The USA presidential election 2008

[skyhint]

Sept 26, 2008 0:14:38 GMT -5 @shyguy83 said:

I just watched an episode of Insight here is Australia and they were discussing something I was always aware of and that is the voter turnouts in America for presidential elections. They are predicting a 60% turnout, where usually it is between 50-55%. In my opinion that is quite low considering this is one of the highest profile elections in American history. Question for you SU's in America - who is going to actually vote and I know the election is still 6 weeks away but who at the moment are you most likely to vote for? What is Obama's stance on the war - has it changed from a few months ago? I think Obama is a great candidate but his lack of experience is of concern - even though he does have a multitude of advisors.

I heard that in Australia you must vote every election. It isnt optional.

[shyguy83]

Yes that is correct. You must have a very good reason to not vote otherwise you may be fined!

[MrNice]

"I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout," said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory.

Naptaq, think about that one

there is unprecedented public outrage about this bailout
I don't want to spam the board so if anyone is interested try this site
globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com for more information and what you can do about it


and back on topic, I am strongly in favor on McCain now that he has taken a stance against the bailout. He chickened out of doing this at first.

[Sweet Pea]

my bank failed yesterday and got bought out. this is the biggest bank failure ever in america. it was a regional bank that was very successful but was hard hit by the housing crisis. now their investors and people they owe money to in the region are going to be hard hit. between that and the fact that an eastern corporation bought them out, we're now seeing money flow out of the region bigtime. it was one of the three biggest and most well-known companies in our region, along with microsoft and starbucks. this sucks.

[Naptaq]

Sept 26, 2008 8:42:39 GMT -5 MrNice said:

"I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout," said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory.

Naptaq, think about that one

there is unprecedented public outrage about this bailout
I don't want to spam the board so if anyone is interested try this site
globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com for more information and what you can do about it


and back on topic, I am strongly in favor on McCain now that he has taken a stance against the bailout. He chickened out of doing this at first.

The link, or blog rather, has a heavy anti- bailout positionality and cites Ron Paul among others. I've been in that boat before and I know people who are still in that boat. And some of them say they would rather have an economic collapse now, rather than later, which supposedly will be even worse. But I understand you're not one of those people.

I think Bush knows a lot more than he says publicly, so when he says that US economy is in trouble.. you guys already know that. And he says this bailout is needed and you guys disagree.

Fine.

Time will tell if this bailout is going to be helpful or not.

[Naptaq]

Sept 26, 2008 9:09:03 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

my bank failed yesterday and got bought out. this is the biggest bank failure ever in america. it was a regional bank that was very successful but was hard hit by the housing crisis. now their investors and people they owe money to in the region are going to be hard hit. between that and the fact that an eastern corporation bought them out, we're now seeing money flow out of the region bigtime. it was one of the three biggest and most well-known companies in our region, along with microsoft and starbucks. this sucks.

Yeah and if the bailout doesn't happen foreign capital is going to cut and run and then you'll have a total economic collapse and another Depression.

[MrNice]

Yeah and if the bailout doesn't happen foreign capital is going to cut and run and then you'll have a total economic collapse and another Depression.

what makes you think so?

this is nonsense
this bailout is nonsense
WM is not a successful company
our financial economy was generating FAKE profit/prosperity based on the housing bubble

lending money to people that can't pay it back is not a successful business model

foreign capital (and domestic) will run as long as we pretend that these profits are real - it is running already and the government is trying to prevent that by forcefully taking money away from people and putting it back into the unproductive and flawed businesses.

I think Bush knows a lot more than he says publicly, so when he says that US economy is in trouble.. you guys already know that. And he says this bailout is needed and you guys disagree.

we already had a precedent where we went to war based on what Bush knew which turned out to be false.Why should we trust Bush?

[Naptaq]

Sept 26, 2008 10:13:15 GMT -5 MrNice said:

we already had a precedent where we went to war based on what Bush knew which turned out to be false.Why should we trust Bush?

Alright, the CIA was wrong, Tony Blair was wrong, Colin Powell was wrong, the whole intelligencia was wrong.

[Sigh]

Sept 26, 2008 11:47:01 GMT -5 Naptaq said:

Sept 26, 2008 10:13:15 GMT -5 MrNice said:

we already had a precedent where we went to war based on what Bush knew which turned out to be false.Why should we trust Bush?

Alright, the CIA was wrong, Tony Blair was wrong, Colin Powell was wrong, the whole intelligencia was wrong.

Well where are the infamous "weapons of mass destruction" then?

[Naptaq]

Sept 26, 2008 12:49:46 GMT -5 Sigh said:

Sept 26, 2008 11:47:01 GMT -5 Naptaq said:

Alright, the CIA was wrong, Tony Blair was wrong, Colin Powell was wrong, the whole intelligencia was wrong.

Well where are the infamous "weapons of mass destruction" then?

Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear but the whole inteligencia was wrong and there were no WMDs.

[MrNice]

Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear but the whole inteligencia was wrong and there were no WMDs.

what is intelligencia?

or rather what do you mean by it

---
The intelligentsia (from Russian: интеллигенция from Latin: intelligentia) is a social class of people engaged in complex mental and creative labor directed to the development and dissemination of culture, encompassing intellectuals and social groups close to them (e.g., artists and school teachers). The term has been borrowed from the Russian language, a transliteration of "интеллигенция". Initially the term was applied mostly in the context of Russia and later Soviet Union, and had a narrower meaning based on a self-definition of a certain category of intellectuals.
---

I don't see what this has to do with Iraq and WMD

[Farouche]

"and back on topic, I am strongly in favor on McCain now that he has taken a stance against the bailout. He chickened out of doing this at first."

I don't like the bailout one bit, BUT I could never in good conscience vote for McCain, bless his little ol' heart. He and his Barbie doll running mate are way, way too ready to go to war for my tastes. If there is one thing I don't think we can afford even more than this bailout, it is involvement in more military conflicts. I don't think we need a "maverick" right now at such a sensitive time. And Palin? What the heck is that about? She's politically repulsive, she seems to be a habitual liar (yes, even by politicians’ truth-twisting standards), and her vapid responses to interviewers are so confused and disjointed, she makes Dubya look like Cicero. It seems really bizarre and incredibly irresponsible to me that McCain would go along with her as a running mate, for any reason. I don't think we need a "maverick" in office.

Mr. Nice, I noticed a few pages back that you were originally voting for McCain because you believed him less likely to raise your personal taxes. Unless you're in quite a high income bracket, everything I've read indicates that Obama is very much not in favor of raising your taxes. Go here to see an independent (and supposedly neutral) analysis of the distortions promoted by each party. Number one on the list refutes the idea that Obama would raise taxes for the middle class.

I'm very voting for Obama. He appears to be the best choice for president I've seen in a while, and I agree with most of his policies a lot more than I do McCain's: for affordable health care for everyone (though looks like we can kiss that one goodbye now); for regulation of financial markets (especially relevant now); choice for women (very. big.); very much pro-diplomacy. And his running mate is... relatively sane. That's about all one can ask for these days.

I'm glad to hear that McCain has agreed to participate in the debates tonight, but I'm a little surprised. He has made himself look rather histrionic and foolish with his “suspension” of the campaign and now going back on that decision. It looks especially bad in light of his campaign’s suggestions about messing with the date of the VP debate, since all current evidence indicates that Palin is likely come off looking very unprepared, unless the Republicans can work a miracle (or Biden gets too cocky). In McCain's defense, I think the nominal suspension of his campaign may have arisen out of a complicated mixture of concern for personal honor, misguided patriotism, and politics, rather than simple opportunism. But it was politically and practically foolish. I think he’d better have his ducks in a row tonight. Either way, it should be something to watch.

Anyone else tuning in?

[Naptaq]

Sept 26, 2008 13:21:24 GMT -5 MrNice said:

Ok, maybe I didn't make myself clear but the whole inteligencia was wrong and there were no WMDs.

what is intelligencia?

or rather what do you mean by it

---
The intelligentsia (from Russian: интеллигенция from Latin: intelligentia) is a social class of people engaged in complex mental and creative labor directed to the development and dissemination of culture, encompassing intellectuals and social groups close to them (e.g., artists and school teachers). The term has been borrowed from the Russian language, a transliteration of "интеллигенция". Initially the term was applied mostly in the context of Russia and later Soviet Union, and had a narrower meaning based on a self-definition of a certain category of intellectuals.
---

I don't see what this has to do with Iraq and WMD

Intelligencia as the whole intelligence.

And welcome back Green Farret aka Phoenix Farret. I recognize the style and your political positions.

It's interesting to see all these vicious attacks on Ms. Palin by liberal pro-choise women.

Oh yeah, Obama said gooobye to universal health care, which is a noble idea, but not practical at all, as the last few days have shown.

[audioalone]

ha ha and very astute, Nap !

and double ha ha regarding pro-choice feminist groups making deriding Ms. Palin (I'm a "traditionist" btw, who knew (sarcasm, of course )

among youse be it and no ixnay on the leavemay unless I get banned, of course !

[Sweet Pea]

Sept 26, 2008 13:57:52 GMT -5 Farouche said:

"and back on topic, I am strongly in favor on McCain now that he has taken a stance against the bailout. He chickened out of doing this at first."

I don't like the bailout one bit, BUT I could never in good conscience vote for McCain, bless his little ol' heart. He and his Barbie doll running mate are way, way too ready to go to war for my tastes. If there is one thing I don't think we can afford even more than this bailout, it is involvement in more military conflicts. I don't think we need a "maverick" right now at such a sensitive time. And Palin? What the heck is that about? She's politically repulsive, she seems to be a habitual liar (yes, even by politicians’ truth-twisting standards), and her vapid responses to interviewers are so confused and disjointed, she makes Dubya look like Cicero. It seems really bizarre and incredibly irresponsible to me that McCain would go along with her as a running mate, for any reason. I don't think we need a "maverick" in office.

Mr. Nice, I noticed a few pages back that you were originally voting for McCain because you believed him less likely to raise your personal taxes. Unless you're in quite a high income bracket, everything I've read indicates that Obama is very much not in favor of raising your taxes. Go here to see an independent (and supposedly neutral) analysis of the distortions promoted by each party. Number one on the list refutes the idea that Obama would raise taxes for the middle class.

I'm very voting for Obama. He appears to be the best choice for president I've seen in a while, and I agree with most of his policies a lot more than I do McCain's: for affordable health care for everyone (though looks like we can kiss that one goodbye now); for regulation of financial markets (especially relevant now); choice for women (very. big.); very much pro-diplomacy. And his running mate is... relatively sane. That's about all one can ask for these days.

I'm glad to hear that McCain has agreed to participate in the debates tonight, but I'm a little surprised. He has made himself look rather histrionic and foolish with his “suspension” of the campaign and now going back on that decision. It looks especially bad in light of his campaign’s suggestions about messing with the date of the VP debate, since all current evidence indicates that Palin is likely come off looking very unprepared, unless the Republicans can work a miracle (or Biden gets too cocky). In McCain's defense, I think the nominal suspension of his campaign may have arisen out of a complicated mixture of concern for personal honor, misguided patriotism, and politics, rather than simple opportunism. But it was politically and practically foolish. I think he’d better have his ducks in a row tonight. Either way, it should be something to watch.

Anyone else tuning in?

the debates are showing live and unrestricted on CNN.com tonight. i have an important meeting so i'll have to wait and watch it later. i already know there's no freakin' way i could ever vote for a mccain/palin ticket, but i want to watch obama lay waste to mccain.