Is there a God?

[Naptaq]

lsdima said:

out of all possible religions, only one must be correct and ALL others wrong - or NONE of them are correct

You ain't taking everything in account. Every major religion teaches similar things, however they differantiate in the way they present things, the cultural influences and so on. They changed over time. But unless it's a.. say a Christian fundamentalist church, it generally teaches good things. For example the Golden Rule is in every major religion in one way or another and people who live by that are the great benefactors of humanity.

And quotes:

"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." The Dalai Lama

"God has no religion."
Mahatma Gandhi

And I think Gandhi said this too: "Thank God there's no religion in heaven"

[MrNice]

You ain't taking everything in account. Every major religion teaches similar things, however they differantiate in the way they present things, the cultural influences and so on. They changed over time. But unless it's a.. say a Christian fundamentalist church, it generally teaches good things. For example the Golden Rule is in every major religion in one way or another and people who live by that are the great benefactors of humanity.

And quotes:

"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." The Dalai Lama

"God has no religion."
Mahatma Gandhi

And I think Gandhi said this too: "Thank God there's no religion in heaven"

the teachings come from people
the question is - does it come from god - or do people just come up with them because they figured out that they are good?
secular humanism also emphasizes good values without appealing to god

Jesus christ either existed and was son of god, was resurrected etc.. or its a lie
Do you really think there is no difference between the two scenarios because both islam and christianity teach good values?

[Naptaq]

lsdima said:

secular humanism also emphasizes good values without appealing to god

Definitely.

Some people want to leave God out of everything and call it something else instead. And that's fine. I've seen in Gandhi's quotes for example that he regards God as Truth with a capital T.

People who become ateist or agnostic throw stupid concept's of God outta the window. Rightly so.

the teachings come from people
the question is - does it come from god - or do people just come up with them because they figured out that they are good?

Maybe both
I think it's a valid point that we're all connected, like a holistic universe, one big unity so God's not really up there, in my opinion..

To quote Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you"

So, I think God is out there and in here.

I've heard Scott Peck argue that it was a mistranslation and that what Jesus actually said was "The Kingdom of God is among you" suggesting that you're more likely to find God in intepersonal reletionship, .. in society or something? I forget his conclusion.. anyway... ;D

I find the concept of a God that throws people that don't belive in him in hell, ridicolus. If there's a God, he has at least as much common sense as you..or anybody else on the planet for that matter.

[MrNice]

If there's a God, he has at least as much common sense as you..or anybody else on the planet for that matter.

its nice to attribute god with human qualities - but its not necessarily the case

To quote Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you"

how nice of you to quote Jesus - a quote that was written down by god knows who on a verbal account of god knows who god knows where when and under what circumstances, pun intended

I've heard Scott Peck argue that it was a mistranslation and that what Jesus actually said was "The Kingdom of God is among you" suggesting that you're more likely to find God in intepersonal reletionship, .. in society or something? I forget his conclusion.. anyway...

I don't know who scott peck is, but I find the whole idea of trying to interpret the holy texts and fit them within your own views as a counterargument to their veracity

[MrNice]

Some people want to leave God out of everything and call it something else instead.

no, its that some people want to take something and call it god
i can see this line of reasoning coming from someone that was raised with the idea of god being everywhere and in all things, but personally I grew up without god as an explanation to anything and the attempts to insert god everywhere seem very strange to me

[Naptaq]

lsdima said:

I find the whole idea of trying to interpret the holy texts and fit them within your own views as a counterargument to their veracity

Right... well, suit yourself.

[phoenixferret]

sweetpea said:

lsdima said:

there is a certain place in believing anything - but it doesn't make it true
I can understand why one would want to believe in something that saves your butt in a tough situation - certainly when I feel helpless with no one to turn to I would like to think that there is something that can help me - but wishful thinking is not a convincing argument for truth

well, when something stops an anxiety attack, it's very convincing.

How good a thought feels doesn't bear any relation to its truth. It may feel good, for instance, to imagine that a dead relative is actually alive and living it up in Florida. I read a particularly good example a long time ago: it feels good for the parents of a child killed in an accident to believe the doctors who lie through their teeth and say "he didn't suffer." That doesn't make it true--and yet the parents might as well be allowed to hold onto this fiction, because it feels a lot better than knowing the objective, painful, and irrelevant truth.

Since anxiety attacks are basically brought on by intense thoughts/feelings, it comes as no surprise that thought can overcome one. Anything that relaxes you and that you believe in as a cure would probably have a similar effect, wouldn't you expect?

I would say next that accepting that as true would mean accepting that just because a thought relaxes you doesn't make it true, but the interesting thing here is that people tend to equate deep relaxation and peacefulness with spiritual experience, as though calm itself were evidence of a higher power. I can't remember what the logical fallacy is, but it works like: "God is peacefulness. Peacefulness exists. Therefore, God exists." A circular argument, I think it is. It starts out with the assumption that God exists, and that this God is peacefulness itself, and then uses that assumption to prove itself: if God exists, he must exist.

It may feel convincing, to be sure, but not everything in life is intuitive. You've studied psychology, SP; you must be aware of all the ways our minds can trick us into accepting a false conclusion. That's not to say that this fact proves that God doesn't exist, but surely it provides another possibility--one that I'm more prepared to accept, myself, because it's something that I have (that every human being has) extensive experience with: the fact that feelings and intuition can be just plain wrong a lot of the time, as convincing as it does feel.

[Sweet Pea]

phoenixferret said:

sweetpea said:

well, when something stops an anxiety attack, it's very convincing.

How good a thought feels doesn't bear any relation to its truth. It may feel good, for instance, to imagine that a dead relative is actually alive and living it up in Florida. I read a particularly good example a long time ago: it feels good for the parents of a child killed in an accident to believe the doctors who lie through their teeth and say "he didn't suffer." That doesn't make it true--and yet the parents might as well be allowed to hold onto this fiction, because it feels a lot better than knowing the objective, painful, and irrelevant truth.

Since anxiety attacks are basically brought on by intense thoughts/feelings, it comes as no surprise that thought can overcome one. Anything that relaxes you and that you believe in as a cure would probably have a similar effect, wouldn't you expect?

I would say next that accepting that as true would mean accepting that just because a thought relaxes you doesn't make it true, but the interesting thing here is that people tend to equate deep relaxation and peacefulness with spiritual experience, as though calm itself were evidence of a higher power. I can't remember what the logical fallacy is, but it works like: "God is peacefulness. Peacefulness exists. Therefore, God exists." A circular argument, I think it is. It starts out with the assumption that God exists, and that this God is peacefulness itself, and then uses that assumption to prove itself: if God exists, he must exist.

It may feel convincing, to be sure, but not everything in life is intuitive. You've studied psychology, SP; you must be aware of all the ways our minds can trick us into accepting a false conclusion. That's not to say that this fact proves that God doesn't exist, but surely it provides another possibility--one that I'm more prepared to accept, myself, because it's something that I have (that every human being has) extensive experience with: the fact that feelings and intuition can be just plain wrong a lot of the time, as convincing as it does feel.

hey, i'm not trying to defend it as a universal objective truth or anything. but i gotta admit, the more i study psychology and the world at large, the more i believe most 'truth' is actually subjective.