Compulsory ID Cards

[Sigh]

I just got this forward which I thought might make for interesting discussion... I don't know much about the ID card thing myself except for the basics so I don't if all of this is true but anyway....

Compulsory ID Cards

You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register)., where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there. There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence status, and many other private and personal facts about you.

There is unlimited space for every other detail of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every
pharmacy, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented. This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £399 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR. Restaurants and off licenses will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe. If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card, or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving license you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed
databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just
as every other business will be. This means that each of these
entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and
detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number. These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of
your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally.

It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a
detailed dossier of all your activities. Certainly, the government will
have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat - all accessible via a single unique number in a central database. This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your
name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.

The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID
Card will be issued to you wether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport. Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to
withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favor of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards will not stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', which in any case, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be
measured in billions according to the LSE. This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

[GreenFerret]

Sounds a bit like Social Security numbers here (I dunno if you all already have something like that or not). The easy access by private companies--ANY private company--seems weird; but I'd be suspicious as to how much of that may be exaggerated or completely fabricated, seeing as it's an email forward. Someone should look up the actual deal here. Maybe I'll have a look later on if I get the urg.

[annaa]

I think they're a silly idea.
The cost of them is going to be ridiculous, and there's no guarentee they'll even be that useful. I mean, if passports can be faked by terrorists, why can't these cards? What's so special about them?

[nats]

I think they're a really really bad idea.
They were sort of introduced in britain, as far as i know, before one of the wars, to help get all the young men in the army- so pretty much it's because we're expecting a major war.

It's gonna be like gattacca, with people knowing everything about you, trying to get jobs and things, people will know if you have minor driving offences, or stupid little things.

And the part about preventing benefit fraud. most people who commit benefit fraud are actually people who really need the money and find it hard to get it, becasue it can be really really hard to prove that you need benefits.
My mum used to work in a job to do with housing, and when she went to meetings they would show the people who cheated on benefits and the poeople who didn't get benefits they were entitled to, there were far more not getting what they're entitled to and therefore that's amuch larger propblem.

I think benefit cards will make it like a george orwell big brother idea, people are entitled to privacy, not complete control by the goverment.

[wagnerr]

Let me ask a question here; are these ID cards that a British citizen would be required to carry around with him/her? Or just mandatory to have?

[alwaysalone]

Russman, it sounds to me if I'm reading Sigh's post right, that the British citizen would have to show and swipe their card whenever they go to the licquor store, pharmacy, or wherever.

Lucca, I agree with you, it DOES sound a lot like George Orwell's 1984 book re: big brother.

It reminds me of "The Net" (1995) with Sandra Bullock - not exactly the same, of course: her identity was stolen, but the movie shows that the Praetorians knew all about her: what cigs she used to smoke, movies, etc.

I'm obviously not in Britain, but just hearing/reading about things like this is very very unsettling to me.

Take care everyone!

[Tal]

As far as I recall, the initial plans for the cards don't require you to own one, nor to carry one and they're not intended for everyday use, however, once implemented, there's no telling how they might 'evolve'.

The card in itself isn't too bad...most people have passports, driving licences, Social Security numbers etc, so a means if identifying oneself isn't that alien a concept. The danger really lies in the centralised database, the information it contains and who has access to it. Distribution of information is the best way to preserve individual freedoms.

What's very worrying is the way the government is trying to sell the ID card to the public...that is to try and justify it by suggesting it might hinder and prevent terrorists. This argument has little basis in reality and simply makes the government and security services look desperate to pry into our lives.

I expect the ID card system will be another Blair Blunder, costing millions of pounds and not working when finished.

[Sweet Pea]

the future with compulsory national ID's?

[Orionation]

I'm sure they'll be a reality someday, but I won't be having one

[wagnerr]

Perhaps if everyone had a picture ID, then we'd feel much better about ourselves.

I know i look better than my Divers' liscense pic in reality.