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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 11, 2009 8:52:06 GMT -5
Fightingspirit -----------------------
You'll have to take my word for it that I have a pretty good idea. If you think that I don't then we can argue the point. Care to answer my question though? I fear your word isn't good for much. Your posts speak for themselves. I don't care. But would You be so kind as to answer my question?  |
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Post by arizona on Jul 11, 2009 18:06:13 GMT -5
I'm with Strawberry. The venom and generalizing on this board are making the board's existence almost a joke.
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 13, 2009 7:31:24 GMT -5
I'm with Strawberry. The venom and generalizing on this board are making the board's existence almost a joke. I've been lurking and occasionally posting on this board for months now. In fact, I started following it quite early, perhaps in 2004 or 2005 when there was a whole different set of active members. I have to say that heated exchanges can be jarring at times, but they are also necessary for a serious exchange of thoughts. It's been very quiet here over the past few months, almost to the point of the forum dying out into oblivion. It seems to me that the place is slightly over-moderated to allow for uninhibited behavior and it has definitely throttled its creative output. It's possible that that has changed now and this forum can undergo some great proliferation - I certainly hope so. |
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Post by Farouche on Jul 13, 2009 8:49:58 GMT -5
This kind of stuff is annoying and frustrating, Arizona, I agree, but I hope nobody gets too upset. We get one of these misogynist dingbats in here every so often. They're timid men with loud ideas, and women are an easy, often socially acceptable target of their rage and hate. In other words: it feels good, and they can get away with it. Women like the OP in this thread, on the other hand, are quickly outed for their silliness whenever they let bitterness toward the opposite sex get the better of them. These people seem to come to places like this in the hopes of stirring up the men, who (not unlike their female counterparts, actually) have often been frustrated in love. And as history has shown, people who are frustrated are more susceptible to swallowing nasty generalizations and over-simplifications about the group they perceive to be the source of their troubles. Give people permission to believe in their basest assumptions, fears, or superstitions, and you have a shot at being their hero. The line between a blatant troll and a "real" person who just likes playing to these baser instincts is a fuzzy one. I think they see themselves sort of as prophets, or at least people worthy of respect, as Strawberry noticed. FS, for one, seems to have convinced himself that his ideas are just too advanced for those who challenge him. In his own mind, he's a rebel who dares speak what others only think. What this doesn't take into account, of course, is that most people don't speak those things aloud because they have a pretty good idea that those things are wrong. "Wrong" as in demonstrably false, not "wrong" as in merely socially or morally unacceptable. And to paraphrase Stranger just now: if someone truly had such an especially sensitive social ear, would he really be ranting in public about his contempt for a particular gender or race or whatever, and would he really be surprised at or confused by a negative response? As someone else once said: some "shy" people have problems that go deeper than shyness.  |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 13, 2009 9:57:35 GMT -5
This kind of stuff is annoying and frustrating, Arizona, I agree, but I hope nobody gets too upset. I agree. There's no reason to lose sleep over an exchange of ideas. We get one of these misogynist dingbats in here every so often. They're timid men with loud ideas, and women are an easy, often socially acceptable target of their rage and hate. In other words: it feels good, and they can get away with it. Women like the OP in this thread, in the other hand, are quickly outed for their silliness whenever they let bitterness toward the opposite sex get the better of them. Why do You call out timid men in particular? I would say that obnoxious loud-mouths would be guilty of such transgressions as well... even more so! It's funny how Your instinct of protecting wanna-be alpha males is working overtime. These guys seem to come to places like this in the hopes of stirring up the men, who (not unlike their female counterparts, actually) have often been frustrated in love. And as history has shown, people who are frustrated are more susceptible to swallowing nasty generalizations and over-simplifications about the group they perceive to be the source of their troubles. Give people permission to believe in their basest assumptions, fears, or superstitions, and you have a shot at being their hero. The line between a blatant troll and a "real" person who just likes playing to these baser instincts is a fuzzy one. I will have to disagree with You here. I didn't come here to stir anyone up. I mentioned in another thread that I've been casually lurking here for the past few years. Accusing someone of trolling is a far too simplistic of a way out. I don't really know why You would want to interpret the world in such black and white terms. I suppose you're wired to deem me evil because I am addressing some of the things that You are privy of, yet very reluctant to disclose. I think they see themselves sort of as prophets, or at least as people worthy of respect, as Strawberry noticed. FS, for one, seems to have convinced himself that his ideas are just too advanced for those who challenge him. In his own mind, he's a rebel who dares speak what others only think. What this doesn't take into account, of course, is that most people don't speak those things aloud because they have a pretty good idea that those things are wrong. "Wrong" as in demonstrably false, not "wrong" as in merely socially or morally unacceptable. And to paraphrase Stranger just now: if someone truly had such an especially sensitive social ear, would he really be ranting in public about his contempt for a particular gender or race or whatever, and would he really be surprised at or confused by a negative response? I am sorry, but that's just a heap of accusations without merit. I don't paint myself as being above other people; that's just Your convenient oversimplification allowing You to sidestep the crux of the conversation. All that I've said is that based on my personal experiences, I prefer women of a certain ethnicity, one that probably augments and compliments my own. I am not saying that it's the be all, end all solution for everyone, but it's something that has so far worked for me, so I think that it could work for others as well. If I can make one person happier through my contribution then I would be a lucky (and grateful) person indeed. As someone else once said: some "shy" people have problems that go deeper than shyness. So, is shyness Your one and only problem? |
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Post by Farouche on Jul 13, 2009 10:42:24 GMT -5
FS, I over-simplified nothing. You are what you make of yourself, and that you are projecting your inadequacy on others is patently obvious. American women who won't date you are egomaniacal cretins in your estimation, because you behave in an arrogant and superficial way. Those who call you out for your generalized slurs against women, you accuse of having a black-and-white view and calling you "evil"--even when it makes no sense in the context of the actual accusations--because that is the lens through which you view the world. If you were honestly confused, let me clarify: I don't think you're evil. I think you're angry, overbearing, socially tin-eared, and wrong--and that you're too drunk on your own wine to see it. No matter how much convoluted self-justification you pour on after the fact, nobody's about to forget the bitter pronouncements you're currently concealing with dainty euphemisms. ...But just in case anyone was about to forget what started all this bullshit, allow me to quote you... again! Fightingspirit --------------
American women are looking for some unwarranted glamor, fame, and social prowess, that's supposed to be cast upon them regardless of what they actually represent with themselves. It's not surprising to see US women disparaging those from East Europe since they they are perceiving them as a threat to the status quo. You see, women don't like to see men having options. Men are much more obliging as helpless slaves.
Farouche -------------
Mikelan and FightingSpirit are either embittered basement-dwellers with no prospects, or trolls.
Fightingspirit ---------------
Ok, but what exactly is so wrong about having preference for women of a different ethnicity.
[...] I stand by that [first] statement and I reiterated that basic thought in one of my last posts. I do think that American women have overinflated egos and I think that it's more than just an isolated problem; it's widespread. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 13, 2009 13:17:29 GMT -5
FS, I over-simplified nothing. You are what you make of yourself, and that you are projecting your inadequacy on others is patently obvious. American women who won't date you are egomaniacal cretins in your estimation, because you behave in an arrogant and superficial way. Those who call you out for your generalized slurs against women, you accuse of having a black-and-white view and calling you "evil"--even when it makes no sense in the context of the actual accusations--because that is the lens through which you view the world. If you were honestly confused, let me clarify: I don't think you're evil. I think you're angry, overbearing, socially tin-eared, and wrong--and that you're too drunk on your own wine to see it. No matter how much convoluted self-justification you pour on after the fact, nobody's about to forget the bitter pronouncements you're currently concealing with dainty euphemisms. ...But just in case anyone was about to forget what started all this bullshit, allow me to quote you... again! I am not sure what You are trying to prove by quoting what I wrote and what I still maintain as my view. I do think the great majority of American women have overinflated egos. I get it confirmed every day through actual events that transpire in my life, not only in relation to my dating situation, but also through various run of the mill situations that occur. It is something that I can only observe, but hardly influence so it pointless to try to blame me for that fact. You are also painting me as some frustrated and angry individual that is just trying to strike out against all of the poor, innocent women out there. I think that you're going to have to give me a little more credit though because I've been very consistent in expounding my views and it more than just a desperate cry of some poor lost soul. Furthermore, I will be so vindictive as to suggest that You cut down on ad hominem attacks when You are arguing with somebody because it can be very easily turned against yourself. I have used a couple of these myself in our discussion, I won't dispute that fact, but You have begun to resort to them almost to the exclusion of any actual arguments. |
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Post by Farouche on Jul 13, 2009 17:01:49 GMT -5
Fightingspirit -----------------
I am not sure what You are trying to prove by quoting what I wrote and what I still maintain as my view. I do think the great majority of American women have overinflated egos. I get it confirmed every day through actual events that transpire in my life, not only in relation to my dating situation, but also through various run of the mill situations that occur. It is something that I can only observe, but hardly influence so it pointless to try to blame me for that fact. Translation: American women have huge egos. I know this for a fact because I think these women have huge egos. I have met women that I definitely evaluate as having huge egos. My evaluation of women's egos is out of my hands. You can't blame me for the way I evaluate women or for the company I choose to keep. My experiences are so representative that I am justified in making slurs against the entire female population of this country and defying anyone to contradict me.Response: In addition to making yourself out to be a woman-bashing jerk, you are, I repeat, committing a basic logical fallacy. Fightingspirit -----------------
You are also painting me as some frustrated and angry individual that is just trying to strike out against all of the poor, innocent women out there. I think that you're going to have to give me a little more credit though because I've been very consistent in expounding my views and it more than just a desperate cry of some poor lost soul. Translation: I am not bitter and angry! I'm consistent! You can't be consistent AND angry! And I'm not a misogynist--what, you think I'm just being unfair to the poor wittle "innocent" women? I know that women are what I say they are, and certainty in a belief is always a good indication of the rationality of that belief.Response: You have been consistent in your nasty attitude toward women. You have been extremely inconsistent in your attempts to defend your position. You quote selectively, and your answers frequently seem to have only the most tenuous of connections to what is actually said to you. People object to your nastiness and your generalizations, and you sidestep the issue, claiming to have only been speaking from experience about your own personal preferences. And then you insist that other people "debate" you based on the straw man you've set up in place of their actual complaints. Fightingspirit ---------------
Furthermore, I will be so vindictive as to suggest that You cut down on ad hominem attacks when You are arguing with somebody because it can be very easily turned against yourself. I have used a couple of these myself in our discussion, I won't dispute that fact, but You have begun to resort to them almost to the exclusion of any actual arguments. Translation: Sure, I may have insulted your entire gender and nationality, and then made sure to include you specifically in the insult, but I’m the only one who gets to base an argument on how little I think of other people’s personalities and intellect. I command you to address my nonsensical rebuttals to your accusations of bigotry and illogic! My premise? American women are flaky halfwits with gigantic egos. Now: I expect you to respond appropriately, i.e. with an explanation of why you’re so mean to me just because I prefer Russian women. If you do not comply, I will insult you again.Response: First of all, “vindictive?” I do not think that word means what you think it means. But more importantly, I’ve already stated my “case.” You’ve chosen to ignore the actual basis for the disgust you’ve aroused in me and others, instead griping about the fact that people refuse to argue with you based on your faulty assumptions. I based no arguments on my remarks about your personal character. The only “argument” I make is that you are wrong. I’ve now twice ( three times!) linked you to the “hasty generalization” logical fallacy page, which I suggest you read and consider carefully. The example at the bottom of the page is particularly appropriate to your particular situation (spoiler: both Rachel and Bill are in the wrong). It's just a hunch--I think a good one--that the reason you’re still wrong and still deliberately ignoring evidence contrary to your sneering claims is that you're protecting your ego. To accept the possibility that extrapolating from personal experience led you to a wrong conclusion, you would also have to consider that maybe, just maybe, there's nothing wrong with women who don't like you, or who think you and your friends are boring. You’d also have to deal with the implication that your insight is not as keen and special as you seem to feel. A key indicator that you’re too deeply invested in an idea to be rational is when you feel that questioning your beliefs is an affront to your dignity, intelligence, and integrity. Check, check, and check. What that suggests is that you’ve incorporated your warped view of women into your core self, so that questioning your conclusions feels like blasphemy, and those who do so can be easily batted away: they can’t handle the reality; they just want you to be politically correct to spare their feelings from the dazzling light of Truth. Right? Motives aside, that is how you’ve been acting. And it’s my best guess as to why when you ask for debate, you do so disingenuously: ignoring legitimate questions, complaints, and concerns and taking every opportunity to proselytize about the inferiority of American women. However, my impression of your character is only important for two reasons: as a reminder to men out there--men who may be frustrated with women and understandably tempted to buy into the comforting certainty of your contempt--to soberly consider how twisted these ideas look to an outside audience; and for the benefit of women who are reading this and feeling down, shaken and sad to find that anyone really thinks this way (because honestly, the minority that do are avoidable and worth avoiding). I suggest you think about the "I refuse to believe men are so shallow" post. Think about why you would find that naive and insulting. Think about it... and then think some more. |
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Post by madiocre on Jul 13, 2009 23:02:33 GMT -5
O.k sorry i dont understand the offence . If I saw a men post a complaint saying he doesn't think women are as shallow as they are made to look in media and sometimes pretend to be i wouldn't be insulted I would think wow this guy is cool he is empathetic to women . She is saying that theyare better then that. where is the offence in that . Maybe you feel that she is being patronising but I dont think that was the intention at all .
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Post by casanova on Jul 14, 2009 3:51:51 GMT -5
Women have been pretty shallow to me cos i havent been with a woman.They believe all the hype of bigger is better and experience makes a better lay.They forget that there are plenty of closet people who havent had sex as late as 35 and some famous people never had sex.
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Post by Stranger on Jul 14, 2009 19:45:30 GMT -5
O.k sorry i dont understand the offence . If I saw a men post a complaint saying he doesn't think women are as shallow as they are made to look in media and sometimes pretend to be i wouldn't be insulted I would think wow this guy is cool he is empathetic to women . She is saying that theyare better then that. where is the offence in that . Maybe you feel that she is being patronising but I dont think that was the intention at all . I agree. I saw it more as a jab at the media than at mandom, lol. A bit ranty, but not really offensive. |
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Post by shycwgirl on Jul 16, 2009 14:53:05 GMT -5
I'm with Strawberry. The venom and generalizing on this board are making the board's existence almost a joke. I've been lurking and occasionally posting on this board for months now. In fact, I started following it quite early, perhaps in 2004 or 2005 when there was a whole different set of active members. I have to say that heated exchanges can be jarring at times, but they are also necessary for a serious exchange of thoughts. It's been very quiet here over the past few months, almost to the point of the forum dying out into oblivion. It seems to me that the place is slightly over-moderated to allow for uninhibited behavior and it has definitely throttled its creative output. It's possible that that has changed now and this forum can undergo some great proliferation - I certainly hope so. do you meen there r 2 manee mods or that the mods r not doing theer job? i dont undrstnd. sory if im buting in. iv ben brousing 4 a long tim 2 btw. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 16, 2009 21:08:29 GMT -5
O.k sorry i dont understand the offence . If I saw a men post a complaint saying he doesn't think women are as shallow as they are made to look in media and sometimes pretend to be i wouldn't be insulted I would think wow this guy is cool he is empathetic to women . She is saying that theyare better then that. where is the offence in that . Maybe you feel that she is being patronising but I dont think that was the intention at all . Let me paraphrase the OP to illustrate the point and don't jump on me for what it states as it is simply a gender reversal from the OP post: "Shy women of the forum, I pose to you a question, please tell me that you're more than just sex-bots like everyone and the media tells me you are. Please tell me that you're just a little more human. Can you prove to me that you are?" |
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Post by Farouche on Jul 17, 2009 1:03:46 GMT -5
Golly gosh, FS. You're so socially "efficient," you should be able to figure out that your paraphrase, while stupid, is in fact still tons less offensive than what you wrote and, for a while at least, continued to erratically defend: Fightingspirit ---------------
American women are looking for some unwarranted glamor, fame, and social prowess, that's supposed to be cast upon them regardless of what they actually represent with themselves. It's not surprising to see US women disparaging those from East Europe since they they are perceiving them as a threat to the status quo. You see, women don't like to see men having options. Men are much more obliging as helpless slaves. The OP asked a stupid question, got shut down by a teaspoonful of common sense, and ran away (presumably in shame). You made a stupid, knowingly insulting declaration based on your own heavily biased observations, whined that logic was just The Man trying to keep you down, and are still here, unrepentant. Just noticing. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 19, 2009 17:30:23 GMT -5
Golly gosh, FS. You're so socially "efficient," you should be able to figure out that your paraphrase, while stupid, is in fact still tons less offensive than what you wrote and, for a while at least, continued to erratically defend: Fightingspirit ---------------
American women are looking for some unwarranted glamor, fame, and social prowess, that's supposed to be cast upon them regardless of what they actually represent with themselves. It's not surprising to see US women disparaging those from East Europe since they they are perceiving them as a threat to the status quo. You see, women don't like to see men having options. Men are much more obliging as helpless slaves. The OP asked a stupid question, got shut down by a teaspoonful of common sense, and ran away (presumably in shame). You made a stupid, knowingly insulting declaration based on your own heavily biased observations, whined that logic was just The Man trying to keep you down, and are still here, unrepentant. Just noticing. Looking back at the thread history, there is only one, from "stranger", that is remotely negative. I've learned not to hope that any girl would speak up against such an obvious slight towards men. I simply posted what came to my mind while reading the OP opinion. You are the first girl who admits that the OP post was silly and out of order. I suppose that we can call it progress. Why was it so hard to admit that in the first place? I for one would have been very impressed. And I am sure that many worthier men who frequent these forums would have been as well. You keep quoting my post about American women. As You seem to have noticed, I am not ashamed of my own opinion and I haven't renounced those views. I still think that the majority of women in the US are raised to think that they are princesses and that it causes all kinds of sufferings for both the women themselves and the men who come in contact with them. I am really not sure where Your claim about "The Man" holding me down came from. The best I can interpret it is that there is a rather strong tendency in Western societies to disparage anything masculine, at least officially, and try to shame men for being who they are. My "guilt", I suppose, is that I speak out against those trends. It wasn't always like that because in my teens I almost became convinced that all men are pigs and that I should act nothing like them. That notion brought me over half a decade of frustration in dealing with both men and women until I finally realized what went wrong. There is no way to explain it in a couple of sentences or even paragraphs so I won't even attempt it at the moment. I'll try to dispense that experience in reasonable granules that can only be put together through the perspective of time, it's a matter of weeks or even months. |
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