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Post by MrNice on Jul 18, 2006 23:08:57 GMT -5
its a consumer economy
if people start giving up the luxury the whole economy will slow down --> recession
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Post by zaab on Jul 18, 2006 23:13:01 GMT -5
Believe it or not, NYC reportedly has some very good tap water. *Sigh* I'll probably never move back, but I love that crazy city. no way, man. NYC is fluoridated. i wouldn't touch the stuff.  I guess you could always survive on Brooklyn Beer.  |
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Post by zaab on Jul 18, 2006 23:19:11 GMT -5
its a consumer economy if people start giving up the luxury the whole economy will slow down --> recession Yup. And if the economy doesn't slow down, eventually we will have resource depletion and possibly an economic meltdown. That's why I'm so pessimistic. The economy seems to be set up for a catastrophic failure either one way or the other. An economy can't experience continual growth forever with finite resources. That is a recipe for disaster. Something has to give eventually. |
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Post by wagnerr on Jul 18, 2006 23:19:44 GMT -5
Things don't seem so bad to me right now at all. War? Big deal, it's always been with us. Armies are always going to fight each other and cause collateral damage. War is with us as a human race; conflict is our nature, it goes along with interaction. I think we're placing too much hype and focus on the last few years, and it's all clouded our perceptions of the world at present. Let's be realistic; the future is not gonna be some wondrous time bringing a perfect earth like some people hope for, nor will humanity destroy itself in a turbulant rush of destruction. The future will be exactly the same as the present and the past, from my reckoning. The story will be the same; conflict along with interaction. The only difference is that now there are a lot more people in the world, and things are going faster. And why is that?  Because now humanity can better support itself. We are becoming much more concious of health and science and the realities of existance, and we are learning to integrate all this into our daily lives. We must adjust. Six billion people. In twenty years there will be seven. So what? I don't believe all the crap i hear about the world being overpopulated. Anyone who believes that hasn't seen the vast expanses of empty land all over the Earth, with no one for miles. Plenty of land for everyone, and now we can use it more efficiently as well. We are learning from our mistakes through trial and error, just like in the past.  Let's just try and do the best we can. We're more knowledgeable now. I don't think the world will bow either to Socialism or Religious facists, nope. These fools and their foolish, flawed ideologies will die with them someday, and everyone will get by without them just fine. We will learn from their mistakes too. Like Tal said, the key to our future lies with moderation, done by moderates. We need to find our balance with what we have. |
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Post by wagnerr on Jul 18, 2006 23:29:26 GMT -5
its a consumer economy if people start giving up the luxury the whole economy will slow down --> recession Yup. And if the economy doesn't slow down, eventually we will have resource depletion and possibly an economic meltdown. That's why I'm so pessimistic. The economy seems to be set up for a catastrophic failure either one way or the other. An economy can't experience continual growth forever with finite resources. That is a recipe for disaster. Something has to give eventually. There will probably be another Great Depression. I agree,. it's definitely in the cards for us. But that does not mean we will face total and utter failure and annhilation. We simply will have to get by in different circumstances. Humans are masters at adapting to the natural world; it's one of the things that separates us from the animals and plants. Key to our future is not to panic. Sure we're gonna face challenge and hardship; it's the story of our race. But hardship and danger faced with proper knowledge, training, and preparation need not be faced with fear or terror. Tell you what, Zaab. How about you and i start a big farm somewhere, and we invite all the SUers of the world to be there with us. We can create a small, isolated community of work and preparation for the future economic collapse, since you seem to foresee it coming. We can store up a shitload of food and goods for everyone and learn the methods of production by our own two hands. Then, when our fellow human beings are faced with despair and failure, we can reach out to help them and show them how to survive. Rome fell: life went on. The Ottomans fell, life went on. The USSR fell apart. Again, life goes on. The Chinese fell apart six hundred years ago. Guess what? They've risen up again. We can make all this work if we just keep trying. |
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Post by zaab on Jul 18, 2006 23:40:19 GMT -5
Yup. And if the economy doesn't slow down, eventually we will have resource depletion and possibly an economic meltdown. That's why I'm so pessimistic. The economy seems to be set up for a catastrophic failure either one way or the other. An economy can't experience continual growth forever with finite resources. That is a recipe for disaster. Something has to give eventually. There will probably be another Great Depression. I agree,. it's definitely in the cards for us. But that does not mean we will face total and utter failure and annhilation. We simply will have to get by in different circumstances. Humans are masters at adapting to the natural world; it's one of the things that separates us from the animals and plants. Key to our future is not to panic. Sure we're gonna face challenge and hardship; it's the story of our race. But hardship and danger faced with proper knowledge, training, and preparation need not be faced with fear or terror. Tell you what, Zaab. How about you and i start a big farm somewhere, and we invite all the SUers of the world to be there with us. We can create a small, isolated community of work and preparation for the future economic collapse, since you seem to foresee it coming. We can store up a shitload of food and goods for everyone and learn the methods of production by our own two hands. Then, when our fellow human beings are faced with despair and failure, we can reach out to help them and show them how to survive. Rome fell: life went on. The Ottomans fell, life went on. The USSR fell apart. Again, life goes on. The Chinese fell apart six hundred years ago. Guess what? They've risen up again. We can make all this work if we just keep trying. I agree with you Russ. We won't necessarily make a hard landing, but its very much in the realm of possibility. I believe in our ability to survive, but you also can't ignore worst case scenarios. I definitely don't want to be caught off guard if a meltdown occurs in my lifetime. I want to be prepared. (Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst...) |
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Post by MrNice on Jul 18, 2006 23:43:42 GMT -5
umm, actually animals and plants have been around much longer then humans
cocroaches are alot more adaptable then human
sure, life will go on, but what kind of life?
that comes with violence that follows an economic collapse
prepared in terms of what?
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Post by wagnerr on Jul 18, 2006 23:48:54 GMT -5
umm, actually animals and plants have been around much longer then humans cocroaches are alot more adaptable then human sure, life will go on, but what kind of life? that comes with violence that follows an economic collapse prepared in terms of what? We adapt to the world much more quickly than either plants or animals. When's the last time you saw a beaver use a power drill? Yes!!! Exactly!!!!!!! We need to take example from the roaches!!! We need to develop artificial exoskeletons to protect ourselves from the stomping force of the planet. Let's stop kicking those poor little creatures creeping onto our food and learn a thing or two from them!! Zaab is correct. Prepare for the worst, and live life for the best. To do otherwise is foolish, and unwise. Now, let's learn from all those roaches and ants out there, who are truly superior life forms and know how to get the job done. |
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Post by zaab on Jul 18, 2006 23:51:28 GMT -5
Self sufficiency, being able to survive in economic turmoil, relocating if necessary... |
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Post by MrNice on Jul 19, 2006 0:04:36 GMT -5
you can laugh, but humans are very very fragile compare to plants
when did we have to adapt to anything?
we never faced major cataclisms
if something drastic happens, plants have a much better capacity to carry on without any need for a power drill
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Post by shyaussiegal on Jul 19, 2006 0:40:31 GMT -5
War? Big deal, it's always been with us. In a way, it's a shame so many of us accept that way of thinking. You switch on the tv to watch the News, or glance at the headlines in the newspaper and there's always some mention of war, shootings, stabbings, mass murder etc... and we're all so used to seeing it, that we kinda turn a blind eye to it, shrug and seem more interested in who won the footy or some funny story like "prison guard held hostage for two days released after a ransom demand for pizzas was met". |
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Post by TheDMan06 on Jul 19, 2006 5:27:24 GMT -5
when did we have to adapt to anything? Well, there was the supervolcanic eruption of the Toba caldera 74000 years ago, wich caused a global temperature drop of 5C. This would have caused wide devastation, yet we survived (barely). Also, humans have had to adapt to every environment that we have moved into. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Jul 19, 2006 5:29:15 GMT -5
Well, there was the supervolcanic eruption of the Toba caldera 74000 years ago, wich caused a global temperature drop of 5C. This would have caused wide devastation, yet we survived (barely). Also, humans have had to adapt to every environment that we have moved into. I have my doubts. Most people are too soft. Wonder if they could survive without their mobiles and Starsmucks. |
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Post by Paulinus on Jul 19, 2006 10:49:53 GMT -5
I think Humanity's going to hell which is a bit worrying when you consider that I don't believe in such a place |
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Post by randall on Jul 20, 2006 8:34:15 GMT -5
I'd like to say things will be very bright and wonderful in 50 years time but, speaking as an engineer and scientist, it doesn't seem likely.
There's a reasonable probability that in 50 - 100 years time our current civilisation won't exist. If you google for 'peak oil' you can find out why. Strangely very few people are aware of Peak Oil, even though Bush's last State of the Union address explicitly stated research into alternative energy was a top priority.
For those who want the Cliff notes version:
- Mankind began to seriously consuming oil from about 1930 onwards. In less than 80 years we've consumed half of the worlds known, recoverable oil reserves.
- That would leave 80 years left if we were consuming at the same rate, which we're not. Even ignoring the rising oil use by China and India the rate at which we'll consume the remaining half is much faster.
- Theoretical fuel alternatives such as biofuels, solar cells, hydrogen fuel, and nuclear energy, do not solve cetain problems such as fueling aircraft. Even if we make alternative fuels to run cars and factories it's highly likely our civilisation will no longer have air travel by the end of the century.
- Hmm, not much else I can say that isn't making me sound like a pessimist. But it's an accepted scientific fact that world resources are limited, that they will eventually run out, and that we've determined it will be before the end of this century.
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