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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 8, 2007 16:16:50 GMT -5
Argh, must get off SU! ;D But I think so, too.  Islamic terrorists haven't got one past us on our own soil since 9/11, but Christian fundamentalism seems to be infesting our national outlook and government policies to a disturbing degree, at times. I'm currently more worried about having my personal rights infringed by the far right than I am about getting blown up in a holy jihad. I'd still take a crazy Christian fundamentalist over a crazy Islamic fundamentalist any day. The Christian wouldn't call for my death over naming a teddy bear.
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Post by Tal on Dec 8, 2007 17:57:22 GMT -5
Let me pose a question: Do you believe that you yourself came from NOTHING? Well that is what will always make me believe there is a "higher being" out there so to speak. Who or what it is, is pretty open to debate imo, but essentially something can not come from nothing. I mean there are other theories of course, but such an argument as the "big bang" is extremely far fetched imo. Well the fact that the universe is expanding does rather support the Big Bang, but even if we are to assume no Big Bang occured, that doesn't provide any rational argument for a creator. This is exactly what our ancestors did when they saw lightning, or heard thunder...they associated it with an unseen actor - a God. When you find a question you can't quite answer or something that seems too crazy to fit the rather narrow view of the world that our Human minds generally deal with, it's an instinctive reaction to go for the God argument. |
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Post by HybridMoment on Dec 8, 2007 20:14:05 GMT -5
I'd still take a crazy Christian fundamentalist over a crazy Islamic fundamentalist any day. The Christian wouldn't call for my death over naming a teddy bear.
Well I couldn't actually view the video, because I have a dial up internet connection and I have to wait hours for it to load. But I've heard of the movie Jesus Camp and a camp leader that wanted Harry Potter dead. People are shocked at Christian extremist because they are rare. I live in the "bible belt" and Harry Potter is as popular as ever here, violence not so much. Unlike radical Islam, people violently rioting in the streets with "Behead those who insult Islam" signs, any time they are offended. For every Becky Fisher type that exists in America, there are many more Muslim extremist that have already engaged in cruel acts towards their own followers. The other day when I read a headline about a rape victim getting 200 lashes for punishment related to her crime of "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape" I immediately knew what religion was related to this incident. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 8, 2007 21:14:00 GMT -5
Well I couldn't actually view the video, because I have a dial up internet connection and I have to wait hours for it to load. But I've heard of the movie Jesus Camp and a camp leader that wanted Harry Potter dead. People are shocked at Christian extremist because they are rare. I live in the "bible belt" and Harry Potter is as popular as ever here, violence not so much. Unlike radical Islam, people violently rioting in the streets with "Behead those who insult Islam" signs, any time they are offended. For every Becky Fisher type that exists in America, there are many more Muslim extremist that have already engaged in cruel acts towards their own followers. The other day when I read a headline about a rape victim getting 200 lashes for punishment related to her crime of "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape" I immediately knew what religion was related to this incident. believe me, there's no love lost between me and the people who force women to wear burkas, etc. but i believe the potential for fundamentalist religious types to use their religious beliefs as an excuse to infringe on the freedom of others exists everywhere. it's up to more reasonable people to keep a lid on that tendency when it rears its head imo. i just don't think you do it by increasing the sum total of hate. |
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Linzi
Junior Member
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Post by Linzi on Dec 9, 2007 11:25:34 GMT -5
Well that is what will always make me believe there is a "higher being" out there so to speak. Who or what it is, is pretty open to debate imo, but essentially something can not come from nothing. I mean there are other theories of course, but such an argument as the "big bang" is extremely far fetched imo. Well the fact that the universe is expanding does rather support the Big Bang, but even if we are to assume no Big Bang occured, that doesn't provide any rational argument for a creator. This is exactly what our ancestors did when they saw lightning, or heard thunder...they associated it with an unseen actor - a God. When you find a question you can't quite answer or something that seems too crazy to fit the rather narrow view of the world that our Human minds generally deal with, it's an instinctive reaction to go for the God argument. Well you can't create something from nothing, so a "big bang" is not going to happen unless there was something already there before. That of course is very feasible, but then again where did this come from. Of course I would like to think there is actually a God, and sure there is no scientific evidence to suggest God did actually exist, but I will always keep an open mind. |
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Post by Outcast on Dec 9, 2007 11:53:10 GMT -5
Well, for me at least, there will always be a God. And I believe that God will always be here watching over us all.  |
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Post by phoenixferret on Dec 10, 2007 7:48:59 GMT -5
Well the fact that the universe is expanding does rather support the Big Bang, but even if we are to assume no Big Bang occured, that doesn't provide any rational argument for a creator. This is exactly what our ancestors did when they saw lightning, or heard thunder...they associated it with an unseen actor - a God. When you find a question you can't quite answer or something that seems too crazy to fit the rather narrow view of the world that our Human minds generally deal with, it's an instinctive reaction to go for the God argument. Well you can't create something from nothing, so a "big bang" is not going to happen unless there was something already there before. That of course is very feasible, but then again where did this come from. Of course I would like to think there is actually a God, and sure there is no scientific evidence to suggest God did actually exist, but I will always keep an open mind. I think it's a big double standard to require an explanation of where the material for the Big Bang came from in order to see that explanation as feasible, yet the God explanation gets away with the simple claim, "well, he's all-powerful. He's always existed." "Something" must have either always existed or appeared out of nothing at some point, whether it's the material for the Big Bang, or God; a soup of weird crap that blew up, or an infinitely powerful sentient being who apparently is only interested in a tiny speck of matter called Earth. I must also point out, of course, that plenty of theists believe in both God and the Big Bang. God can be fit into any explanation of the universe, and I don't think that's necessarily an argument in his favor. |
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Post by HybridMoment on Dec 10, 2007 10:36:42 GMT -5
Well I couldn't actually view the video, because I have a dial up internet connection and I have to wait hours for it to load. But I've heard of the movie Jesus Camp and a camp leader that wanted Harry Potter dead. People are shocked at Christian extremist because they are rare. I live in the "bible belt" and Harry Potter is as popular as ever here, violence not so much. Unlike radical Islam, people violently rioting in the streets with "Behead those who insult Islam" signs, any time they are offended. For every Becky Fisher type that exists in America, there are many more Muslim extremist that have already engaged in cruel acts towards their own followers. The other day when I read a headline about a rape victim getting 200 lashes for punishment related to her crime of "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape" I immediately knew what religion was related to this incident. believe me, there's no love lost between me and the people who force women to wear burkas, etc. but i believe the potential for fundamentalist religious types to use their religious beliefs as an excuse to infringe on the freedom of others exists everywhere. it's up to more reasonable people to keep a lid on that tendency when it rears its head imo. i just don't think you do it by increasing the sum total of hate. That's why we have the Establishment clause with separation of church and state. I've never felt my freedom was infringed by a religion, although I'm constantly reminded of the newest religion environmentalism telling me to "go green" and accept Al Gore as my savior. |
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Post by malcom72 on Dec 10, 2007 13:45:05 GMT -5
If there is a god I have a question?
Why is it that in this life you are expected to make your own way and cannot expect any freebies from god, yet at the same time god seems to expect absolute faith, fidelity and loyalty in return. And if you fail to meet this it is YOU who is punished. This seems unequal much is expected of us, nothing is expected of god and we are the one who get judged in the end.
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Post by Astroruss on Dec 11, 2007 5:35:56 GMT -5
If there is a god I have a question? Why is it that in this life you are expected to make your own way and cannot expect any freebies from god, yet at the same time god seems to expect absolute faith, fidelity and loyalty in return. And if you fail to meet this it is YOU who is punished. This seems unequal much is expected of us, nothing is expected of god and we are the one who get judged in the end. If God expected absolute faith to him/her/it, then we would not have the power to think, consider, and imagine.  Look at so many of the great theologians/philosophers throughout history; most of them have supported deep, rational thought about existance, and yes, most have believed in the divine of some sort. You're trying to tell me that all of these men (and a few women too) are wrong because they dared to believe or consider in a divine sort of entity/entities even while writing and teaching others to examine their universe from both a faithful and rational point of view and fashion a way of life or philosophy? It still seems so obvious to me that it's the athiests that are wrong, because their thinking is so self-defeative in nature. I keep hearing so often that there is no God, no heaven, no divine entities of any kind, and that the universe just happened to appear in a concentrated form, to explode and expand in an infinite expansion of reality, forming a universe with almost clockwork precision and motion, one that defies all human attempts at chronological understanding and existance. My my! What an incredible non-divine driving universe we live in!!! ;D I'm so happy that the athiests who were not around when the universe was born (hint, hint ) have all the answers for us and completely insist that nothing else could possibly be, nothing else could be at work here. ;D As for the questions of human existance, existance period for that matter, i have no substantial answers for any of you. But that's not gonna stop me from speculating a hell of a lot. And as for accepting and comprehending other possible explanations for the existance of reality, other theologies or philosophies concieved of on the little bitty rock we call Earth, the only group i have a problem with are the atheists. |
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Post by Astroruss on Dec 11, 2007 5:38:07 GMT -5
Argh, must get off SU! ;D But I think so, too. Islamic terrorists haven't got one past us on our own soil since 9/11, but Christian fundamentalism seems to be infesting our national outlook and government policies to a disturbing degree, at times. I'm currently more worried about having my personal rights infringed by the far right than I am about getting blown up in a holy jihad. I'd still take a crazy Christian fundamentalist over a crazy Islamic fundamentalist any day. The Christian wouldn't call for my death over naming a teddy bear. So would I, for that matter. At least Christianity teaches people to love and tolerate one another, and not convert or kill any who dare to think otherwise. As for radicals, i say we should do all we can to convince them to chill out. ;D |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 11, 2007 8:13:49 GMT -5
out of all possible religions, only one must be correct and ALL others wrong - or NONE of them are correct
To me it seems that the latter makes more sense
and having problem with a whole group of people you don't understand is just bigotry.
whats obvious is that you pretty much have no clue about things like evolution or big bang and just repeat what you heard from other religious sources that try to discredit evidence by appealing to emotions and making stupid accusations such as atheists are immoral or have defeatist thinking and blanket meaningless statements like the universe defies all attempts to explain it. Thats just stupid. We have explained quite alot chasing god out of many places in the process.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 11, 2007 8:17:23 GMT -5
Well, for me at least, there will always be a God. And I believe that God will always be here watching over us all. it is a nice thought, isn't it? without god, who would care about my problems? who could i beseach for help when there are no humans who give a damn? there is a certain peace in believing there is a higher power to appeal to. |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 11, 2007 9:39:51 GMT -5
there is a certain place in believing anything - but it doesn't make it true
I can understand why one would want to believe in something that saves your butt in a tough situation - certainly when I feel helpless with no one to turn to I would like to think that there is something that can help me - but wishful thinking is not a convincing argument for truth
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 11, 2007 9:41:57 GMT -5
there is a certain place in believing anything - but it doesn't make it true I can understand why one would want to believe in something that saves your butt in a tough situation - certainly when I feel helpless with no one to turn to I would like to think that there is something that can help me - but wishful thinking is not a convincing argument for truth well, when something stops an anxiety attack, it's very convincing. |
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Islamic terrorists haven't got one past us on our own soil since 9/11, but Christian fundamentalism seems to be infesting our national outlook and government policies to a disturbing degree, at times. I'm currently more worried about having my personal rights infringed by the far right than I am about getting blown up in a holy jihad. 
