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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 2:24:27 GMT -5
you are the one playing semantics by saying pro abortion Just calling it what it is. Not yet a person. It's given a chance at life. When it's kicking around and responding to the enviorment it is. You and I don't remember the first 12 months. That doesn't mean we didn't exist. That's your only solid point. However, I'll argue that lot of people want kids, so giving up for adoption is always an option. Not as rare as one would expect. The late George Tiller was a great example of that. And he's not the only one either. Not only do some organizations provide late term abortions for any reason, they also cover up rape by not reporting it, therby allowing that kind of behaviour. Planned Parenthood is nutorious for that.
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 2:27:15 GMT -5
How do you and your folks feel about stem cell research and cloning? Stem sell research is fine but cloning.. I don't think so.
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Post by missklew on Jun 2, 2009 6:00:52 GMT -5
How do you and your folks feel about stem cell research and cloning? Stem sell research is fine but cloning.. I don't think so. You do know where they get the stem cells from don't you? www.law4u.com.au/lil/ls_stem.htmlYou still think it is ok?
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Post by MrNice on Jun 2, 2009 8:56:53 GMT -5
no you are not calling it what it is it looks like you don't understand the issue women do not like performing abortions however in some circumstances they feel it is the best option - so they want a choice hence pro choice believe me, no one likes abortion
not yet a person = not a person if we could make a person out of wood and then breathe life into it would you call the piece of wood not yet a person? you can. however its not a person
so?
responding to the environment is not what defines life my smoke detector for example responds to the environment, but its not alive
numbers how many people want for adoption vs how many abortions happen?
numbers please, otherwise you are making an empty claim not as rare as you would think is not a number and doesn't mean anything I say its not nearly as often as you think so provide some stats
an example of something happening is not significant
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 11:01:48 GMT -5
believe me, no one likes abortion Planned parenthood and organizations like that like abotions - it seems to me it's easy for them. And to remind you, the context in which I brought up the words pro-abortion is by mentioning the far-left, who ironicly are for terrorists rights. Are you saying a fetus deserves no rights and that it isn't a human being, in any way, even at 6 months? With that kind of mentality, I don't think it's that hard for women, at any gestation period, to get an abortion, but I could be wrong. I'm ok with abortion early on if it's a really difficult situation, but the more the fetus develops, the more pro-life I get. I'm not anwsering a hypothetical. Life is worth protecting. But a fetus is alive. Well there isn't enough babies put for adoptions, that's why they call it ' baby shortage'. People ain't waiting years or getting kids from Russia for nothing. But to be fair, the system is slow too. It's hard to come up with numbers for illegal activities like covering up rape and questionable late term abortions. I like your optimism. That's bull. It should not happen. Covering up rape or late term abortions for any reason should not happen. Just like Blagojevic or any politician selling a Senate-seat-for-money should not happen. Are you trying to say that you first need more wrong-doing so that it becomes a huge endemic problem and then try to do something about it? Nobody's buying that.
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 11:19:00 GMT -5
Stem sell research is fine but cloning.. I don't think so. You do know where they get the stem cells from don't you? www.law4u.com.au/lil/ls_stem.htmlYou still think it is ok? Yes I do. They could become a solid healing modality for Parkinson's disease and spinal cord injuries, but maybe other healing modalities will prove to be better that don't involve taking apart the embryo. But, who knows right?
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Post by MrNice on Jun 2, 2009 11:22:59 GMT -5
this is an idiotic statement to make they are protecting the rights of women - the choice to have an abortion
you are wrong you are talking about abortion as its some sort of fun sport that people do no matter what mentality it is a traumatizing experience for the woman however often thats the hard choice the woman thinks is best
they are are for human rights, whoever that may be
a fetus is not alive
but a fetus is not alive
why don't you answer the question - how many abortions vs how many children wanted for adoption? and how many families get approved for adoption out of those that apply?
but you know that the numbers are significant?
its not optimism - its realism - towards you just saying things without merit
what's bull is the supposedly pro life sentiment there is a real way to greatly reduce the number of abortions - its called improvement of socio economic conditions I say its hypocritical to make so much fuss about something so insignificant while there is so much suffering and innocent people dying in the world
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Post by MrNice on Jun 2, 2009 11:29:13 GMT -5
covering up rape? how does this help your case? what are the circumstances under which they cover up rape?
as far as late term abortions go, they should be allowed at least to protect the health of the mother and as I mentioned earlier, the number of late term abortions that happen for other reason is statistically insignificant
no - that is different thats the whole problem with not having a clear definition on what life is you just arbitrarily want to pick some time in the pregnancy after which you determine the fetus has rights and prohibit abortion the key word here is arbitrarily
while abortions should be discouraged and we should do everything in our power to make an environment in which women would not be compelled to do abortions, we have to keep the choice there
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 16:59:27 GMT -5
they are protecting the rights of women - the choice to have an abortion And the rights of abusers to remain private? ;D Sure. Self indulgence on your own idealism is the opposite of being for human rights. Example: The way they even attack Obama shows how serious they are about it. In the name of idealism they're willing to hurt the country to show how 'brave' and 'idealistic' they are. Are you saying a fetus deserves no rights and that it isn't a human being, in any way, even at 6 months? I don't know. No, it should not happen weather it's 300 of rape cover-ups per year or 30,000. How are you going to that? It sounds to me like you're proposing paying people not to have this happen to them. I could be wrong. Now, I'm proposing something a lot cheeper: Personal responsibility and/or abstinence. Totally. Every day I'm closer to death. There is suffering and I'm definitely dying. ;D
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 2, 2009 17:20:05 GMT -5
covering up rape? how does this help your case? That when you have a system that's only there for abortions, for any reason it's going to be very very bad since they only care about aborting and they're not gonna report the rape or that not because of 'privacy'. Yeah.. let's vote on fetus' rights! But seriously, I see this arbitrary line coming in the future. It's a compromise between pro-choise and pro-life. Right.
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Post by MrNice on Jun 2, 2009 22:30:08 GMT -5
nothing you said in this part makes any sense so I'll just make a general statement
neglecting human rights hurts the country a lot its unfortunate that many people don't see this until they are personally hurt by it
that's exactly what I am saying
well if you don't know then don't claim that adoption is the solution to abortion
it should not happen according to you while everyone agrees that selling a senate seat is bad and there is no dissenting opinion about it, its not so for abortion as you can see people have different opinions on whether its right or wrong
don't be ridiculous
that's not what you are proposing - you are proposing a ban on abortions help make the world a better place where people are educated and responsible and there will be no need to ban abortion
perhaps there is another problem with women reporting rape perhaps they feel violated traumatized embarrassed how are you going to compensate for this? whether they report it or not, what is it to you?
since you have absolutely no clue about how many abuses there actually are you have no case for making this into a big issue
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 4, 2009 13:26:26 GMT -5
You probably know this, but here it is: The Far-left complained because Obama didn't release torture photos by some individuals (who acted on their own) because it would hurt America and further enflame anti-Americanism, which is especially hip in Europe. Those photos are also a subject of a lawsuit, by guess who? The ACLU. So you're saying that your moral outlook on abortion is the same as George "the baby killer" Tiller? It is in a lot of cases. Tiller would abort a 7 month old fetus, not for a health issue but for a small reason like "I don't want to put my kid for adoption" Even in the liberal pro-choise Europe, most countries have a late-term ban. On Late term abortions. I'd guarantee you, that if there was a vote tomorrow to ban late term abortions it would be passed in every state that hasn't passed that law yet, because more than 70% of Americans are against late-term abortions. So that the rapist doesn't get away with a crime and more importantly to prevent another girl/women from getting raped by the same rapist. And besides, Planned Parenhood can't cover it up anyway - it's illegal - they have to report it.
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Post by MrNice on Jun 4, 2009 13:50:15 GMT -5
no I didn't know this what hurts america is cover up of torture and they are right to go after obama
stop being silly he is not a baby killer and if you insist on using stupid gimmicks like this in a debate you'll soon be debating yourself a fetus is not a baby and aborting a fetus is not killing
though I bet in some pro life twisted sort of way you approve of the man's murder
'in a lot of cases' does not mean anything either adoption is a viable solution for abortion in general or it is not your opinion on the matter does not count as an argument
well its a good thing we still have states that resist religious indocrination
I suggest you do some research on why women are reluctant to trumpet to everyone about being raped before making it sound like its an easy and obvious thing to do
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Post by Naptaq on Jun 4, 2009 15:02:03 GMT -5
what hurts america is cover up of torture and they are right to go after obama The individuals acted on their own. They've been investigated and sanctioned under G. W. Bush for violating the army manual. When a 21 week old fetus can be born and live.. that's alive. So, if the life of the mother is not in danger (which is very very rare due to advences in medicine) there's no excuse for a late-term abortion. Adoption is a very good choise if one's deciding between late-term abortion (with it's bad side-effects) or giving up the baby for adoption. 70% is a blow out in any election. And that's by how much late-term abortions would be banned, if the US voted tomorrow. I didn't say anything about the women invovled in the rape. Planned Parenthood is legally obliged, for obvious preventive reasons, to report rape.
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