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Post by annaa on Jan 16, 2006 19:38:55 GMT -5
After a conversation I had earlier this week, i'm curious to see what people think.
Is having a monarch a waste of time? Or do you think it's important to have a king/queen, as it's part of our (British) herritage?
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Post by Tal on Jan 17, 2006 7:46:18 GMT -5
Personally I don't have many problems with the monarchy as it is today. It's purely symbolic, part of our cultural and heritage and the only argument one can put for departing from the tradition is the cost involved in funding the royal residences and lifestyles.
However IMO the monarchy pays for itself in several ways:
- It attracts tourists (local and international)
- Provides (directly and indirectly) a whole range of jobs, e.g. media, catering, security, publishing
- Carries out a large number of public functions, particularly in promoting charities
- Provides us with a more 'mature 'national symbol which generally doesn't involve the excessive flag waving and senseless patriotism of many other nations
All that for £30-40 million pounds per year isn't too bad IMO.
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Post by Paulinus on Jan 17, 2006 8:02:28 GMT -5
I'm no fan of the monarchy and it wouldnt bother me if they where abolished, however I think they could be worth keeping around for the reasons Tal mentioned. Although I'm not sure they are value for money, they do seem to get money for pointless things sometimes.
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Post by Samantha on Jan 17, 2006 8:23:42 GMT -5
I feel embarrassed by the fact we still have a monarchy. To me they are nothing but a symbol of how stagnant we are. I don't want tourists to come and look at some rambling old inbreds. I want tourists to come and see great works of modernity and innovation. I don't want to look back, I want to look forward.
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Post by Paulinus on Jan 17, 2006 8:43:07 GMT -5
I don't want tourists to come and look at some rambling old inbreds. I want tourists to come and see great works of modernity and innovation. I see no reason why tourists can't come and see both. Actually better yet maybe we should attempt to combine the two perhaps by creating a cyborg royal family  ;D |
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Post by Samantha on Jan 17, 2006 9:12:49 GMT -5
Actually better yet maybe we should attempt to combine the two perhaps by creating a cyborg royal family ;D Hahahahahahahaha!!!! hahahahahahahahaha!!! hahahahahahahaaha!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D hahhahahahahahahaha!!! ROBOFOP!!! LOL!!!! Oh that tickled me ;D Goshity gosh, I needed that. I see no reason why tourists can't come and see both. True Pauly, very true and wise of you as always. Not much of a debate though my dear  ;D |
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Post by sushiboat on Jan 17, 2006 11:33:06 GMT -5
How about a monarchy reality show? The advertising revenues would cover their expenses.
Who Wants to Marry a Prince? Royal Survivor, where each royal gets to bring a butler, a maid, and a gardener to the island. The Royeal World.
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Post by KidCharlemagne on Jan 17, 2006 13:31:54 GMT -5
Cromwell had the right idea...
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Post by Samantha on Jan 17, 2006 13:34:06 GMT -5
lol that's beautiful punnery. Much of the modern royal family already has the air of absurdity and false reality that accompanies those shows. However my personal favourite would be Battle Royal ;D |
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Post by wagnerr on Jan 17, 2006 13:49:06 GMT -5
I feel embarrassed by the fact we still have a monarchy. To me they are nothing but a symbol of how stagnant we are. I don't want tourists to come and look at some rambling old inbreds. I want tourists to come and see great works of modernity and innovation. I don't want to look back, I want to look forward. Too late; i already did see everything and all things British.  Seems to me that the British system is composed of a great compromise. Yall still have a stagnant, royal monarchy in place, yet they have ceremonial powers at best. On top of that, yall have a Constitutional system much the US one. In fact, our system is modeled on yall's. Parliament itself represents this compromise. The King/PM represent the centralized authority common to the Old Order of Europe. The Lords represent the large land owning and business classes, in theory at least. And the Commons represent the ordinary citizens. Again, in theory. The Anglican church also seems to represent a great compromise. Instead of having religious radicals running amuck everywhere, the Anglican church is a largely stately one that for a long time held great authority over the bureacracy and political matters of the country. In addition, the Anglican church also is an evolved form of Catholicism and Protestantism, with more emphasis on the latter. What i don't entirely understand is that main sources of wealth the British economy still has. Obviously, the EU has confused this in my mind even more. Could one of you Brits explain this to me a bit better?  Yes, let's just cut off the head of the govt when whenever we don't approve of his religious wars. Or his wife, for that matter.  Anyway, the Cromwellian protectorate only seems to prove my point, i think. After that episode, the monarchy was restored, of course with conditions. This was the compromise. |
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Post by Samantha on Jan 17, 2006 15:41:44 GMT -5
What i don't entirely understand is that main sources of wealth the British economy still has. Obviously, the EU has confused this in my mind even more. Could one of you Brits explain this to me a bit better? Do you mean ... what main sources of wealth...? or the church stuff? To be honest I couldn't help on either lol. Anyway, the Cromwellian protectorate only seems to prove my point, i think. After that episode, the monarchy was restored, of course with conditions. This was the compromise. I'm no history buff but as far as I know (God bless wikipedia lol) Cromwell simply wanted the crown to rule with parliament, not get rid of the monarchy completely. When Charlie was captured Olly wanted him back in power and to work alongside each other but Charlie being an arrogant prick king wouldn't accept that as he believed he had divine right to rule. So I think Charlie kind of kept Olly sweet by agreeing with him, then he escaped and war broke out again. Thus when he lost again Charlie was killed and eventually the monarchy was restored but with less power. So yes it was a compromise lol but it was meant to be from the start. |
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Post by mere phantom on Jan 19, 2006 22:40:47 GMT -5
As an American, I can basically only say, HELL YES!!! Screw tradition, if you want tradition maybe going back to a dictatorship might be nice also |
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Post by Tal on Jan 20, 2006 7:09:19 GMT -5
erm...dictatorship?  Tradition and historical political situations are two distinct 'things'. One can quite easily keep past traditions whilst living in a modern society with modern political ideas. In fact, IMO, destroying some traditions can be a shortcut to dictatorship or centralisation of power. I'm probably the only left-winger who has some respect for Edmund Burke and his writings regarding traditions...hahah  |
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Post by sushiboat on Jan 20, 2006 12:00:01 GMT -5
I'm probably the only left-winger who has some respect for Edmund Burke and his writings regarding traditions...hahah No, you're not. When I first read Reflections on the Revolution in France, I didn't like Burke. I thought that the metaphor of society as an organism was just an excuse to preserve the status quo. But over the years, I've seen the importance of balancing traditional culture with new ideas, instead of coming in and saying, "Freedom, democracy, rights, markets, get with it!" It's too bad that the so-called conservative leaders in the US are in fact wild-eyed radicals. |
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Post by Buzzz on Jan 20, 2006 14:08:07 GMT -5
Hey, if you think the British monarchy is embarassing, you should come over here and look at our head of state. I see no problem with the monarchy- it's not as if they have any real power. If you abolished the monarchy, what then? Would you have a President elected by Parliament, which would have the same (non) powers as the Monarch? What's the difference? I've always sort of liked Elizabeth- she seems like she doesn't take any crap. Although Charles seems like a twit. William will make in interesting King. |
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