I don't want marriage and kids, will i still find love?

[disturbed]

I really want the woman of my dreams at some point, but i don't want to get married and i don't want kids, there are a few reasons for this, but i don't want to go into that just yet, i will do though if anyone is interested and reply's to this, for now i just want to ask peoples opinion on this, i believe most people do want these things in there lives, so if i met a woman who likes me and wants kids and marriage, would it not work out, or would she be alright about it, its hard enough finding a lady friend as it is, i see this possibly causing an even bigger problem, i hope someone can give me feedback on this, please...and thank you

[marle]

OK, just curious- what are your reasons for not wanting to get married?

[Scotty]

There are plenty of women out there who may not want kids or marriage either...so it's quite possible to find love.

Not wanting kids I could understand, but if she's the woman of your dreams, why not marry her?

[skyhint]

i don't want kids or marriage. But I got married anyways for legal and financial reasons.

[Astroruss]

I don't think it's possible to find lasting, trusting love without committment, and marriage is a good expression of this.

Having kids is a different story. These are an extension and result of your committment and love, and your way of making your legacy.

[Sexy Spork #37]

I think you should look after a baby before deciding if you want one. I've looked after a few and believe me, I really don't want one. God, they're difficult.

The problem is that every woman wants one and there isn't one that doesn't, and if you ask the ones who say they don't what they would do if they got pregnant, they'd all say they'd have it because 'it would be lovely'. Which clearly means they do want one. I have had this conversation with many women and they all say the same thing. They're born with a maternal instinct, but not every man is born with a paternal instinct.

Honestly, ask everyone on Earth who wants a kid, and I'll bet you at least half have never looked after one. I guarantee you, if they did, they wouldn't want one. It's far more normal to not want one than to want one.

There is literally no logical reason to have one and no one should feel like they have to defend that viewpoint, because it's correct. Yeah, have one out of love but love isn't logical. But I work on logic. "Ah well, you're born to procreate", some would say. No we're not. We're not born for any reason. Literally, no reason whatsoever. It's black and white. We're born, we live, we die.

You're gonna have a hard time convincing a woman of that because if they want a baby and you don't they'll happily leave you without a second thought. For a man, being a dad is something no man ever thinks about. It just happens. It's one of the reasons I've never been in a relationship. What if it gets serious? She'll want marriage and kids and I don't and I don't want to hurt her. May as well preempt the disappointment by not bothering. Find other ways to make myself happy. Worked for 23 years, can't see it failing for the next 23. If I live that long...

I don't see children as a legacy. The only legacy we leave behind is the impression we make on others, and that can't include kids. And marriage is the same. Pointless. It's far from the ultimate expression of love, it's a complete nuisance. If she can't accept you for you, for who you are, for what you are, and that's it, then there's something wrong with her. I love you. Period. Why garnish it?

If I'm dating a girl I'd make this clear from moment one. Before the first date is even made, and I'd make it clear that I never change my mind. You guys know I hate change, that I'm stubborn. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think stubbornness is the height of sexiness. Ahem.

If people want to live with children and marriage then fair enough, but I think women need to be more understanding. Life without children and marriage can be equally as rewarding.

Believe me, when you're looking after a one-year-old in a park who's managed to get hold of a bird and won't leave go, you'll start to want for another life.

[pancake]

Sept 1, 2013 5:44:19 GMT -5 Sexy Spork #37 said:

The problem is that every woman wants one and there isn't one that doesn't, and if you ask the ones who say they don't what they would do if they got pregnant, they'd all say they'd have it because 'it would be lovely'. Which clearly means they do want one. I have had this conversation with many women and they all say the same thing. They're born with a maternal instinct, but not every man is born with a paternal instinct.

I wish this is actually true, but I don't think wills or desire are controlled by whatever instincts we are born with. We are different from other animals that rely more on instinct. How we choose our lifestyle is probably more influenced by culture and personal experience than anything else. How would you explain career bound women and other women who choose not to have children? Sure some of them can be happy either way but not all women. Just look at statistics of abortion, and neglected and abandoned children. I know my mother never wanted me- from the day I was conceived and even as I was growing up. It wasn't the ideal lifestyle that she wanted. But she was too stupid to properly use contraception and too coward to do abortion. Of course, no sane woman is going to admit something personal and shameful like that to some random guy.


So don't worry OP, there are women who truly doesn't want kids. As for marriage, it's not really something you should decide before you are even in a relationship. Once you find someone you want to live with for the rest of your life, even if marriage is not meaningful to you, you would eventually consider its benefits if you the want best for your partner. Plus this is not a black and white situation, this is something you can reason with your partner. Don't worry, not all women are stupid or inconsiderate.  

[StarFall]

If you meet a woman who likes you but wants marriage and kids then my advice would be to break up with her or not date her in the first place. If you truly see yourself not changing your mind about these two things then it wouldn't be fair to either of you to be in a relationship where only one of you, or neither of you, is being fulfilled. Feeling unfulfilled can cause a person to be resentful of their partner and often leads to a relationship implosion.

Anyway, I have female friends who don't want kids. They think children are okay but would never want one of their own. However, I can't think of a single female friend (of mine) who doesn't, at some point, want to get married. I'm sure there are some out there but whether they just prefer short-term commitments, no commitment, or would be willing to entertain the idea of a long-term commitment, I don't know.

As an aside, I heard a survey on the radio once that said 8 out of 10 men see themselves as being fathers someday, while only 7 out of 10 women see themselves as being mothers someday. So start looking for those 3 out of 10 women.

[Sweet Pea]

how old are you, disturbed?

[CharlotteGirl]

Of course you can have a long-term relationship without ever getting married if you find someone willing, but unfortunately there is probably still some stigma attached to that as well as any legal/financial issues. I also heard something on the radio about 'open relationships' and how they may someday become the norm.

[Sexy Spork #37]

I think experiences shape our lives from moment one. Whilst it may be true that not all women follow their maternal instincts, but there are all certainly born with one. I think even a woman who has chosen not to have a child regrets it to some degree, even if that degree is tiny and locked away in a dark corner of their mind. 

The abortion statistics are shockingly high but I think at has more to do with not being ready or not being able to support the child at that time in their lives. I don't think many would kill anther human being because they don't want it. I've always preferred adoption over abortion but you can't change somebody's mind once it's set in stone. Carrying a child to term to give somebody else a lifetime of happiness is the most rewarding thing one can do. I don't think abortion is cowardice but rather selfishness. And I think at the end if the day, every woman regrets it to some degree or another. I think every parent loves their child even if it's not obvious. It's something to be proud of.

I think the best for any partner of mine is not to not be with me in the first place. You need to get it clear from day one. Sacrificing your beliefs for the good of someone you love is hardly a noble thing to do. You shouldn't sacrifice your beliefs for anything, no matter what it is. Even if marriage is not meaningful, I wouldn't consider the benefits for her, because that would mean I'd had to sacrifice a belief in marriage being antiquated nonsense.

The vast majority of women are thoughtful, insightful and considerate. All I was saying is that if you put a women in a situation of 'it's me or a baby' then many would end the relationship there. But you shouldn't have to put a woman in that situation in the first place because it's an awful thing to do.

There are women out there who wouldn't have children. Hard to find, but they are there. The point is that you should never give up because if you really want to be with someone then someone out there will really want to be with you, regardless of trivial matters like children and marriage.

I think it's an issue of honesty. If she really believes that you want to spend the rest of your life with her then surely marriage is irrelevant. If she wants you to marry her for 'commitment' then there's a part of her that believes you may not be committed. Then that means she doesn't trust you. Then that means it's a pointless relationship. Using logic you can trace this back to deep-seeded insecurity. That's how I see it.

I'd also like to point out that I was largely referring to women I've met or known of.

Finally, I do think it's a good point about stigma but I think the only way for stigma to be broken is to smash through it head-first. My mother and father want me to get married, then have us buy a house together, then move in together, then have children. I haven't told them I don't agree with any of this and I don't want any of this because it'll break their hearts, but it's an old-fashioned stigma, a cycle that I'm determined to break.

If I have children, I don't want them to feel pressured.

[pancake]

Sept 2, 2013 6:31:33 GMT -5 Sexy Spork #37 said:

I think experiences shape our lives from moment one. Whilst it may be true that not all women follow their maternal instincts, but there are all certainly born with one. I think even a woman who has chosen not to have a child regrets it to some degree, even if that degree is tiny and locked away in a dark corner of their mind.

It's hard to regret a decision when you are happy and content with the decision you chose. What I am saying is that instinct is less significant for those women, and that there are a lot of them because there are a lot of adult women who doesn't have children. I think there is an actual statistics of this. Over the years, women have become more independent and birth control is now more effective and available.

The abortion statistics are shockingly high but I think at has more to do with not being ready or not being able to support the child at that time in their lives. I don't think many would kill anther human being because they don't want it. I've always preferred adoption over abortion but you can't change somebody's mind once it's set in stone. Carrying a child to term to give somebody else a lifetime of happiness is the most rewarding thing one can do. I don't think abortion is cowardice but rather selfishness. And I think at the end if the day, every woman regrets it to some degree or another. I think every parent loves their child even if it's not obvious. It's something to be proud of.

I mentioned abortion because there are women who choose to do that, which goes against their instinct. Now I am not saying that those women chose abortion for the sole reason of not wanting a baby, of course their are a lot of things involve. What I am saying is that, for them, instinct is less significant. Also you might be only thinking about the sort of abortion that is done with a developed fetus. There are other sorts of abortion that is done at early stage,like physically exhausting yourself or eating something to induce miscarriage, which is probably more common than reported.

I think the best for any partner of mine is not to not be with me in the first place. You need to get it clear from day one. Sacrificing your beliefs for the good of someone you love is hardly a noble thing to do. You shouldn't sacrifice your beliefs for anything, no matter what it is. Even if marriage is not meaningful, I wouldn't consider the benefits for her, because that would mean I'd had to sacrifice a belief in marriage being antiquated nonsense.

That's cool. That is your own personal preference. It is rarely the same case for another. This might be shocking to you, but for most people their partner is more important than a marriage belief.

My point here is that if a couple is committed to be together, it might be beneficial to consider marriage for legal and financial purposes like residency, mortgages, health insurance, etc. Both will benefit and all of this can be changed back. Most people who doesn't find marriage to be meaningful but still marry, and they marry for these benefits. I'm not encouraging all couple to get married. I'm just saying that it is beneficial and worth considering. You made it clear this is not what you want. I KNOW. Maybe it is not to you, this is just an FYI for the OP and other people.

And there is no need to sacrifice beliefs if you find a partner who shares your belief. No one can force you to be with someone you don't like.

All I was saying is that if you put a women in a situation of 'it's me or a baby' then many would end the relationship there. But you shouldn't have to put a woman in that situation in the first place because it's an awful thing to do.

First off, it is not an awful thing to take responsibility. You both fucked up, you both deal with it. Nobody put them in that situation except themselves. Plus this is a mutual decision as a couple, unless we are talking about rape. This is both their responsibility, it is not just hers.

When there is a child involve, this becomes a legal matter. Both parents have got to separately solve their relationship issue and their issue with the responsibility of the child. If you don't like her anymore, whatever, that happens. Then find someone you are compatible with and this time make sure both of you know how to use a birth control. But the responsibility for the child doesn't get dismissed when the relationship ends.

There are women out there who wouldn't have children. Hard to find, but they are there.

Yes. That's what I am saying except they are not hard to find, because more and more women are independent now because of human rights, women empowerment, better opportunities, etc.

The point is that you should never give up because if you really want to be with someone then someone out there will really want to be with you, regardless of trivial matters like children and marriage.

Of course you have to be compatible with your partner. And children and marriage is not a trivial matter to most people. I think you might be in the minority here.

I think it's an issue of honesty. If she really believes that you want to spend the rest of your life with her then surely marriage is irrelevant. If she wants you to marry her for 'commitment' then there's a part of her that believes you may not be committed. Then that means she doesn't trust you. Then that means it's a pointless relationship. Using logic you can trace this back to deep-seeded insecurity. That's how I see it.

Ok, there are women who does that but there are also men and it takes two to tango(you know what I mean?). Relationship is really a mutual thing. But anyway, my point here is that marriage can be beneficial to committed couples. To you it might be a pointless thing, but to many many others the benefits are not pointless.

I'd also like to point out that I was largely referring to women I've met or known of.

This is why it's difficult to generalized.

Finally, I do think it's a good point about stigma but I think the only way for stigma to be broken is to smash through it head-first. My mother and father want me to get married, then have us buy a house together, then move in together, then have children. I haven't told them I don't agree with any of this and I don't want any of this because it'll break their hearts, but it's an old-fashioned stigma, a cycle that I'm determined to break.


If I have children, I don't want them to feel pressured.

Ok. Hmm, well, you ought to set priorities and live your life. Don't let you parents dictate you. If they are not being understanding then- I actually don't know what to say to you. What I do is not tell my parents about my love life. We are actually in exact opposite situation. My mother doesn't want me to be dating at all and I'm already an adult. She's afraid to lose me because she doesn't want all those years she wasted raising me to go to waste (financially). I don't like upsetting my parents either. I do appreciate her raising me and both of them being a good provider. So I just keep quiet about what she doesn't want to hear, and only tell her what she wants to hear about that are true. Maybe that can work for you too. I dunno.


Anyway, this is my point regarding marriage. It is something that should be discussed with your partner. Obviously if you both can't agree on how to live together, then neither of you shouldn't want to stay in that relationship. She is not the only one who should want to leave, but you should want to as well since you two are not compatible. You shouldn't be afraid to lose her if you can definitely live without her.

I know the media has done so well creating an illusion on how marriage is to be. Well, those are loads of BS. Like how they make the proposal to be a big surprise? It shouldn't be. That sort of decision should have been discussed prior proposal. Or at least the couple know that they are on the same page on how they want to live together. I think we both agree on this. But in your case, you want that belief of no marriage thing settled down on the first day. That's cool. I guess that can work for you. I'm just letting the OP know the other options and possibilities.

[Sexy Spork #37]

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

It's hard to regret a decision when you are happy and content with the decision you chose. What I am saying is that instinct is less significant for those women, and that there are a lot of them because there are a lot of adult women who doesn't have children. I think there is an actual statistics of this. Over the years, women have become more independent and birth control is now more effective and available.

Yes, certainly times have changed from the decade my mind lives in. I think it's a good point that women have become more independent. In the old days, sorry, this is a tad sexist, it was the cliché of childbirth, family, cooking, sewing - stuff like that. Women were brought up with that traditionalism ingrained onto their minds, and some still are. But nowadays, women are independent, or at least more independent, and hinting that they would still feel obliged to follow such an instinct of childbirth is antiquated. And certainly, the number of women choosing not to have a child is increasing even if the birth rate is increasing.

But I've only ever met one girl who didn't want children because she didn't think it was something she had to do being woman, which was a great point. But the other women I talked to wanted five or even six. I was thinking that in this day and age, that's a step backwards. Almost like they wanted to follow 'instincts' to the Nth Degree.

And yes, birth control is much easier to get these days. You can get condoms for free in any doctor's surgery in England, after all. Although some women I've known felt too embarrassed to go to the doctos to get them. I think we're getting there, though.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

I mentioned abortion because there are women who choose to do that, which goes against their instinct. Now I am not saying that those women chose abortion for the sole reason of not wanting a baby, of course their are a lot of things involve. What I am saying is that, for them, instinct is less significant. Also you might be only thinking about the sort of abortion that is done with a developed fetus. There are other sorts of abortion that is done at early stage,like physically exhausting yourself or eating something to induce miscarriage, which is probably more common than reported.

Abortion is very complicated. I've always stood strongly against it, not because I'm a Catholic, but because they showed us a live X-Ray of one during religious studies in secondary school. I've never been more horrified. The poor thing was still alive until the end. I've never gotten that image out of my head but it was a Catholic school so, that was their aim. I am shocked about starving and forcing a miscarriage, that is particularly disturbing. As I say, it's complicated.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

That's cool. That is your own personal preference. It is rarely the same case for another. This might be shocking to you, but for most people their partner is more important than a marriage belief. 

My point here is that if a couple is committed to be together, it might be beneficial to consider marriage for legal and financial purposes like residency, mortgages, health insurance, etc. Both will benefit and all of this can be changed back. Most people who doesn't find marriage to be meaningful but still marry, and they marry for these benefits. I'm not encouraging all couple to get married. I'm just saying that it is beneficial and worth considering. You made it clear this is not what you want. I KNOW. Maybe it is not to you, this is just an FYI for the OP and other people.

And there is no need to sacrifice beliefs if you find a partner who shares your belief. No one can force you to be with someone you don't like. 

Yeah, I know. I've only ever been in love once and it wasn't necessarily that that tainted any future romance, it was logic. Very logical man. Getting harder the older I get, though. I need it to make sense of the world. I think the thing is though, is that everyone is different. You never know what the world can throw at you. There may be a girl who can change all this, I highly doubt it, hasn't happened in 10 years, but it's important for many to keep an open mind. Personally, I fight change for as long as I can but every defence has a chink the armour, even of its not obvious where it is.

One point: doesn't she get all your stuff if you break up? I might have got that wrong. That would put me off. I really like my television...

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

Of course you have to be compatible with your partner. And children and marriage is not a trivial matter to most people. I think you might be in the minority here. 

I meant trivial for me, but as a generalisation, yes, not trivial.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

Ok, there are women who does that but there are also men and it takes two to tango(you know what I mean?). Relationship is really a mutual thing. But anyway, my point here is that marriage can be beneficial to committed couples. To you it might be a pointless thing, but to many many others the benefits are not pointless.

Well, as I said, the situation may change. But to me, at this moment, I really don't see a point in it. To some, it's the greatest achievement in life, to others, it's just all about nothing really. You could say that for a great many things.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

This is why it's difficult to generalize.

Yup, you are right about that. It's a difficult issue, period. Well, complicated.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

Ok. Hmm, well, you ought to set priorities and live your life. Don't let you parents dictate you. If they are not being understanding then- I actually don't know what to say to you. What I do is not tell my parents about my love life. We are actually in exact opposite situation. My mother doesn't want me to be dating at all and I'm already an adult. She's afraid to lose me because she doesn't want all those years she wasted raising me to go to waste (financially). I don't like upsetting my parents either. I do appreciate her raising me and both of them being a good provider. So I just keep quiet about what she doesn't want to hear, and only tell her what she wants to hear about that are true. Maybe that can work for you too. I dunno.

I think it's more, "It's the life we'd like for you, if not, we'd feel like you haven't lived your life to the fullest", regarding kids and marriage. I think it's important to remember they were born in the '50s when that was the normal view to have. They married when they were 21 and 40 years later, they're still married. Worked for them, I suppose.

I don't tell my parents much, anyway. They know very little. They know nothing about me actually. I don't like people who psychically know me knowing me, if you know what I mean. I hope you do, because I don't.

I find complete silence is the best medicine.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

You shouldn't be afraid to lose her if you can definitely live without her.

That's actually quite a beautiful quote. And very true.

Sept 2, 2013 17:02:10 GMT -5 pancake said:

I know the media has done so well creating an illusion on how marriage is to be. Well, those are loads of BS. Like how they make the proposal to be a big surprise? It shouldn't be. That sort of decision should have been discussed prior proposal. Or at least the couple know that they are on the same page on how they want to live together. I think we both agree on this. But in your case, you want that belief of no marriage thing settled down on the first day. That's cool. I guess that can work for you. I'm just letting the OP know the other options and possibilities.

Agreed. I like boundaries, logic, order, plans, barriers, goals (preferably on an Excel spreadsheet bar graph), but yes, lots of options out there.

Think of me as a living incarnation of Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory (I get called that quite a lot) and then decide if you would take his advice. If not, I was never here...

[disturbed]

Sept 2, 2013 4:59:52 GMT -5 Sweet Pea said:

how old are you, disturbed?

Hi Sweetpea, i'm 25

[disturbed]

Thanks everyone for all the replies, opinions and advice, i defiantly don't aim to offend anyone with what i'm about to write, but the reason i don't want kids is because i don't believe it is right to bring new life into this world, what if you give birth do a kid who has a horrible illness, or is disabled, has mental health, or a child who is going to be a victim of rape/bullying, or a child who is going to grow up to be the next Ted Bundy or Adolf Hitler, it is very likely you will give birth to a kid like that, just look at the world, if i had a kid who grew up to be how i use to be i would feel really bad and sorry, and you are likely to take after your parents.
My reasons for not wanting to get married is, it doesn't mean anything to me, it doesn't make sense to me, if you are in love, then thats it, end of story, the two of you are a couple, why do you need a church and a vicar to confirm it, and who is a vicar to do this for you anyway. (i'm not religious)

Like i said no offence is intended here, everyone to their own.