|
Post by wonkothesane on Oct 28, 2005 11:52:48 GMT -5
Are we born somewhere on the scale or do we get conditiones and learn it? Now granted they are two very concrete terms that I don't really belive in, but essentially I think everybody would agree that 'evil' acts occur everyday even if we dissagree what those acts are.
Another quote which I can't remenber who said it- Idiots read Nietzsche's beyond good and evil and thought/used it was an excuse to do evil.
|
|
|
Post by Tal on Oct 28, 2005 12:13:08 GMT -5
'Good' and 'evil' are just labels to describe what society thinks are positive and negative events/actions etc, at any given time. We may be born with certain characteristics which predispose us to act in certain ways, or we may be socialised to act in certain ways, and in doing so, we might be placed on a good/evil scale by those around us, but we're not born good or evil per se.
How do we define something as good or evil? Well things which threaten the individual, their lifestyle, privacy etc might be candidates for being 'evil'. Things we're conditioned to believe from birth are candidates for being 'good' or 'evil'. I suppose morals and religious texts also determine how we view things and people - especially since religion likes to divide the world into good vs evil.
Humans seem to like conflict in life, so perhaps dividing everything into good/evil is a way of producing that conflict.
|
|
|
Post by sushiboat on Oct 28, 2005 12:38:39 GMT -5
Good and Evil are our best approximations for what works and what doesn't work for our species in light of The Way Things Are.
|
|
|
Post by shypsychologyguy on Oct 28, 2005 21:41:57 GMT -5
a society that does not have a biblical foundation has no where to place context with the word evil. The ten commandments were the established law and noone can say they havent broken any of them. because they are the establisher of good and evil people want them removed from anyplace they see it because it reminds them of their sinful nature.
God created both good and evil , not so much evil as the ability for man to choose between the two. He created everyone to choose to follow him but if everyone was made like robots that would not be true praise or love. that is why none of us can say we have never broken the ten commandments.
l
|
|
|
Post by pansy on Oct 28, 2005 21:51:16 GMT -5
The ten commandments were the established law and noone can say they havent broken any of them. because they are the establisher of good and evil people want them removed from anyplace they see it because it reminds them of their sinful nature. so you don't believe the separation of church and state is a good thing?
|
|
|
Post by Bodhi on Oct 28, 2005 21:59:06 GMT -5
a society that does not have a biblical foundation has no where to place context with the word evil. That is blatantly false, considering there are billions of people in the world that don't believe in the Bible yet have a context of good and evil. Take for example India, they are based on a Hindu tradition and don't use the Bible as the foundation for their society. Do you think they have no way to tell the difference between Good and Evil? Of course they know Good and Evil, so don't just say a Biblical foundation is neccessary, it is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Tal on Oct 29, 2005 4:47:17 GMT -5
a society that does not have a biblical foundation has no where to place context with the word evil. Good and evil existed long, long before the Bible did. In fact modern religions adopted ideas of heaven and hell/good and bad from their predecessors - Pagan religions. The Bible is simply people taking these ideas of good and evil and making some stories out of them.
|
|
|
Post by zerocharisma! on Nov 20, 2005 18:38:03 GMT -5
I am currently reading Nietzsche's "The Genealogy of Morals". Pretty interesting stuff. In the first essay of the book he makes the argument that the concepts of "good" and "bad" were invented by aristocratic people in order to distinguish themselves from the common people. "Good" and "evil", on the other hand, were invented by the resentful common people in order to distinguish themselves from the "evil" aristocratic people.
Personally I agree that good, bad and evil are human creations and not universal truths. The universe is a very big place. The only place in the universe where morals can possibly exist, as far as I know, is the relatively small planet of Earth. Morals only make sense in the context of human interaction. Morals can only exist in the minds of humans.
Just my $0.02.
|
|
marcus
Junior Member
Posts: 66
|
Post by marcus on Nov 20, 2005 20:06:04 GMT -5
Without 'humanity'/sentience - self awareness and a theory of mind (recognising that other sentient beings are discrete, self aware actors) - good and evil don't exist? Mmm, yes... but what about free will? If I know _everything_ about you, absolutely everthing that ever happened to you, and how it made you feel, and if can analyse it minutely; can I not predict everything you will ever do in a given situation? And make that broader, if I know everything _about_ everything, how each molecule interacts with every other molecule, everywhere in the universe, can't I predict every situation that will happen? Therefore, if I can predict every situation that will ever arise to you, and can also predict your reaction to it... is it accurate to say you have free will? Aren't you just predictably ( ) reacting to given stimuli in light of your experience and innate predisposition? And without free will, you're not making a choice between a good action and an evil action at all. Good and evil just become societal points of reference to be compared and controlled. Aaaawww... I just made myself sad!
|
|
|
Post by shytothebone on Nov 20, 2005 23:17:06 GMT -5
I think good and evil (right or wrong) has everything to do with influence, education and awareness. Anyone with a positive influence in someones life like parents a pastor a teacher or even god ends up being a good person in general. I never had these influences though and I believe that I ended up being a decent person and have never really done anything evil. I assume that my awareness and education of life and not necessarily school has lead me in the right direction so far.
|
|
|
Post by wagnerr on Nov 20, 2005 23:41:28 GMT -5
The ten commandments were the established law and noone can say they havent broken any of them. because they are the establisher of good and evil people want them removed from anyplace they see it because it reminds them of their sinful nature. so you don't believe the separation of church and state is a good thing? Hmm, interesting topic there Pansy. While i think, myself, that religion should be a private matter, i also don't think the US Constuitution should be used to destroy religion in public life. EVeryone should be able to speek freely about their religion. That's the 1st ammendment there, and religious freedom falls under both sections there. Oh, hey Pansy, i'm not directing this at you. You just brought up the subject of Separation of Church and State. I'm just enlarging the discussion, nothing more.
|
|
|
Post by wagnerr on Nov 20, 2005 23:46:21 GMT -5
a society that does not have a biblical foundation has no where to place context with the word evil. Good and evil existed long, long before the Bible did. In fact modern religions adopted ideas of heaven and hell/good and bad from their predecessors - Pagan religions. The Bible is simply people taking these ideas of good and evil and making some stories out of them. Not precisely, man. True, much of the OT is stories, yes, but these are the only real histories of the Jewish people that they have. For them, it is more than just stories. It's a connection to their history. Aside from some Roman sources, there are few written accounts of the Hebrews and what their predecessors went through. Also, much of the OT also contains written law. So i wouldn't discount the bible just because it's religious. I know you aren't, but i know many people that do. The bible is more than just a theocratic statement.
|
|
|
Post by pansy on Nov 21, 2005 0:39:56 GMT -5
so you don't believe the separation of church and state is a good thing? Hmm, interesting topic there Pansy. While i think, myself, that religion should be a private matter, i also don't think the US Constuitution should be used to destroy religion in public life. EVeryone should be able to speek freely about their religion. That's the 1st ammendment there, and religious freedom falls under both sections there. Oh, hey Pansy, i'm not directing this at you. You just brought up the subject of Separation of Church and State. I'm just enlarging the discussion, nothing more. i agree, as long as no one is compelled to listen.
|
|
marcus
Junior Member
Posts: 66
|
Post by marcus on Nov 21, 2005 18:34:32 GMT -5
The bible's a mishmash of history, folk tales, and a list of societal laws and customs. Fascinating document about its time and people, certainly. It also offers a fairly disjointed system of thought about the universe, man's place in it, and the relationship we're meant to observe to the God it proposes. It's been a part of the basis for most Western thought on morality, too.
But dinnae say it's the arbiter of good and evil per se - it was only started a few thousand years ago! Recorded history goes back at least 6000 - 7000 years, prehistory 10,000, and there've been homo sapiens for 100,000 to 130,000 years (that's not even mentioning other species of humans like neanderthals, homo heidelbergensis etc.). Did we suddenly only get good and evil c.3500 years ago?
|
|
|
Post by wagnerr on Nov 21, 2005 23:58:48 GMT -5
The bible's a mishmash of history, folk tales, and a list of societal laws and customs. Fascinating document about its time and people, certainly. It also offers a fairly disjointed system of thought about the universe, man's place in it, and the relationship we're meant to observe to the God it proposes. It's been a part of the basis for most Western thought on morality, too. But dinnae say it's the arbiter of good and evil per se - it was only started a few thousand years ago! Recorded history goes back at least 6000 - 7000 years, prehistory 10,000, and there've been homo sapiens for 100,000 to 130,000 years (that's not even mentioning other species of humans like neanderthals, homo heidelbergensis etc.). Did we suddenly only get good and evil c.3500 years ago? It is my opinion that the concepts of good and evil developed from defense of propety rights, over land mostly.
|
|