What causes crushes?

[lily]

zaab70 said:

If you ever read the Speed Seduction type sites, that's a major part of their strategy, pull back, act indifferent and make the girl come to you once you determined she has an interest. Though I don't take the advice too seriously, there is a lesson in there somewhere. Its a good idea to hold back at least a little bit, especially at first and make the other person realize you're a valuable commodity and not needy and completely at their beck and call. There's a reason why people date once a week at the start of a courtship.

But, yeah, I agree, shy people are very vulnerable to the crush effect for the reasons you mention, Lily.

Well, if you know there are people out there using those kinds of strategies, at least it's a little harder for them to mess with you just to get their kicks. That way you can save your time and energy for someone who sincerely wants to get to know you and get closer to you. In my opinion, life is too short for that kind of crap.

[zaab]

lily said:

zaab70 said:

If you ever read the Speed Seduction type sites, that's a major part of their strategy, pull back, act indifferent and make the girl come to you once you determined she has an interest. Though I don't take the advice too seriously, there is a lesson in there somewhere. Its a good idea to hold back at least a little bit, especially at first and make the other person realize you're a valuable commodity and not needy and completely at their beck and call. There's a reason why people date once a week at the start of a courtship.

But, yeah, I agree, shy people are very vulnerable to the crush effect for the reasons you mention, Lily.

Well, if you know there are people out there using those kinds of strategies, at least it's a little harder for them to mess with you just to get their kicks. That way you can save your time and energy for someone who sincerely wants to get to know you and get closer to you. In my opinion, life is too short for that kind of crap.

Yeah, I agree, if they're used in a disingenuous manner. But, like the whole dating once a week thing and not calling too often, and the girl playing coy and the guy playing it cool, there are ways MOST of us operate to amp up the feelings and it can't exactly be called manipulative. Its how the courtship game is played.

[lily]

zaab70 said:

lily said:

Well, if you know there are people out there using those kinds of strategies, at least it's a little harder for them to mess with you just to get their kicks. That way you can save your time and energy for someone who sincerely wants to get to know you and get closer to you. In my opinion, life is too short for that kind of crap.

Yeah, I agree, if they're used in a disingenuous manner. But, like the whole dating once a week thing and not calling too often, and the girl playing coy and the guy playing it cool, there are ways MOST of us operate to amp up the feelings and it can't exactly be called manipulative. Its how the courtship game is played.

Oh, sure...I agree...to a point.

[zaab]

lily said:

zaab70 said:

Yeah, I agree, if they're used in a disingenuous manner. But, like the whole dating once a week thing and not calling too often, and the girl playing coy and the guy playing it cool, there are ways MOST of us operate to amp up the feelings and it can't exactly be called manipulative. Its how the courtship game is played.

Oh, sure...I agree...to a point.

And I'm not defending speed seduction at all. IMO, they take subtle effects from the courtship process and try to exploit them for manipulative ends. Its just that we go through mating rituals like any other animal and its important to know the steps, without being false.

[lily]

zaab70 said:

lily said:

Oh, sure...I agree...to a point.

And I'm not defending speed seduction at all. IMO, they take subtle effects from the courtship process and try to exploit them for manipulative ends. Its just that we go through mating rituals like any other animal and its important to know the steps, without being false.

I understand where you're coming from. But these techniques are becoming so widespread that the last few times they were used on me I knew exactly what the guy was doing while he was doing it. It was like 'oh, nice neg hit' or 'oh boy, another fan of nlp'. At best it makes me smile, at worst it causes instant boredom or annoyance. If I want to be manipulated, I'll go get a massage.

[zaab]

lily said:

zaab70 said:

And I'm not defending speed seduction at all. IMO, they take subtle effects from the courtship process and try to exploit them for manipulative ends. Its just that we go through mating rituals like any other animal and its important to know the steps, without being false.

I understand where you're coming from. But these techniques are becoming so widespread that the last few times they were used on me I knew exactly what the guy was doing while he was doing it. It was like 'oh, nice neg hit' or 'oh boy, another fan of nlp'. At best it makes me smile, at worst it causes instant boredom or annoyance. If I want to be manipulated, I'll go get a massage.

No, no, no! Its not called massage. That's what we DJs like to call "extreme kino." Learn the language! ;D

[lily]

zaab70 said:

lily said:

I understand where you're coming from. But these techniques are becoming so widespread that the last few times they were used on me I knew exactly what the guy was doing while he was doing it. It was like 'oh, nice neg hit' or 'oh boy, another fan of nlp'. At best it makes me smile, at worst it causes instant boredom or annoyance. If I want to be manipulated, I'll go get a massage.

No, no, no! Its not called massage. That's what we DJs like to call "extreme kino." Learn the language! ;D

LOL! Seriously, I think people are starting to get the idea they have to trick or manipulate people into liking them. It's weird. Hey, maybe I liked you to begin with, ever think of that? Maybe before you ever walked over and pulled out your little back of tricks, I already had my eye on you. Hope I'm not bursting anybody's bubble, but I'm more concerned with substance than form.

[zaab]

lily said:

zaab70 said:

No, no, no! Its not called massage. That's what we DJs like to call "extreme kino." Learn the language! ;D

LOL! Seriously, I think people are starting to get the idea they have to trick or manipulate people into liking them. It's weird. Hey, maybe I liked you to begin with, ever think of that? Maybe before you ever walked over and pulled out your little back of tricks, I already had my eye on you. Hope I'm not bursting anybody's bubble, but I'm more concerned with substance than form.

I absolutely agree. I don't think you have to study how to court somebody. The "technique" comes through custom and instinct for the most part. Though, I admit, its helpful to read about other's experiences and try not to repeat their mistakes and try to copy where they went right. I'd feel like a complete fool trying those things, especially since I tend to think that I have a mind of my own and some people might appreciate what's in it.

[lily]

zaab70 said:

lily said:

LOL! Seriously, I think people are starting to get the idea they have to trick or manipulate people into liking them. It's weird. Hey, maybe I liked you to begin with, ever think of that? Maybe before you ever walked over and pulled out your little back of tricks, I already had my eye on you. Hope I'm not bursting anybody's bubble, but I'm more concerned with substance than form.

I absolutely agree. I don't think you have to study how to court somebody. The "technique" comes through custom and instinct for the most part. Though, I admit, its helpful to read about other's experiences and try not to repeat their mistakes and try to copy where they went right. I'd feel like a complete fool trying those things, especially since I tend to think that I have a mind of my own and some people might appreciate what's in it.

Exactly! I want to explore the person I glimpse behind the eyes. I want to know who he is. I want to connect with another human being, another human mind. In a sexy way, of course.

[shytothebone]

This whole justification of effort and shy people contradicts its self. A shy person like me isn't going to put any effort into getting to know or asking out a crush period. A person who isn't shy that has a crush might be a different story. The person who wrote this doesn't understand what being shy is or what putting effort into something is. Also people who write that speed seduction horse shit have never been laid in their lives.

[zaab]

In my case, especially when I was younger, the "effort" came in the form of thinking and fantasizing about how I would obtain the girl. When day after day this didn't occur and she remained unobtainable, this became the hardship for me and the struggle was dealing with my inaction even though I had all these intentions. This is how I built up the crushes in my head, as Lily described,without actually taking any physical action.

[lily]

shytothebone said:

This whole justification of effort and shy people contradicts its self. A shy person like me isn't going to put any effort into getting to know or asking out a crush period. A person who isn't shy that has a crush might be a different story. The person who wrote this doesn't understand what being shy is or what putting effort into something is.

You're entitled to your opinion of course. But we've had many, many accounts posted on this site alone by shy people who have expended great amounts of effort trying to connect with someone they have a crush on, including asking them out.

By effort I mean not just physical effort but psychic effort also. You can put alot of emotional energy into a 'relationship' with a crush, trying to figure out how to get around your own shyness to get what you want, trying to figure out what your crush means by things they say and do, etc. And then there's all the emotional energy that goes into feelings like disappointment, disillusionment, despair, etc. It's a regular rollercoaster ride sometimes. I think all that constitutes a significant investment of effort on the part of the shy person. But not all shy people are the same, and I wasn't trying to say they are.

[HybridMoment]

I think that concept makes sense for a lot of shy people on this site. A simple crush can turn into an infatuation with a mind that turns social interactions into a great ordeal.

But I guess my mind is just lazy when it comes to this. Making friends and pursuing a crush seems too difficult, so I just give up (or don't even try at all); though years ago I did try. I haven't even had a crush in about 3 or 4 years, because it seemed so unlikely that it would ever get anywhere besides disappointment.

[Samantha]

I've just skimmed through this because I'm lazy hehehe, but I don't really agree. Pedantically I certainly wouldn't say that effort causes crushes. I'm thinking I misinterpreted this becuase surely you need the goal to be desirable to put the effort in the first place.

Sure sometimes it might help perpetuate the crush. It can be hard to let go of a good thing after all. Also there is the satisfaction of doing a long hard task. The feeling of completion and accomplishment etc or sometimes if you spend a long time doing something you just want to get it over and done with so you haven't wasted all your time. I don't really see these meaning too much in terms of crushes. Especially as they are rarley completed in terms of 'getting it on'.

Can I ask what were the results of people who didn't complete these tasks? what were the tasks? was there variety in the tasks? what sort of people were used? were they shy or non shy etc? Psychology has a bad habit of over generalising, simplifying and exaggerating sometimes.

Hey I'm just speaking for me really, I have never thought 'wow I have spent time and effort on something, therefore it is great'. I have though spent time and effort on something because I thought it was great and worth it. They are two very different things.

As zaab said his thoughts built up. So they started from somewhere. If you think something is going to make a great difference then it is hard to let go. Especially if you don't have many other options. I think someone, maybe you lilster mention perspective. This to me is the key factor. I don't think shy people have much perspective because alot of them live very sheltered, introverted lives. Those that haven't I find don't seem to put so much weight on finding someone. They don't see it as the be and end all.

Especially when you are young and hormonal, loneliness can be an awfull thing. I think the loneliness or the hope that someone can end the loneliness is far more important in terms of exaggerating the person we have a crush on. Because they become the great hope. Also since we don't have many friends, feel different to most people, like we don't or can't fit in then to meet someone who we think we could get on perfectly with... wow... in basic terms of supply and demand, they become precious, the rare diamond etc. Since no one else offers this hope they become all powerful. Since nothing or nobody else can 'save' us from loneliness they become everything to us. As time goes on, we become increasing lonely, have even lower self-esteem etc, it becomes more important to find a way to get it together with the great saviour. The lonelier we are, the more unhappy we are, the greater relief, joy, hope thinking about what it would be like to be with this person who can take all the misery away becomes. It's an escape, a way out of the loneliness. When you think this person is the only one for me, you have hope. You have a way out.

I think we exaggerate this more and more because because we as humans need solutions to problems. The more desperate the problem, the more we need a solution. The more we need a solution the more we exaggerate or depend on what may seem the only solution we have. We convince ourselves that this person will save us because we need to. The hope keeps us going.

That's the way I see it anyway. I could believe this justification of effort could play a part but I don't see it as a big part. I think it would play a bigger part in having to do something you don't want to. To convince yourself it was worthwhile and your life isn't a bucket of shit etc.

I'm no expert though lol. I just don't think it's a coincidence that people with the biggest crushes or more desperate to find someone seem to be people who haven't had many relationships. I.e it's a lack of experience and perspective. Surely if the justification of effort was a major factor then it would affect everyone equally.

Eh, I'm just rambling. Ignore me lol.

[pnoopiepnats]

papdancer said:

I've just skimmed through this because I'm lazy hehehe, but I don't really agree. Pedantically I certainly wouldn't say that effort causes crushes. I'm thinking I misinterpreted this becuase surely you need the goal to be desirable to put the effort in the first place.

Sure sometimes it might help perpetuate the crush. It can be hard to let go of a good thing after all. Also there is the satisfaction of doing a long hard task. The feeling of completion and accomplishment etc or sometimes if you spend a long time doing something you just want to get it over and done with so you haven't wasted all your time. I don't really see these meaning too much in terms of crushes. Especially as they are rarley completed in terms of 'getting it on'.

Can I ask what were the results of people who didn't complete these tasks? what were the tasks? was there variety in the tasks? what sort of people were used? were they shy or non shy etc? Psychology has a bad habit of over generalising, simplifying and exaggerating sometimes.

Hey I'm just speaking for me really, I have never thought 'wow I have spent time and effort on something, therefore it is great'. I have though spent time and effort on something because I thought it was great and worth it. They are two very different things.

As zaab said his thoughts built up. So they started from somewhere. If you think something is going to make a great difference then it is hard to let go. Especially if you don't have many other options. I think someone, maybe you lilster mention perspective. This to me is the key factor. I don't think shy people have much perspective because alot of them live very sheltered, introverted lives. Those that haven't I find don't seem to put so much weight on finding someone. They don't see it as the be and end all.

Especially when you are young and hormonal, loneliness can be an awfull thing. I think the loneliness or the hope that someone can end the loneliness is far more important in terms of exaggerating the person we have a crush on. Because they become the great hope. Also since we don't have many friends, feel different to most people, like we don't or can't fit in then to meet someone who we think we could get on perfectly with... wow... in basic terms of supply and demand, they become precious, the rare diamond etc. Since no one else offers this hope they become all powerful. Since nothing or nobody else can 'save' us from loneliness they become everything to us. As time goes on, we become increasing lonely, have even lower self-esteem etc, it becomes more important to find a way to get it together with the great saviour. The lonelier we are, the more unhappy we are, the greater relief, joy, hope thinking about what it would be like to be with this person who can take all the misery away becomes. It's an escape, a way out of the loneliness. When you think this person is the only one for me, you have hope. You have a way out.

I think we exaggerate this more and more because because we as humans need solutions to problems. The more desperate the problem, the more we need a solution. The more we need a solution the more we exaggerate or depend on what may seem the only solution we have. We convince ourselves that this person will save us because we need to. The hope keeps us going.

That's the way I see it anyway. I could believe this justification of effort could play a part but I don't see it as a big part. I think it would play a bigger part in having to do something you don't want to. To convince yourself it was worthwhile and your life isn't a bucket of shit etc.

I'm no expert though lol. I just don't think it's a coincidence that people with the biggest crushes or more desperate to find someone seem to be people who haven't had many relationships. I.e it's a lack of experience and perspective. Surely if the justification of effort was a major factor then it would affect everyone equally.

Eh, I'm just rambling. Ignore me lol.

You provided an interesting perspective.

I also don't think that something where a lot of effort was taken to get it is any better just for that reason.

Maybe my brain is just wired too logically.

As for crushes, can't say I have had that many even when younger. I never took them seriously either because I knew nothing would ever come of it.

Had one last year that I did though.

Maybe because I am such an introvert, I don't worry too much about being alone. I mostly like it.

Don't think I've ever been desperate to find someone. Probably the opposite. I know how I am and know that very few people I could ever get along with on a long term basis so I just kept a wall up. Most people would not want to put up with me not wanting to go anywhere, with my messiness, with my desire to be alone sometimes, with my odd quirks. Sure people may say that they could but then be trying to change me later on(like my X). Feck that. What you see is what you get. Take it or leave it.

Enough rambling