Transgender People...real or fake?

[NoPillsGonnaCure]

I love to debate this.  I'll take pro, and you take con.  Well, you can take anything you want... just be real.

And don't think you have to be nice to me because of who I am,
because I am also a Briggs Myers INTP, which means a cold logical person.

[Scotty]

They are indeed real men and women.

[silence]

Went for being the gender they identify with.

When I was at university one of your post graduate students was transgender and she told us a lot about what it was like and it all really stuck with me.

I am interested in hearing the other views but so far no one's ever given me anything that creditable.

It's mostly just comes of as being being threatened or bigoted

[hellscythe]

I think it's OK to be the way you feel but, as with everything, there are some people who will exploit this or make some ridiculous stuff.
I've seen videos of transgender people saying that not being attracted to them is transphobic, which for me is going way too far.
Also there is something like being Gender fluid which is, for me, complete bullshit. I can't grasp the idea of feeling like a woman at one moment and then an hour later you feel like a man.

Summarising I think people should go with who they are, but we can't be shackled by the political correctness, and we need to call bullshit where it's needs to be called.
If we keep this PC society going, soon we will find ourselves in a world where there will be more censorship than that of Nazi Germany or Soviet Union...

[NoPillsGonnaCure]

Dec 26, 2015 20:04:24 GMT -5 hellscythe said:

I've seen videos of transgender people saying that not being attracted to them is transphobic, which for me is going way too far.

I'd have to agree with you on this.  There is a difference between being attracted to a gender, and being attracted to a biological sex.  A trans person that has had all the surgeries can look a lot like a physical male or female, but won't be exactly like a born physical male or female.  And some trans people choose or are unable to have all the surgeries. 

I think it's perfectly ok to be attracted to some aspect of biology, and if the person doesn't have it, you're not attracted.

Dec 26, 2015 18:04:24 GMT -7 hellscythe said:

Also there is something like being Gender fluid which is, for me, complete bullshit. I can't grasp the idea of feeling like a woman at one moment and then an hour later you feel like a man.

Not being gender fluid, I can see how you would think that.  But we really don't know too much about gender, and why it is, and how it is formed.  And if biology can be so "messy" that intersex people can be born,  then perhaps gender can be just as messy.  I give them the benefit of the doubt.

After all, I appreciated it when people give me the benefit of the doubt.

[skyhint]

Maybe you can explain something to me. When I was a little girl my mom told me that girls can do anything boys can do. I have never felt limited because I am female. What did you gain by becoming a man? Also, what does it mean to feel like a man or feel like a woman? I have never felt either of these things. I mean I have felt feelings that can be linked to gender stereotypes, but I don't feel like I am obligated to conform to the stereotype of my gender so when I feel "masculine" I don't think 'I feel like a man' I just think 'I feel strong' (I just used strong as an example of a "masculine" trait)

Overall I am not conforable with ascribing a gender to things that don't have a biological sex like clothing, hobbies, or emotions and behaviours. I acknowledge general trends but it is not universal so I don't believe it should be done.

This is not anything anti-transgender, because people transitioning does not affect me I am not bothered by it in the least. I support people's right to live as they choose as long as they don't harm anything. I just want to understand better.

[yoloman]

Feb 11, 2016 21:21:49 GMT -5 skyhint said:

Maybe you can explain something to me. When I was a little girl my mom told me that girls can do anything boys can do. I have never felt limited because I am female. What did you gain by becoming a man? Also, what does it mean to feel like a man or feel like a woman? I have never felt either of these things. I mean I have felt feelings that can be linked to gender stereotypes, but I don't feel like I am obligated to conform to the stereotype of my gender so when I feel "masculine" I don't think 'I feel like a man' I just think 'I feel strong' (I just used strong as an example of a "masculine" trait)

Overall I am not conforable with ascribing a gender to things that don't have a biological sex like clothing, hobbies, or emotions and behaviours. I acknowledge general trends but it is not universal so I don't believe it should be done.

This is not anything anti-transgender, because people transitioning does not affect me I am not bothered by it in the least. I support people's right to live as they choose as long as they don't harm anything. I just want to understand better.

Bump. I want to know this too.

[Outcast]

I have always wondered why there are people who are gay. I think it has more to do with their environment and the kind of people they hang out with. That more or less influences this kind of thinking?

But reading this link. www.livescience.com/33987-gay-men.html

Maybe there is some genetic factors involved after all. I dunno.

[marle]

May 20, 2016 3:14:39 GMT -5 Outcast said:

I have always wondered why there are people who are gay. I think it has more to do with their environment and the kind of people they hang out with. That more or less influences this kind of thinking?

But reading this link. www.livescience.com/33987-gay-men.html

Maybe there is some genetic factors involved after all. I dunno.

That's interesting. I had heard of the theory before - women who reproduce more are somehow more likely to have gay sons - but I didn't know that there was now research to support it.

I suppose, as with a lot of research that this is not yet conclusive, but it's an interesting possibility.

That being said, I want to point out there are lots of traits that don't have any apparent naturally/sexually selected for causes, but we still recognize them as in-born. To give an obvious example, some people are born infertile. We don't assume that other people influenced them to become infertile.

[Outcast]

May 22, 2016 20:44:17 GMT -5 marle said:

May 20, 2016 3:14:39 GMT -5 Outcast said:

I have always wondered why there are people who are gay. I think it has more to do with their environment and the kind of people they hang out with. That more or less influences this kind of thinking?

But reading this link. www.livescience.com/33987-gay-men.html

Maybe there is some genetic factors involved after all. I dunno.

That's interesting. I had heard of the theory before - women who reproduce more are somehow more likely to have gay sons - but I didn't know that there was now research to support it.

I suppose, as with a lot of research that this is not yet conclusive, but it's an interesting possibility.

That being said, I want to point out there are lots of traits that don't have any apparent naturally/sexually selected for causes, but we still recognize them as in-born. To give an obvious example, some people are born infertile. We don't assume that other people influenced them to become infertile.

Well, i think being infertile is more of a physical trait compared to when a certain individual thinks he/she is gay. So i am more inclined to think that this kind of "mentality" is more or less influenced in some way by environmental factors.

That being said, i thought of "shyness" as another good example that one could try to figure out if it's an inborn/genetic thing, or one that was brought about or influenced by environmental factors.

I found a few good articles on the subject.

shyness.bafree.net/is-shyness-inborn.php

articles.latimes.com/1988-04-08/news/vw-1120_1_shy-child

While there seems to be for some infants/babies to have inhibited temperaments, the articles cannot really conclude that "shyness" is an inborn trait. But said some are more predisposed to be shy because of genetic factors. Though they add that not all grow up to be shy.

Here is another good article that tackles the question, plus a few more interesting things about shyness.

www.shyfaq.com/shyness.html