Would a friend say this to you?

[Outcast]

I don't know if i am being too sensitive about this. But while i was having a chat with one of my "friends", i was kind of just making some jokes. Implying maybe she still liked my brother. She said, she wanted me to be serious at first. But she blew up after i brought it up again. She said " You are pissing me off." .....Of course, i think i got hurt by that remark. Wasn't really expecting it from her. . So when she said she had to go, i replied "Ok, maybe you just need to cool off a bit."

Anyway, i've been avoiding this "friend" of mine in chat sessions. Usually because everytime i talked/chatted with her, i always ended up feeling sad or bad about myself. So after months of hiding. I decided to let those bad experiences go and give her another chance. I showed myself to her online. And the result? I got a piss me off remark from her. And she wondered why i haven't been online for so long.

[phoenixferret]

"Still liked?" What's the history between her and your brother? It can be really embarrassing and uncomfortable to have someone teasing you about liking someone. And if she'd already told you once to be serious and stop making the jokes, well, I wouldn't be happy, either. Just recently one of my friends started to tease me about something embarrassing in front of another friend, and she stopped after I gave her a couple of dirty looks. If she'd kept on, I would have had to leave--and it would have made me more angry if she'd laid the blame on *me* by saying "maybe you just need to cool off a bit" as I left.

I don't know what happens normally when you interact, but maybe you two just aren't compatible as friends if she often gets mad and you often get sad after speaking. Not everyone can be good friends; it might be better if you could cut down on the amount of time you spend together. If you don't want to do that, you can try to figure out what it is that's upsetting her, so that you can quit doing it. Whether the problem is that she's too sensitive or that you're taking the teasing too far, it may be down to you to either make the changes that will save the friendship, or to decide it's not worth maintaining anymore.

[Outcast]

I could have sworn Daffodil said something about her being a bit controlling. (Wonder what happened to it?)

Ok. Here's the history between her and my brother. My brother was courting her in the past, she turned him down numerous times but still they had become good friends. It was during this time, that my brother introduce me to her and her family. My brother had earlier realized that she and her sisters were a bit manipulative with people. And he warned me about them. It took me some time before i learned what he was talking about. I saw it sometimes as taking advantage of people. But hey, i didn't want to make any final judgments about them so i would often dismiss these things off.

Eventually, my brother had gotten a new girlfriend. Of course being friends at that time, he introduced his new girlfriend to her and her family.(That's because were sort of like neighbors. ) Well, she and her family didn't like his new girlfriend and would say all these mean things about her. Judging her based solely on her appearance. They pitied my brother a lot. But my brother paid no attention to them. Naturally, my brother would devote most of his time now with his new girlfriend and less time for them.

The final blow came, when one of her sisters revealed a secret that my brother had entrusted to her. That's when the relationship between my brother and this "friend" of mine deteriorated. My brother didn't want anything to do with them anymore.

I on the other hand, didn't want to close the door on them like that. So I still try to remain friendly with them.

Anyways. it's not the first time i teased her about my brother. I did that all the time when i had the chance(you know in jokes, timing is crucial.) And she didn't snapped like that to me. Oh well.

What happened in our little chat was, she asked how my family and i were doing. And somewhere in between, i teased her about she and my brother just to lighten things up. She wanted me to be serious. Later in the conversation, I had mentioned that my brother's current girlfriend was also working abroad like she was. When i told her that, she was surprisingly interested to know where so she can talk to her. I didn't feel my brother would be too happy if he knew i told her that much so i jokingly attempted to avoid answering the question. She persisted on knowing though and also mentioned she had called my brother not too long ago. So i decided to tease her to ask my brother herself.

Then...SNAP!!! I got the piss me off remark. ...and then she said she had to go.

To be honest, i was shocked and really hurt by that remark. I tried to think of the best way to handle it. So I sent a smiley and said. Ok, maybe you just need to cool off a bit. I waited for her to sign out. But she didn't. So i decided to be the first one to do so.

[MrNice]

you overreacted
find some better friends

[Rose]

outcast said:

I could have sworn Daffodil said something about her being a bit controlling. (Wonder what happened to it?)

I deleted it coz I liked ferret's and songbird's responses better... plus, I wasn't there and only heard one side of the story so I couldn't really judge, but after reading the rest, she does indeed sound um.. manipulative (from what you posted about her).

[phoenixferret]

littlesongbird said:

Actually, after reading that I don't see what you did wrong at all. She was being snoopy and you were right to say ask him yourself. I mean its better you didn't say where your brothers gf was. I don't see how its her business or why on earth she would want to talk to her, especially since they were making fun of her.

I don't think I agree. She might be a thoroughly unpleasant person generally, but what she asked sounds to me like a normal follow-up question after you told her where your brother's GF was, Outcast. If you didn't want to talk about it, or knew that your brother wouldn't want you to discuss it with this girl, you shouldn't have brought it up. And once you did, it's your own fault if she gets angry because you're deliberately dodging her questions--especially by teasing her further when she already asked you once to stop. She may be manipulative or bitchy for the other reasons you've mentioned, but in this case, I don't see how she did anything wrong.

You already know it was wrong of you to bring up the girlfriend subject at all, and once that happened you were inevitably going to have to accept responsibility for pissing her off, assuming she chose to respond with anything more interest-indicative than "O RLY" or, "that's nice." The "maybe you just need to cool off a bit" comment put the blame on her, when the situation was a direct result of your mistake. So yes, I do think you were being over-sensitive; she had reason to be mad, and you should have seen it coming, and not been "shocked." If you'd told her, "I dunno; somewhere in Europe," you might have gotten away with it.

On the other hand, it's really strange that your brother has had to cut contact with this girl because she and her family are manipulative and nasty to his girlfriend, and you think she's manipulative, and apparently you don't even get along with her. Sometimes if people are really unpleasant generally, you can become oversensitive to the normal things they say, because you know their personality, and you've come to expect it from them. And if that's the case, the relationship's sorta been corrupted to the point where you have to ask yourself, why are you still friends with this person? You know from personal experience and your brother's testimony that she's judgmental and spiteful; so what's the point?

Aww, and Rose, you didn't need to delete what you wrote! Different perspectives = gooood.

[Outcast]

phoenixferret said:

I don't think I agree. She might be a thoroughly unpleasant person generally, but what she asked sounds to me like a normal follow-up question after you told her where your brother's GF was, Outcast. If you didn't want to talk about it, or knew that your brother wouldn't want you to discuss it with this girl, you shouldn't have brought it up. And once you did, it's your own fault if she gets angry because you're deliberately dodging her questions--especially by teasing her further when she already asked you once to stop. She may be manipulative or bitchy for the other reasons you've mentioned, but in this case, I don't see how she did anything wrong.

You already know it was wrong of you to bring up the girlfriend subject at all, and once that happened you were inevitably going to have to accept responsibility for pissing her off,

she had reason to be mad, and you should have seen it coming, and not been "shocked."

Ok I admit that it was really poor choice to bring that topic about my brother's GF. Sometimes i really suck at idle chitchat and everyday conversations with other people. When people ask me "What's new?" I can barely think of anything to talk about.

So, what if it's the other way around? And I'm the one who is asking all the questions. What if she accidentally brought up a topic about something that she would rather not talk about? And it really got me going or interested. I start asking questions, she doesn't answer me and avoids my questions. Can I then get angry at her, and say things like "you're pissing me off."? Would she accept that? And feel that she had that coming? Would it really be ok, for a friend of yours to get pissed off like that just because you didn't want to answer her questions? Wouldn't you expect a friend to respect your decision to stay quiet about the matter? Or in my case, referred her to the one really concerned, like my brother?

In the first place, why would she want to talk to my brother's GF when they have been backbiting her all this time? And "how" can she talk to my brother's GF , when she can't even ask my brother for that information? Would you want a friend, who can't talk to you, ask another friend of yours about some information about your boyfriend? Isn't it like going through a back door or something like that?

phoenixferret said:

The "maybe you just need to cool off a bit" comment put the blame on her, when the situation was a direct result of your mistake. So yes, I do think you were being over-sensitive;

I can also admit to being over sensitive at times, and so i often try to control my emotions and think first before i talk back. At that time, after being told "Your pissing me off." and then a "I got to go." I really didn't know what to say or how to react. With the piss me off, it's natural for me to deduce that she was mad. Mad enough to just walk away and leave me hanging. I already told you i was shocked by her reaction hence i didn't realize what i did wrong. I can only think " a cool off" statement was appropriate since i felt she was so angry. If its ok for her say that those things because she was mad, then, it could have been ok for me to tell her the very same thing as well. But it's my belief, that it is wrong for me to do so. Wrong for me to get angry. So i just tried to let it go, and respond in a nice way. I really didn't think i was trying to blame her for anything.

phoenixferret said:

On the other hand, it's really strange that your brother has had to cut contact with this girl because she and her family are manipulative and nasty to his girlfriend

Well, my brother has been really nice to her and her family. He really didn't mind them saying nasty things to his GF. He could care less of their opinions. What really made him draw the line was when a sister of hers, whom he entrusted a secret with, revealed that very secret, to one of his enemies. I guess, that was when he finally got fed up and decided he would no longer tolerate anymore of their manipulative ways.

phoenixferret said:

and you think she's manipulative, and apparently you don't even get along with her. Sometimes if people are really unpleasant generally, you can become oversensitive to the normal things they say, because you know their personality, and you've come to expect it from them. And if that's the case, the relationship's sorta been corrupted to the point where you have to ask yourself, why are you still friends with this person? You know from personal experience and your brother's testimony that she's judgmental and spiteful; so what's the point?

Yes, I agree with you on that one. Generally, it was my belief and conviction to not try and judge people. Before, even though it seemed as if they were taking advantage of me. I tolerated it. I didn't really want to believe that they were like that. But some of my family members found out about it and asked me time and again, why am i tolerating them? Why am i letting them do all those things to me? It was that time, that i was trying to learn and accept people ,the good, and the bad. I believed everyone has their own faults. I believed that in order for me to accept my own faults, i had to learn and accept the faults of others first. It was really hard. But then, soon all those advice from concerned relatives began to sink in. And before i knew it, i have developed a somewhat biased and negative view of these people. I still try to fight it though.

So what you're saying is true, that it is kinda hard staying friends with them, when i have developed that biased view already.
But i think it would be worse if i try and cut them off completely. So i still don't.

Recently, this "friend" of mine sent me a message. A Merry Christmas greeting message. And I replied "Thanks. Merry Christmas too."

It's not hard for me to forgive them and let go of things they did in the past. I can be nice to them, if they are friendly enough to greet me again. What is troubling me though, is that sometimes i may still have that biased view of them. Because i am still being careful.Often times avoiding them. Minimizing the time i spend with them. I think this is largely in part due to some advice i have been given to avoid people that seem wrong to me or makes me feel sad or wrong. This advice was given to me in the hope of making me a more positive person.

Ok. I think I'll stop for now.

[MrNice]

So what you're saying is true, that it is kinda hard staying friends with them, when i have developed that biased view already.
But i think it would be worse if i try and cut them off completely. So i still don't.

you are making it sound like she wants to be friends with you so much and you have this big dilemma of judging whether she is good enough to be your friend

but does she give a crap or is this all you over thinking things? it sounds like you are making a big deal over nothing. so she told you that you were pissing her off - so what. its not an event to fret over for months. You are trying to get validation from her now. If you are not enjoying your time with someone don't force yourself onto them. It doesn't sound like you two have a good relationship to begin with to start thinking about faults.

[phoenixferret]

outcast said:

phoenixferret said:

I don't think I agree. She might be a thoroughly unpleasant person generally, but what she asked sounds to me like a normal follow-up question after you told her where your brother's GF was, Outcast. If you didn't want to talk about it, or knew that your brother wouldn't want you to discuss it with this girl, you shouldn't have brought it up. And once you did, it's your own fault if she gets angry because you're deliberately dodging her questions--especially by teasing her further when she already asked you once to stop. She may be manipulative or bitchy for the other reasons you've mentioned, but in this case, I don't see how she did anything wrong.

You already know it was wrong of you to bring up the girlfriend subject at all, and once that happened you were inevitably going to have to accept responsibility for pissing her off,

she had reason to be mad, and you should have seen it coming, and not been "shocked."

Ok I admit that it was really poor choice to bring that topic about my brother's GF. Sometimes i really suck at idle chitchat and everyday conversations with other people. When people ask me "What's new?" I can barely think of anything to talk about.

So, what if it's the other way around? And I'm the one who is asking all the questions. What if she accidentally brought up a topic about something that she would rather not talk about? And it really got me going or interested. I start asking questions, she doesn't answer me and avoids my questions. Can I then get angry at her, and say things like "you're pissing me off."? Would she accept that? And feel that she had that coming? Would it really be ok, for a friend of yours to get pissed off like that just because you didn't want to answer her questions? Wouldn't you expect a friend to respect your decision to stay quiet about the matter? Or in my case, referred her to the one really concerned, like my brother?

Well, you're welcome to feel however you feel. But I should point out that there's a difference between "I had a bad day" "what happened?" "I don't want to talk about it," and your conversation: "Your old friend's girlfriend is in town" "where's she staying?" "I won't tell you; ask him, wink." Do you see? The first is something that can be annoying, but that you're pretty much obligated to respect, as a friend. You can be ticked, but there's no reason to take it out on them. The implication in the former conversation is, "it would make me feel worse to go through what happened, but you should know that I'm in a bad mood." The implication in your conversation is either, "your old friend doesn't like you anymore or trust you enough to have contact with his girlfriend, and there's really no reason I should have dangled the possibility in front of you; deal with it." OR, since you opted to blow off her question with a joke, the implication is, "I have information pertaining to your old friend, but I'm not going to give it to you because I don't have to." Either way, she has every right to be pissed off.

What does it matter whether she would "accept" your getting mad if the situation were reversed? If the situation were reversed, then SHE should have seen it coming. And if I made the mistake of mentioning something to my friend that I should have kept my mouth shut about--something that was basically an unofficial secret--I would feel bad for betraying the trust of the one person and for making the other friend feel foolish. The last thing I'd be concerned about was how wronged *I* felt by my friend's negative reaction.

When you first described this situation, you said you were joking with her when you told her to ask your brother. But in this new retelling, you describe it as having "referred her to the one really concerned," which is an interesting switch--not that it really makes a difference.

In the first place, why would she want to talk to my brother's GF when they have been backbiting her all this time? And "how" can she talk to my brother's GF , when she can't even ask my brother for that information? Would you want a friend, who can't talk to you, ask another friend of yours about some information about your boyfriend? Isn't it like going through a back door or something like that?

It really doesn't matter why she wanted to talk to the girlfriend. Maybe she WAS "going through the back door," but what you did was hold that door open for her, and then let it shut in her face. And then you were shocked when that pissed her off. As her friend, your first obligation was to avoid making her feel bad by bringing up your brother or his GF at all, since they don't like her and don't want her to know anything about them. Failing that, your second obligation was to perform damage control, possibly by dodging any further questions--which you did. But most people don't like being bullshitted, so if your friend gets pissed off at your unwillingness to answer any more questions, that's sort of par for the course. You're basically sacrificing your feelings to protect theirs, which is fair because it was your fault to begin with that you said as much as you did.

I can also admit to being over sensitive at times, and so i often try to control my emotions and think first before i talk back. At that time, after being told "Your pissing me off." and then a "I got to go." I really didn't know what to say or how to react. With the piss me off, it's natural for me to deduce that she was mad. Mad enough to just walk away and leave me hanging. I already told you i was shocked by her reaction hence i didn't realize what i did wrong. I can only think " a cool off" statement was appropriate since i felt she was so angry. If its ok for her say that those things because she was mad, then, it could have been ok for me to tell her the very same thing as well. But it's my belief, that it is wrong for me to do so. Wrong for me to get angry. So i just tried to let it go, and respond in a nice way. I really didn't think i was trying to blame her for anything.

You were right; she was mad. She had reason to be mad. And you already knew what you'd done "wrong--" right? You shouldn't have brought up your brother's girlfriend at all. Are you saying that it would have been alright for you to tell her she was pissing you off because she told you you were pissing her off? I don't see where you got that, unless you consider all expressions of anger as slights in themselves.

About the "cool off" remark, I'm not saying you were literally trying to blame her; just that it sort of adds insult to injury. You wouldn't say "maybe you just need to cool off" to someone who'd just been betrayed by their girlfriend and told you they were pissed off, would you? It's just not the sort of thing you'd say to someone who's legitimately annoyed to a reasonable degree.

Well, my brother has been really nice to her and her family. He really didn't mind them saying nasty things to his GF. He could care less of their opinions. What really made him draw the line was when a sister of hers, whom he entrusted a secret with, revealed that very secret, to one of his enemies. I guess, that was when he finally got fed up and decided he would no longer tolerate anymore of their manipulative ways.

He cut her off basically only because her *sister* did something really nasty...?

Yes, I agree with you on that one. Generally, it was my belief and conviction to not try and judge people. Before, even though it seemed as if they were taking advantage of me. I tolerated it. I didn't really want to believe that they were like that. But some of my family members found out about it and asked me time and again, why am i tolerating them? Why am i letting them do all those things to me? It was that time, that i was trying to learn and accept people ,the good, and the bad. I believed everyone has their own faults. I believed that in order for me to accept my own faults, i had to learn and accept the faults of others first. It was really hard. But then, soon all those advice from concerned relatives began to sink in. And before i knew it, i have developed a somewhat biased and negative view of these people. I still try to fight it though.

You are under no obligation to be friends with people you don't actively like, period.

So what you're saying is true, that it is kinda hard staying friends with them, when i have developed that biased view already.
But i think it would be worse if i try and cut them off completely. So i still don't.

You're allowed to be biased against being friends with unpleasant people. This "bias" is based on knowledge of a person's individual character. There's no need to be nasty to them, but there's no point in being friends with them.

It's not hard for me to forgive them and let go of things they did in the past. I can be nice to them, if they are friendly enough to greet me again. What is troubling me though, is that sometimes i may still have that biased view of them. Because i am still being careful.Often times avoiding them. Minimizing the time i spend with them. I think this is largely in part due to some advice i have been given to avoid people that seem wrong to me or makes me feel sad or wrong. This advice was given to me in the hope of making me a more positive person.

You SHOULD avoid people who make you feel bad on a regular basis! The point of friends is that you get to choose the kind of people you surround yourself with. You shouldn't be friends with anyone our of charity, pity, or self-castigation. "I dunno, I just don't like her much" is as good a reason to end a friendship as "she ran over my dog on purpose." Your friends should ideally be people you select because you're just that good together--not because they aren't awful enough to turned away.

[Outcast]

phoenixferret said:

And if I made the mistake of mentioning something to my friend that I should have kept my mouth shut about--something that was basically an unofficial secret--I would feel bad for betraying the trust of the one person and for making the other friend feel foolish. The last thing I'd be concerned about was how wronged *I* felt by my friend's negative reaction.

Good point. I guess I didn't see it that way. That i made the other friend feel foolish. I know i can really be oversensitive. So i am not sure most of the time, that i could already be doing something wrong in how i deal with some people. I think that's why i wanted to ask other people's viewpoint about it. I also asked some people here i know if there was anything I did wrong in that scenario. They told me i did nothing wrong, even my brother. They didn't even see my cool off remark as an attack against her.

phoenixferret said:

When you first described this situation, you said you were joking with her when you told her to ask your brother. But in this new retelling, you describe it as having "referred her to the one really concerned," which is an interesting switch--not that it really makes a difference.

It really doesn't matter why she wanted to talk to the girlfriend. Maybe she WAS "going through the back door," but what you did was hold that door open for her, and then let it shut in her face.

It really wasn't my intention to "open the door and shut it in her face." And it's not really a retelling, I did referred her to my brother in a jokingly manner. But as you said, it really makes no difference right. Maybe that's why i didn't mention it was done in a jokingly manner again. The point was,i was trying to refer her to my brother.

I think it does matter though, why she wanted to talk to my brother's girlfriend. If there was any bad intention in it, I think it would really matter then. But that idea didn't even occur to me during our chat. It was only after a lot of thinking, that it dawned upon me. So ok, i'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, in which case, it wouldn't really matter why she wanted to talk to her.

phoenixferret said:

Are you saying that it would have been alright for you to tell her she was pissing you off because she told you you were pissing her off? I don't see where you got that, unless you consider all expressions of anger as slights in themselves.

I think i already mentioned in my last post that i thought it was wrong so i didn't do it. A part of me felt like i should have done it afterwards though, but i still thought it was wrong. (Hey,i'm only human. )

phoenixferret said:

About the "cool off" remark, I'm not saying you were literally trying to blame her; just that it sort of adds insult to injury.

Hmmm. I'm still not sure how it could have been an added insult. She was the one who was upset. I just thought it would be better if she cooled off a bit. If both of us were angry at each other, then it would have been more appropriate for me to say that WE should cool off a bit. At the time,I just couldn't think of what else to say.

phoenixferret said:

He cut her off basically only because her *sister* did something really nasty...?

Yes. Sad but true. But i guess your next advice could have been the reason behind it too.

phoenixferret said:

You are under no obligation to be friends with people you don't actively like, period.
You're allowed to be biased against being friends with unpleasant people. This "bias" is based on knowledge of a person's individual character. There's no need to be nasty to them, but there's no point in being friends with them.
You SHOULD avoid people who make you feel bad on a regular basis! The point of friends is that you get to choose the kind of people you surround yourself with. You shouldn't be friends with anyone our of charity, pity, or self-castigation. "I dunno, I just don't like her much" is as good a reason to end a friendship as "she ran over my dog on purpose." Your friends should ideally be people you select because you're just that good together--not because they aren't awful enough to turned away.

Hmmm, I have to really think about this. But it does sound right. And I guess it really wouldn't be fair for the other person if you have this bias thing going. But then again, i think we shouldn't really be biased in the first place though. I'm not sure. Sometimes i think they really just want to be friends, they keep on coming back. So it's hard for me just to ignore them. That would be nasty.

[MrNice]

outcast you are overthinking things way too much
you have this grandiouse thing going where you are some presiding judge over people or something and that your little decisions about who is right and wrong and who said what at exactly what point in time matter

they don't matter
thats why youir brother and others didn't think you did anything wrong
overall it was not an event that people would think about at all
it might have been the 15th out of the 20 times the girl got 'pissed off' that day, who cares?

[annaa]

I agree with lsdima on this one (oh no.. what's happening?! ).

You are over thinking this way too much.
Sensitive people can be very easily hurt by comments like that. I know first hand that even the smallest negative comment can put me in a bad mood. Usually if that's how easily hurt you are then you're quite likely to think about it a while after it's happened too.

You've got to remember she doesn't think the same way as you do. Nobody does. I'm almost certain she's not given it any thought since saying it.
As annoying as it may be, you've got to let it go now. To bring it up could make you seem petty/needy and we both know that's not how it is at all (also she may not even remember it).

In these situations you should either say something there and then, or be prepared to forget about it.

[Outcast]

annaa said:

I agree with lsdima on this one (oh no.. what's happening?! ).

You are over thinking this way too much.
Sensitive people can be very easily hurt by comments like that. I know first hand that even the smallest negative comment can put me in a bad mood. Usually if that's how easily hurt you are then you're quite likely to think about it a while after it's happened too.

You've got to remember she doesn't think the same way as you do. Nobody does. I'm almost certain she's not given it any thought since saying it.
As annoying as it may be, you've got to let it go now. To bring it up could make you seem petty/needy and we both know that's not how it is at all (also she may not even remember it).

In these situations you should either say something there and then, or be prepared to forget about it.

Thanks for the advice. I think your both right. I was overthinking this situation too much. I guess i'm pretty much over it by now. And yeah i know, she doesn't even think about it too much.

Thanks for all the feedback and advices guys. Appreciate it.

I'll try not to do too much thinking next time.

[Sweet Pea]

i couldn't follow all of that, but good luck with it anyways.