Newspaper Story on the Profoundly Shy

[billd1]

Following newspaper story was from a local newspaper, April 12, 1988, by Darrell Sifford of Knight-Ridder Newspapers.

Profoundly shy people suffer from disability that may cripple

I am what therapists call a "simple shy" person -- somebody who experiences some level of discomfort in some situations, such as walking into a room filled with people who are strangers to me but who are known to each other.

What I've learned to do is act as if I'm not shy. I'll go up to somebody and start a conversation -- about anything from his necktie to what he's drinking. I appear to be comfortable and relaxed and as extroverted as any salesman you ever met. It's an act, but nobody knows it but me, and it works.

But what if I were profoundly shy -- like some people I have met? That, psychotherapist John Owen said recently in Philadelphia, is something else entirely. "It's a prison, a crippling disability."

The old-time approach to treating shyness dealt solely with behavior and thoughts, he said. "You told somebody to 'stop thinking that way and go ahead and ask her to dance.' This works for simple shyness, but it doesn't work for somebody who is profoundly shy. For that person, the pain is so great that he'll stay in his room all day so he won't have to ask her to dance."

The pain comes from pervasive shame, said Owen, who regularly conducts workshops on overcoming shyness. "The shame is so poweful that it overrides everything else. Shame is not guilt, embarassment or self-consciousness. Shame is a statement that you're insufficient as a person. It's a humiliating experience. People would do anything rather than face shame -- even storm a hill and risk being killed to take a machine gun nest. ... Two or three or 10 times a day, the profoundly shy person re-experiences this pervasive shame: 'I am not valid as a human being."

Where does the shame come from?

From the family, said Owen. The roots are deep, and that is why the quick fix doesn't work. "How can you get over it in a few weeks when mommy and daddy taught you how to do it over a period of years? You can't. ... The sense of inadequacy is learned at an early age -- by not being validated, by not being good enough. ... There's usually an overdemanding, perfectionist parent who is never satisfied -- no matter what the kid does.

The kid doesn't quite measure up, but he's never told what it is that he doesn't measure up to. ... So he feels inadequate without knowing why. There's a lack of clarity, but the underlying sense of shame prevents the kid from saying, 'I feel inadequate,' and the denial that the family practices prevents the father from saying, 'Yes, I know. ... I felt inadequate at your age too, and I'll help you deal with it.'

John Owen, in his own words, was "a maladapted kid. We moved two dozen times, and I always was in a new school. I felt the shame of not being accepted by the social group. I was laughed at. I'd say 'hello,' but people would ignore me."

To disguise his pain, he became "a mouthy, obnoxious kid. ... I couldn't tell anybody at home, because nobody wanted to hear that this boy wasn't cutting it. Because nobody talked about problems, I assumed that nobody else had problems, so I had to deny and hide my problems. The shame of my inadequacy taught me to deny bad experiences. I looked aloof. ... Today, kids look druggy. It's a way to justify their being alone."

How does Owen help people to overcome severe shyness?

"You have to understand the dynamics of shyness. Half of change is knowing and understanding, being able to reframe a problem so it can be handled. ... You have to learn social skills. Shy people remain socially immature. They don't know how to shake hands, how to entertain, what to say next -- regardless of their education, status or business success. Learning social skills and practicing them until they master them helps overcome a feeling of inadequacy."

But, said Owen, this does nothing for the feelings of shame -- and this is where the heavy work comes in. "You have to have a confrontation with yourself and re-evaluate the system that caused the shame. You have to try to change the family" by going back and asking the questions that you weren't permitted to ask as a child.

What if the family refuses to change? "You have to do it alone, and that's pretty hard."

[Sweet Pea]

interesting article. not sure everyone here will feel it applies to them, but i identified with some of the things owen talked about. i suffered profound social rejection when i was in grade school. i became isolated from the other kids at school and just got used to living 'on the outside' of society. it didn't help that i found other reasons for avoiding people as an adult either...such as their way of thinking, which sometimes i just can't wrap my mind around. i didn't have the kind of family i could turn to, they were a big part of the problem in fact. but as i've grown older i've learned how to 'act normal' in social situations, as the author described. what owen described as 'validation' was one of the most valuable things i got from therapy. i was in my early 20's, and i had been raised by perfectionistic parents who constantly criticized and demanded. and yet i was horribly ashamed of them, and for good reasons. the therapist was able to validate my feelings that it was my perception of the situation that was correct. that i was okay and they were screwed up, lol. it really helped me take the necessary steps to leave a lot of that crap behind me and live a relatively normal life.

[rukryM]

I think I suffer from "simple shyness", since I'm shy around people I don't know and in situations where there's crowds and so on. However, I think I'm "partially" profound shy as I seem to lack the ability to make small talk and to initiate a conversation with people I don't know. I've tried to talk to my family about it, but they don't understand, they don't know how I feel, how I think and therefore not how I execute actions. The feeling of shame is absent, though, and I guess that's a proof I'm not struggling with total profound shyness. Still, I feel a bit socially immature, and I have a lot of work to do on that area.
Interesting reading, I'd love to hear what the guy would have said about me if he analyzed my personality^^.

[strawberrysweetie]

Oct 23, 2008 17:54:39 GMT -5 billd1 said:

Where does the shame come from?

From the family, said Owen. The roots are deep, and that is why the quick fix doesn't work. "How can you get over it in a few weeks when mommy and daddy taught you how to do it over a period of years? You can't. ... The sense of inadequacy is learned at an early age -- by not being validated, by not being good enough. ... There's usually an overdemanding, perfectionist parent who is never satisfied -- no matter what the kid does.

The kid doesn't quite measure up, but he's never told what it is that he doesn't measure up to. ... So he feels inadequate without knowing why. There's a lack of clarity, but the underlying sense of shame prevents the kid from saying, 'I feel inadequate,' and the denial that the family practices prevents the father from saying, 'Yes, I know. ... I felt inadequate at your age too, and I'll help you deal with it.'

This is a problem I have with psychology...the automatic assumption that family/parents are to blame for how you've come to be. I mean, family and the way you are raised is extremely important...but I don't think it's always the root cause. Sometimes, yes...and probably even often, just not always.

I've never considered my parents to be overdemanding or perfectionistic or overprotective. I've always been the extremely quiet and shy kid. I have developed strong feelings of inadequacy, but I've always felt they were there.

A better example is to study the different personalities of the children in the family. My family is quite big, and all us 'kids' seem to be quite different. If the parents are so bad, how can one child become so accomplished/comfortable/confident and another be so shy/insecure/scared? (and yes I know it's digging into that whole nature vs. nurture type of question)

Nonetheless, I give the author props for the article...it was good, esp. considering it was back in 1988!

Now, figuring out how to practice the social skills is the hard part...

[Sweet Pea]

Oct 24, 2008 15:42:03 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

Oct 23, 2008 17:54:39 GMT -5 billd1 said:

Where does the shame come from?

From the family, said Owen. The roots are deep, and that is why the quick fix doesn't work. "How can you get over it in a few weeks when mommy and daddy taught you how to do it over a period of years? You can't. ... The sense of inadequacy is learned at an early age -- by not being validated, by not being good enough. ... There's usually an overdemanding, perfectionist parent who is never satisfied -- no matter what the kid does.

The kid doesn't quite measure up, but he's never told what it is that he doesn't measure up to. ... So he feels inadequate without knowing why. There's a lack of clarity, but the underlying sense of shame prevents the kid from saying, 'I feel inadequate,' and the denial that the family practices prevents the father from saying, 'Yes, I know. ... I felt inadequate at your age too, and I'll help you deal with it.'

This is a problem I have with psychology...the automatic assumption that family/parents are to blame for how you've come to be. I mean, family and the way you are raised is extremely important...but I don't think it's always the root cause. Sometimes, yes...and probably even often, just not always.

I've never considered my parents to be overdemanding or perfectionistic or overprotective. I've always been the extremely quiet and shy kid. I have developed strong feelings of inadequacy, but I've always felt they were there.

A better example is to study the different personalities of the children in the family. My family is quite big, and all us 'kids' seem to be quite different. If the parents are so bad, how can one child become so accomplished/comfortable/confident and another be so shy/insecure/scared? (and yes I know it's digging into that whole nature vs. nurture type of question)

Nonetheless, I give the author props for the article...it was good, esp. considering it was back in 1988!

Now, figuring out how to practice the social skills is the hard part...

no, the family is not always to blame for people's psychological problems, but it often is. we have to recognize thought that even the best parents don't have total control over the kinds of experiences their kids have out in the world. the public school environment, for example, is a major culprit in the development of mental health problems as well.

[Farouche]

Strawberry -------------------
This is a problem I have with psychology...the automatic assumption that family/parents are to blame for how you've come to be. I mean, family and the way you are raised is extremely important...but I don't think it's always the root cause. Sometimes, yes...and probably even often, just not always.

I've never considered my parents to be overdemanding or perfectionistic or overprotective. I've always been the extremely quiet and shy kid. I have developed strong feelings of inadequacy, but I've always felt they were there.

A better example is to study the different personalities of the children in the family. My family is quite big, and all us 'kids' seem to be quite different. If the parents are so bad, how can one child become so accomplished/comfortable/confident and another be so shy/insecure/scared? (and yes I know it's digging into that whole nature vs. nurture type of question)

I think this is right on the money, Strawberry. Much of psychiatry seems to me more a subjective art than a science. I think there's a lot they can tell us about the way we think, reason, and relate, and talk therapy is great, and it's heartening that there are drugs out there that can help keep people from succumbing to anxiety or depression or even psychotic episodes. But I wish they would be more forthcoming about the fact that a lot of their conclusions are just speculation--informed speculation, yes, but not necessarily any closer to the truth than the musings of any armchair analyst.

Anyway, I do identify with the feeling of shame mentioned in this article, but my parents weren't over-protective or perfectionists. I was, however, and my parents often tried to encourage me to take more risks and to not feel like I had to make everything "perfect" all the time. It's true they never understood my shyness, and they would get annoyed with me for being so quiet and not making friends; however, they didn't make me shy. The most I can say is that their understanding might have made it all easier to bear. In fact, very few people were actually mean to me or rejected me during my childhood. I went to public school, and the vast majority of kids were friendly (tried to be, anyway), or solicitous, or ignored me without malice. Only a very few jerks were deliberately unkind, and I saw them for what they were.

In my case I think the underlying cause was largely genetic: I had a sensitive, insular, and hyper-critical personality from a very young age, and it manifested itself as severe shyness. To a great extent I've grown away from, though not out of, these negative traits, but I've also worked hard to overcome the accompanying timidity. I'm not cured, but I'm vastly improved from what I once was. I should mention that personally I've never had a real problem with the theory of socializing. I understood what was required of me; I knew the logistics of hand shakes and group involvement. But I would blank out in social situations to the point where I was barely able to think straight, let alone move, speak, or act normally. With long-time friends and family members, I was a normal, probably very annoying, kid.

I guess the bottom line is that, as usual, most things involving the brain and personality are multifaceted, and it's a grave mistake to go for the simplistic, catch-all explanation even if it's true for some people.

[k151]

My parents weren't bad parents.

My problem involves trust. It's very difficult for me to trust people. I can "know" someone for 10 years, but still feel just as shy and uncomfortable around them as I do around a stranger. Of course most of that may be due to the shame being described.

In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people I've ever really opened up to. My parents aren't on that short list and haven't been since I was 10 or so. It's not that they were mean to me, but they just didn't make me feel secure. Not after I was 10 or 12 or so anyhow. I think they were better when I was young.


Honestly, I think I was already a "different" kid. My parents were fairly average, they loved all their kids and were there. But it would have taken more to help me than just that.

[WinceRind]

Interesting article to read... thanks for posting!

Obviously everyone's mileage may vary, but I'm also of the opinion that it's not exactly appropriate to dump all of one's problems on the family upbringing.

I sometimes wish it was as simple as blaming it on the parents... it's actually sad, but I used to daydream about one day "confronting" them somehow and laying my shyness / social anxiety at their feet. I guess that I did some soul-searching and found that (even if this were true, which I highly doubt) there just wouldn't be any reason from it. I wouldn't get better.

What really struck me about this article is the dichotomy of the "simple shy" and "profoundly shy" -- I've never heard this before. That part really relates to me, especially the shame situation. It IS shame that I feel most of the time, even when my common sense tells me it's irrational. I'm glad to read it put to words like this by someone else.

[Sweet Pea]

one thing i've been wondering for a long time is whether we as individuals are really competent to decide whether nature or nuture made us shy. for one thing, there's the obvious lack of objectivity. we can't be truly objective about ourselves. for another thing, our memories can't be trusted. we tend to 'rewrite' them as time passes. for another, a parent who does a passable job of parenting a 10 year old or a 15 year old cannot be assumed to have also done a passable job of parenting a 6 month old, 2 year old or a 4 year old...who incidentally will probably consciously remember virtually nothing that happened during those formative years.

one thing i've observed watching parents in action over the years, is that many people emotionally abandon their very young children, finding the constant need of the infant and young child stifling. they can also be extremely impatient with the early learning process, and become quite harsh and demanding...even using inappropriate physical punishment as a training tool. now i realize many people are going to say 'not my parents! no way!'...but that may be that bias of not wanting to believe something and therefore not believing it.

i think one day the field of psychology may find that many of the 'little insults' to the developing ego really do lie at the bottom of many mental illnesses. i would imagine that many quite common experiences of early childhood could have long range effects...such as circumcision, painful injections, restraints of various kinds, isolation in a crib, playpen or empty room, painful and/or frightening medical or dental treatments. the twig is bent, so to speak, and thus the tree grows crooked.

i know psychologists and psychiatrists don't know everything, but the longer i live the more i think freud was a lot smarter than people now give him credit for.

[strawberrysweetie]

^ Still, then how do you account for extreme personality differences among siblings?

Plus, there is an 11 yr difference between me and my youngest sib and I also have a younger brother who's about 7 yrs younger than me. So I've seen my parents' parenting.

[Sweet Pea]

Oct 25, 2008 1:23:53 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

^ Still, then how do you account for extreme personality differences among siblings?

Plus, there is an 11 yr difference between me and my youngest sib and I also have a younger brother who's about 7 yrs younger than me. So I've seen my parents' parenting.

well, i think one assumption is that all parents parent all of their children the same. i don't think that's true. in fact, i know it's not. another assumption is that an observed parent who knows they are observed will behave in exactly the same way they will when they are not observed. i don't believe that's always true either.

[strawberrysweetie]

Oct 25, 2008 1:35:02 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

Oct 25, 2008 1:23:53 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

^ Still, then how do you account for extreme personality differences among siblings?

Plus, there is an 11 yr difference between me and my youngest sib and I also have a younger brother who's about 7 yrs younger than me. So I've seen my parents' parenting.

well, i think one assumption is that all parents parent all of their children the same. i don't think that's true. in fact, i know it's not. another assumption is that an observed parent who knows they are observed will behave in exactly the same way they will when they are not observed. i don't believe that's always true either.

And now to this I say, I also have 3 older sibs...none that are as shy as me by any means. So, in theory--they are 6, 8, and 9 yrs older than me--they observed my parents parenting me.

[Sweet Pea]

Oct 25, 2008 1:41:13 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

Oct 25, 2008 1:35:02 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

well, i think one assumption is that all parents parent all of their children the same. i don't think that's true. in fact, i know it's not. another assumption is that an observed parent who knows they are observed will behave in exactly the same way they will when they are not observed. i don't believe that's always true either.

And now to this I say, I also have 3 older sibs...none that are as shy as me by any means. So, in theory--they are 6, 8, and 9 yrs older than me--they observed my parents parenting me.

please do not assume that my participation in this philisophical discussion in any way implies that you're two individual parents did something to cause you to be shy. i have no way of knowing that, and i'm not assuming that. but i'd be an idiot to ignore what i've seen with my own eyes over the decades that i've observed parents in action, including myself and my ex's. i'm just stating the facts ma'am, lol. don't take it personally, please. it's not meant that way.

[strawberrysweetie]

Oct 25, 2008 1:49:10 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

Oct 25, 2008 1:41:13 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

And now to this I say, I also have 3 older sibs...none that are as shy as me by any means. So, in theory--they are 6, 8, and 9 yrs older than me--they observed my parents parenting me.

please do not assume that my participation in this philisophical discussion in any way implies that you're two individual parents did something to cause you to be shy. i have no way of knowing that, and i'm not assuming that. but i'd be an idiot to ignore what i've seen with my own eyes over the decades that i've observed parents in action, including myself and my ex's. i'm just stating the facts ma'am, lol. don't take it personally, please. it's not meant that way.

^ Okay...I wasn't necessarily taking it personally. More or less, I was demonstrating my take on things...my reasoning for why I said what I said. How placing automatic blame on parents is not always an accurate thing to do..and possibly even detrimental. There are so many variables to take into consideration.

And anyway, what's done is done. Knowing root causes can help, but focusing primarily on placing blame on someone and coming to depend on 'changing' them (which the article seemed to suggest) in order to begin to heal oneself seems off. Once coming to terms with the past, one must not expect change from others but realize that one only has the power to move on and change him/herself.

[Sweet Pea]

Oct 25, 2008 2:15:31 GMT -5 @strawberrysweetie said:

Oct 25, 2008 1:49:10 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

please do not assume that my participation in this philisophical discussion in any way implies that you're two individual parents did something to cause you to be shy. i have no way of knowing that, and i'm not assuming that. but i'd be an idiot to ignore what i've seen with my own eyes over the decades that i've observed parents in action, including myself and my ex's. i'm just stating the facts ma'am, lol. don't take it personally, please. it's not meant that way.

^ Okay...I wasn't necessarily taking it personally. More or less, I was demonstrating my take on things...my reasoning for why I said what I said. How placing automatic blame on parents is not always an accurate thing to do..and possibly even detrimental. There are so many variables to take into consideration.

And anyway, what's done is done. Knowing root causes can help, but focusing primarily on placing blame on someone and coming to depend on 'changing' them (which the article seemed to suggest) in order to begin to heal oneself seems off. Once coming to terms with the past, one must not expect change from others but realize that one only has the power to move on and change him/herself.

yep. but coming from the point of view of a psychologist, you are usually interested in causation because that is often the basis for your theoretical approach. besides, scientists always want to know why.