering. But tough love is also considered a useful excuse for people who like to toss out insults and bully other people. When confronted, it's quite a cliche for bullies to claim they were merely "toughening up" their victim, who was a "wimp" and therefore somehow deserved such treatment. Hmm, sounds familiar.
So, I'm curious: what point, exactly, do you think this forum serves? Is it not to make people feel better about being different, and to give practical advice for overcoming the obstacles created by our shyness? Why wouldn't you stick to the advice and leave out the insult? What is this higher purpose you think such rudeness served, keeping in mind what other people are very clearly telling you? Were you "toughening up" Michael1973, is that what you're claiming? Do you truly believe you were in the right?! Incredible. And I naively though that one of the "good" side effects of being shy was having a lot of empathy for the suffering of others. I was cynical before... it's always nice to find yet another example of why so many people have lost faith in humanity. I am hoping Strawberrie Sweetie has indeed hit the nail in the head by theorizing that you cannot even really be defined as "shy," despite your behavior as a child. I mean, really: are you still sucking your thumb and drinking from your sippy cup? Things change.
Hmm, I guess your obnoxious post has actually helped at least one person besides your twisted self. It feels really good to tell an arrogant person what you really think of them, and as I shy person, I don't usually get that chance. I am grateful to you for giving me an opportunity to do so.
Now I suggest you go find someplace where cruelty is appreciated by the objects of such insulting posts as yours, because this is not the place for it. So many people here feel so badly about themselves, some of us would tolerate your insults only because we feel too badly about ourselves to deny what you say. I imagine that is why Michael1973 prefaced his response with "I don't mean to be nasty, but..." before posting something ironically completely lacking in nastiness when compared to what you had so blithely written before and then, amazingly, defended when others questioned you. The rest of us (me, Sushiboat, and Strawberrie Sweetie being only a very small taste), on the other hand, will let you know exactly what we think of people like you. I observe that you are so full of yourself that all of this probably has little to no effect, but it is true nonetheless, and will perhaps encourage you to post more thoughtfully in the future. Or does your spite urge you to do the opposite? I suppose it doesn't matter, as long as you realize that there are people out there who aren't going to stand for it and congratulate you for writing such tripe as you did in responding to Michael1973.
So, there you go. Now, just to spite us, why don't you go find that desperate girl, throw a big party... And hey, put on ESPN and stare at the screen for hours, no, days on end, with your new girlfriend on your knee and your guests all crowded around, until you all become drooling zombies with a vocabulary consisting entirely of sports terms, because there is quite obviously nothing in life worth one's attention other than televised sports. Yeah, that'll teach me. That'll show me how wrong I was to doubt you in all your self-loving, sports-worshipping, unsympathetic glory. What was I thinking.
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Post by SpathiEluder on Aug 17, 2004 12:50:22 GMT -5
I know some people who don’t like sports. These are usually the people who are obsessed with Star Wars, Star Trek, anime, dragon ball z, and so forth. Wow what cool hobbies to have! Why thank you for your admiration of my hobbies!
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