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Post by pansy on Oct 31, 2005 4:59:50 GMT -5
Pansy, your arguments don't make sense. How does being solely chemical/biological in any way lead to people being "just meat" or having a right to kill one another? cause we invented rights. yeah, what he said...basically...i think... ;D |
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Post by pansy on Oct 31, 2005 5:02:12 GMT -5
We may be meat, but we are talking/typing meat!!! LOL! talking typing meat...love it...can i borrow that? ;D |
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Post by Paulinus on Oct 31, 2005 6:07:50 GMT -5
I simply think the way everything came to be is probably something far too complex for our tiny human minds to ever understand.
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Post by Buzzz on Oct 31, 2005 19:01:24 GMT -5
I simply think the way everything came to be is probably something far too complex for our tiny human minds to ever understand. Well put. My sentiments exactly. |
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Post by sushiboat on Oct 31, 2005 21:15:17 GMT -5
Sure, we can imagine all kinds of things. Some of them might be real. But just because you can imagine it doesn't make it real. Just because you want it to be real doesn't make it so.
I like fiction just as much as anyone else. I just don't forget that it's fiction.
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Post by Tal on Nov 1, 2005 4:15:28 GMT -5
like in stories involving native American elders trying to teach the old ways to an impatient young man who just wants to abandon culture and take the family "into the future". I do agree there are things from the past we should keep/relearn and rushing headfirst into the future is just as dangerous as remaining bogged down in the past. However I wouldn't personally hold onto Gods and religions, but more practical customs and traditions - community/family values perhaps. there is so much more to life than just bare naked science. and this attitude that 'science know everything' is just arrogance masquerading as science. TRUE science will recognize that we are always ever seeking ever learning. Well science doesn't understand everything, but it has the potential to do so, imo...that is unless God is above all laws of nautre/physics etc. If so then perhaps you're right, but again ints pure speculation as to such a beings existence. as someone with Absouloutly NO scientific credentials whatsoever I find NONE ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADDA scientific reasons or reasons why a being (1) can only exists in a purely physical form and not as [energy] spirit. (2)why such a being couldn’t have evolved long before anything else and be more advanced than any of us. (3)wield almost limitless amounts of energy and manipulate the very forces of the universe and even the very fabric of reality, time and space. (indeed we ourselves may someday develop these attributes) Well you make a good point, and I agree there is certainly potential for beings to exist in such a state, to be more powerful than us and perhaps to manipulate time and space. But if we're relegating God to an alien, then I think he loses his 'Godly' status. Why should I worship him. I don't worship powerful people on this planet, so why should I worship then on others, or in space. The possibility of life originating elsewhere in our universe is quite legitimate - there may be a creator of some kind, but without knowing if he's sitting watching us, it seems silly to go praying in churches and fighting wars in his name etc etc. Nonetheless you're right, we can't disprove it and the argument will just go around in circles, as these kinds always do. |
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Post by sushiboat on Nov 1, 2005 5:43:02 GMT -5
Ideas are great. What science does, however, is to test ideas by trying to connect them with observed facts. Science takes risks. If the idea is only something you think about or talk about, there is no risk. You never go beyond the platitude of "Anything is possible." You don't make predictions that could fail. You don't submit your work to peers who make their living by being critical and original. Science is not a conspiracy; in some ways, it's like a gunfight in the Wild West. If you publish something startlingly new and different, you may have a dozen or a hundred academics gunning for you, either launching their careers or defending their own theories. The Big Bang and evolution went through this rigorous process of testing and peer review. The competition cannot leap these hurdles.
"Anything is possible" is just a way of saying you know nothing. If that's true, why bother listening to you?
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Post by Bodhi on Nov 1, 2005 11:01:44 GMT -5
But if we're relegating God to an alien, then I think he loses his 'Godly' status. Why should I worship him. I don't worship powerful people on this planet, so why should I worship then on others, or in space. This is related to a question I always had, if God does exist, why does he want us to worship Him? If you are a good parent, you will love your children no matter what, even if they don't love you back. Yet for God, his children are sent to eternal Hell if they don't love him back. Does that make sense? Is God that insecure in himself that he needs everyone to love him unconditionally or else he sends them to Hell? In my opinion a real all loving God will love everyone no matter what, and accept them all into his fold. |
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Post by wonkothesane on Nov 1, 2005 12:28:06 GMT -5
cause we invented rights. Exactly..... Wait, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? lol Not sure really!!!!!!!!!!!  My head head hurts  God or not we should probably stop trying to/ and coming up with new ways of killing each other, especially in her/his/it's/their names I just wish people (myself included) would have a bit more faith in themselves here and now and not in what might or might not be. If you prayed harder would you really be comfortable in knowing that you got something you wanted or got helped more at the expense of somebody who prayed a little less- in my opinion that would be a sick twisted vain god that would work on that level. There's a folk tale in Ireland about a warrior called Oisin who travels to Tir na hOige (land of Youth) with a beautiful princess Niamh, and like most folk tales there are many different versions of it- anyway the version I like- after three years in Tir na hOige Oisin misses Ireland and the people he left behind and wants to go back a visit them. He gets permission on one condition, Niamh tells him that his feet do not touch the ground when he gets there or he will never be able to return to Tir na hOige. So Niamh give Oisin her Horse which carries him back, but when he gets there everything is changed- a year in Tir na hOige is like 100 years in Ireland. Everybody he knows is gone even the old gods and a new religion christianity has come. Still he travels arround looking at his old home and comes accros two men trying to move a boulder. Being the warrior he is he offers them help and attempts to lift the boulder, he does this but the saddle snaps and he falls to the ground- as soon as he does Niamhs Horse runs off and he rappidly begins to age his body taking on the years he should truly be. The two men a horrified at what has happened and bring the now ancient warrior to the local saint, conviently St.Patrick. who will give him the last rights. Oisin is rapidly dying but tells St.Patrick his story and Patrick tells him that he must be baptised before death in order to go to this new afterlife. Oisin asks if the heroes and good people of ancient times will be there too and Patrick says no because they where not baptized. Oisin say he would rather go to hell then meet a god who would not recognise goodness no matter what and dies. Strangely the first time this story would have been written down, it would have been done by a monk! I think there is a point to all that |
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Post by MrNice on Nov 1, 2005 13:41:57 GMT -5
I am not an expert on religion, but I think some people just use this notion of being a good (christian/muslim/citizen/...) to claim power and worthyness over others.
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Post by MrNice on Nov 1, 2005 15:17:40 GMT -5
Thats what communism was supposed to be.
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Post by MrNice on Nov 1, 2005 15:33:10 GMT -5
My personal theory is that christian religion is gaining momentum in opposition to islam.
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Post by wagnerr on Nov 1, 2005 15:59:13 GMT -5
My personal theory is that christian religion is gaining momentum in opposition to islam. The opposite could be true also, Lsdima. What i don't quite understand is the rise in Muslim fundamentalism in central Asia and where it came from. Possibly from anti-westernism, but i think there's more than that. |
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Post by pansy on Nov 2, 2005 1:20:48 GMT -5
"But just because you can imagine it doesn't make it real. Just because you want it to be real doesn't make it so." says the guy who videotaped the big bang lol. exactly! ;D |
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Post by pansy on Nov 2, 2005 1:32:00 GMT -5
Ideas are great. What science does, however, is to test ideas by trying to connect them with observed facts. Science takes risks. If the idea is only something you think about or talk about, there is no risk. You never go beyond the platitude of "Anything is possible." You don't make predictions that could fail. You don't submit your work to peers who make their living by being critical and original. Science is not a conspiracy; in some ways, it's like a gunfight in the Wild West. If you publish something startlingly new and different, you may have a dozen or a hundred academics gunning for you, either launching their careers or defending their own theories. The Big Bang and evolution went through this rigorous process of testing and peer review. The competition cannot leap these hurdles. "Anything is possible" is just a way of saying you know nothing. If that's true, why bother listening to you? I wouldn't listen to anyone who wasn't willing to admit they might in fact know nothing. Virtually all of science is theoretical. Theories stand until disproved. |
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