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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jan 11, 2006 23:51:17 GMT -5
im not sure how big a news story this is now. Fox news reporeted it and said that other networks were not reporting it because it justifies the war.
12+ sources have linked sadam hussien with alquada and apparently they found training sites where 2000 alqua members were training. THe expert also said they had a bunch of laptops and desktops and other stuff and have yet to fully understand the extent of the find.
I was having doubts about the war at one point blogedd that it was groupthink but in light of this I think the war was no mistake.
any thoughts on this
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Post by wagnerr on Jan 12, 2006 1:41:46 GMT -5
Watch out what FOX says, SPG. Don't just watch them alone; watch NBC and CNN too. Between these three channels, you can pretty much get a much more accurate picture of what's going on in the world. You just have sort through all the crap, that's all. In any case, i have not heard of this new development. I knew Hussein had some past links to Al-Queda, but no one's for sure about it in recent affairs. And i don't think we'll ever know the whole truth, either. But i think getting rid of Hussein was reason enough to fight the war. That's my opinion. I didn't need any WMD crap to convince me. I just hope now things'll quiet down a little. Bush is hoping to withdraw one hundred thousand soldiers by this summer. I hope he's right, and the new Iraq govt will be more able to defend itself. I also hope Israel will keep their to own business now, and stop stirring up the Arabs. I also hope the new Iran development doesn't escalate into a full blown UN action against them. I don't know why they're starting up nuclear research now, of all times; it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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Post by shytothebone on Jan 12, 2006 2:14:46 GMT -5
First of all the whole WMD's intelligence wasn't just the USA. Everyone including China Russia France and Germany all thought Saddam had WMD"s. If they didn't why did the UN send weapons inspectors in to Iraq all those years? and why did Saddam keep giving them the run around? He might not have had WMD's in Iraq but he had capabilities to make them and he had them before and used them.
Second Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people by mass murder. That in itself is a good reason to get your ass kicked. Anyone not just Saddam who does this to their own people needs to pay the price.
Third. I believe after Saddam is executed things will change dramatically in Iraq. All those people are still so scared shitless of Saddam it isn't funny. With his death they will finally realize that they will have more control over their lives and they will stand up and crush the insurgency. The Sunnis and Shiits are starting to work closer together now. And 11 million people voted for the first time in an unbiased election in over 30 years. That says a lot.
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Post by shytothebone on Jan 12, 2006 2:24:33 GMT -5
I just hope now things'll quiet down a little. Bush is hoping to withdraw one hundred thousand soldiers by this summer. I hope he's right, and the new Iraq govt will be more able to defend itself. I also hope Israel will keep their to own business now, and stop stirring up the Arabs. I also hope the new Iran development doesn't escalate into a full blown UN action against them. I don't know why they're starting up nuclear research now, of all times; it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What is Israel doing to stir up Arabs? Iran has been trying to make nukes Russ not do research. Your right it doesn't make sense but the Iranian government never makes sense. They want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The Iranian president said it himself. He also said he doesn't believe the Holocaust never happened. The Iranian president is a member of hammas and is believed to be an intricate part of the Beirut embassy bombing in 83.
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Post by wagnerr on Jan 12, 2006 3:27:42 GMT -5
I just hope now things'll quiet down a little. Bush is hoping to withdraw one hundred thousand soldiers by this summer. I hope he's right, and the new Iraq govt will be more able to defend itself. I also hope Israel will keep their to own business now, and stop stirring up the Arabs. I also hope the new Iran development doesn't escalate into a full blown UN action against them. I don't know why they're starting up nuclear research now, of all times; it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What is Israel doing to stir up Arabs? Iran has been trying to make nukes Russ not do research. Your right it doesn't make sense but the Iranian government never makes sense. They want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The Iranian president said it himself. He also said he doesn't believe the Holocaust never happened. The Iranian president is a member of hammas and is believed to be an intricate part of the Beirut embassy bombing in 83. Oh, i'm just sick of seeing the Israeli side of the whole conflict over there, that's all. The Israeli police go in and arrest Palestinians by the hundreds and hold them in jail for weeks at a time, all because of a few suspected terrorists have family connections in these towns. I know what FOX said about Iran; i don't doubt the general gist of it. I only want to see any action taken against Iran done on the international level, that's all. If Iran is making nukes, well, then the world needs to stop it, not just the USand British. An international system needs to share the risks, as well as the rewards. I know that the Persians doubt the Holocaust happened; if so, they are full of shit. However, now the Israelis are becoming what their own ancestors endured in the 1940's; they are persecuting a whole group of people over there for what they are. I don't agree with the US policy towards supporting Israel, and i am no fan of the radical Zionists for said reasons. However, i do agree with you about Hussein; he killed upwards of half a million people, or else tortured or evicted them from their lands, and i think people have forgotton about that. He needed to go, and i don't think the media is giving us the whole picture about what has occured over there, either recently or in the last ten years. CNN said today that nearly $250 billion has been spent over there in the last few years. Let's be blunt; unless the soldiers are dining on imported lobster everyday, there's no way that only two hundred thousand American soldiers could have spent that much money on their own tanks and aircraft, and lving expenses I have a few friends over there in the army, and they confirm much of my suspicions about what i believe has occurred in the last three years. The bulk of the money is going to help develop the Iraqi infastructure and the new govt. Schools, hospitals, govt buildings, roads, water wells, irrigation, and electrical facilities are being constructed there, which had previously not existed before. Training and instruction is being exercised for the new officials and military in Iraq. And yes, the oil industry is also getting back on its feet.
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Post by shytothebone on Jan 12, 2006 4:50:13 GMT -5
Russ are you antisemitic?
I believe that if a bunch of uneducated radical fundamentalist that hijack a culture and a people and use that to kill Innocent men women and children like hammas and other terrorist do to the Palestinian people than Israel has to do what it has to do period. They cant think about innocence because they have been raped of theirs and will always have to look over their shoulders.
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Post by Tal on Jan 12, 2006 4:54:03 GMT -5
I think most of the accusations of links between Saddam and Al Quaeda are false. The US probably once had more links to Osama than Saddam ever did.
I can't say I oppose military action based on preventing massive Human Rights abuses. I guess that's one point where I differ from most liberals and leftists. However, if we're to believe 30,000 or more people have died as a result of the war, then we might well have aided in equalling Saddam's death toll, which to me is unnacceptable - just indicates how poorly planned and executed this action was.
What saddens me most, is that we only intervene with claims of 'preventing genocide' when the country has a rather large oil reserve underneath its soil. If Iraq didn't have oil and hadn't been interested in its national defence/expansion, then Saddam would have remained a good friend of the West, no doubt.
It's really too early to say whether Iraq is moving in a positive or negative direction. The motive are the only thing that can be seriously debated, and those suggest the war was done for economic reasons, not moral ones. Maybe 'survival of the fittest' is an acceptable for some people in international politics...I dunno.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 12, 2006 7:21:09 GMT -5
The war was justified on the basis of the threat of Iraqs WMDs and it should be judged on this. Both the US and UK governments said the war was not to liberate the Iraqi people. WMDs were not found so the war was unjustifiable based on the reasons given. If the goverments had said they were going to fight the war to free Iraq then you could judge them on that basis, but they didnt and they were wrong. The interesting thing is, if they say something like that again who will believe them? If they start saying "we have to attack North Korea because they are making nuclear weapons" people will not trust them, certainly here in the UK anyway.
SPG, do not suddenly change your mind based on FOX news coming out with this crap, you have to look at other sources like Russ suggested.
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Post by MrNice on Jan 12, 2006 11:07:57 GMT -5
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Post by zaab on Jan 12, 2006 12:38:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I heard about that trillion dollar estimate. I don't know if people realize that our government is playing Russian roulette with our economy. There could be some very austere times in our future and if that happens, support for the war will dwindle down to only the most delusional. But the stated reasons for the war have been proved false and misguided so many times I've not even going to bother with that debate.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jan 12, 2006 12:56:21 GMT -5
I recently went to the halacaust museum in D.C. and after going there I beleive that to hold Saddam acountable for his mass murders was what the Un should have done all along but they have no backbone.
Really we should have dealt with this in the first gulf war it may have been easier then but then again the liberals would be having a fit .
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Post by wonkothesane on Jan 12, 2006 13:22:40 GMT -5
I think my personal point of view should seem obvious- If you support the war then stop posting about it, join up and fight the fight you think you believe in rather than letting others do it for you and getting killed in the process.
I still find it hard to believe that there was actually somebody dumb enough to invade a country that can not exist without a ruthless dictator (cause it was one of those straight lines on the map places from WWI) or as part of an arab super-state (don't think that will be allowed!), and did not see what was coming down the line. It is a shame but its a fact of life that the human race is a barbaric primitive arrogant little organism, that has with very few exceptions, ever shown itself worthy of the gift that was bestowed to it- all side equally stupid to achieve there own transient ends. See you round the U-Bend
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Post by sushiboat on Jan 12, 2006 13:37:29 GMT -5
I think my personal point of view should seem obvious- If you support the war then stop posting about it, join up and fight the fight you think you believe in rather than letting others do it for you and getting killed in the process. I agree. Vote with your feet. The Army has a difficult time getting new recruits. Soldiers are exhausted from too much time in Iraq. There is a real need for more personnel.
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Post by shytothebone on Jan 12, 2006 13:43:35 GMT -5
I would have joined the military out of high school but the wouldn't take me. They don't take a lot of people who want to fight. It seems you have to be perfect in order to wear a uniform or perfect to do anything for that matter.
As far as justifying the war I don't believe any war is justifiable. Sometimes it is necessary but it is never justified.
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Post by pansy on Jan 12, 2006 13:58:59 GMT -5
i want the bleeding to stop.
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