Is there a God?

[pnoopiepnats]

ellis said:

Religion says to me that you can do whatever you want on Monday thru Saturday. You can lie, cheat, steal , whore, and generally screw people over. All you have to do is show up for church on Sunday, and its all good. All is forgiven and you start again Monday with a clean slate.

I like that.

As a bonus, you get to feel superior to other people who don't go to church.

Its all goodness. How can you lose with a plan like that?

and plenty really do that too.

[MrNice]

www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm#The%20Big%20Picture

there is really no atheists, and staments like atheists this, atheists that, is only an indicator of misdirected blame and anger
same goes for scientists
alot scientists are in fact religiously affiliated

[pansy]

reject29 said:

no but seriously guys. im sorry if i went overboard esp in my response to luther. luther i apolize to you personally. i actually am having a nervous breakdown right now. and my faith is the only thing keep me steady. but thats no excuse right? sorry i upset you pansy. i told you i didnt want to get mouthy :'-( from now on my mouth is under house arrest.
as you said......
peace.

I am not upset. Promise. And my remarks were directed to all of us (me included), not to you in particular. Again promise. ;D

[pansy]

sushiboat said:

pansy said:

I wouldn't listen to anyone who wasn't willing to admit they might in fact know nothing. Virtually all of science is theoretical. Theories stand until disproved.

How is it possible for you to know nothing? Here are some things I know.

1. My own existence. See Descartes' cogito.
2. Language.
3. Other procedural skills related to communicating my opinion in a post (e.g., typing, operating a web broswer).
4. My opinion.
5. An awareness of the immediate past. (Otherwise, as I am typing, I would forget what I am doing.)

Certainty is a red herring. I haven't claimed absolute certainty. However, we can know some things with reasonable confidence. Other things are educated guesses. Still others are wild speculation without any basis in confirmed observations. Beliefs in gods and spirits are in the final category.

So 'I perceive my own thoughts therefore I know they exist' works but 'I perceive my own spirit therefore I know it exists' doesn't work. So we are still choosing to accept certain perceptual knowledge and not other perceptual knowledge. There's still a value judgement at work there. You can't 'see' thoughts any more than you can 'see' spirit. So how can you accept the existence of one, and reject the existence of another, based on what an individual 'knows' is going on internally?

I say you can't know anything with absolute certainty because the mind is a trickster. We have memories of things that never happened for instance. And people sometimes lose all memory of the distant and immediate past, and yet still appear to exist to themselves and to those around them. We all have a filter through which we see all of 'reality' which actually alters our perceptions of reality considerably. For these reasons, I think approaching these matters with a little humility is a good idea.

[sushiboat]

pansy, you're turning up the smoke machine. You can argue along this line, but you can't live it. If you live for any length of time as though your senses are completely unreliable, you will die.

I have no problem with uncertainty. But it's silly to argue that we should be equally uncertain about everything. It's a continuum. It may not be prudent to be 100% (apart from certain logical deductions like the cogito) or 0% convinced that something is true, but everything in between is fair game. Those things that have no evidence are much closer to the 0% end.

[pansy]

sushiboat said:

pansy, you're turning up the smoke machine. You can argue along this line, but you can't live it. If you live for any length of time as though your senses are completely unreliable, you will die.

I have no problem with uncertainty. But it's silly to argue that we should be equally uncertain about everything. It's a continuum. It may not be prudent to be 100% (apart from certain logical deductions like the cogito) or 0% convinced that something is true, but everything in between is fair game. Those things that have no evidence are much closer to the 0% end.

I did not say that our senses are completely unreliable, but they are limited. I also did not argue that we should be equally uncertain about everything. Just that arrogance about what we 'know' is inappropriate. I think if we all approach the mysteries of life with humility we are less likely to make perceptual mistakes. I feel that we have to remain open in order to perceive the unexpected.

[Samantha]

reject29 said:

no but seriously guys. im sorry if i went overboard esp in my response to luther. luther i apolize to you personally. i actually am having a nervous breakdown right now. and my faith is the only thing keep me steady. but thats no excuse right? sorry i upset you pansy. i told you i didnt want to get mouthy :'-( from now on my mouth is under house arrest.
as you said......
peace.

Eh, no worries Reject. I'm thick I have a thick skin ;D Plus I'm plenty guilty of getting a little 'excited' when I'm having a bad day or something. Apologies if I came across as attacking you, that wasn't my intention. I hope I didn't add to your stress.

I also hope you start feeling better soon. The rant section can be good stress relief if that might help ;D

[Knox]

yes, i believe there is a God,,,, proof? I dont have any, and I dont need any, it's called faith....

[Sigh]

I'm not sure if there's a God or not... but there is an iGod hahaha

[wonkothesane]

knox said:

yes, i believe there is a God,,,, proof? I dont have any, and I dont need any, it's called faith....

That's cheating ;D

[wonkothesane]

wonkothesane said:

knox said:

yes, i believe there is a God,,,, proof? I dont have any, and I dont need any, it's called faith....

That's cheating ;D

I'm actually planning to go to a real life 'Is there a God' debate tomorrow- I let you all know if any divinity puts in a surprise appearance

[wagnerr]

knox said:

yes, i believe there is a God,,,, proof? I dont have any, and I dont need any, it's called faith....

I think faith has a great deal to do with believing in a god or not.

If you have no faith, then no, you won't believe in any sort of higher power or not.

Of course, i do think it's ludicrous that the universe came into being without any driving force at all, that it all happened by chance, but hey? I guess darwinists have faith after all!!

[thedman05]

I would just like to bring up some interesting history and parallels between two religions.

The Ancient Egyptians believed in many gods. They had the main god 'Amun Ra', the king of the gods, they also had many lesser gods and of course there were some humans who, when they died, 'became' gods.

Eventually, a phearoh, named Akhenhotep (later he changed his name to Akhenaten), came along who suddenly 'decided' that there was only one god, the Aten. He was assassinated, because the priests of the old religion wanted their jobs back.

Now, the interesting bit. The Old Testament would have us believe, when you compare the dates, about 100 years after Akhenaten was killed, Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt with the belief of one god.

Now the parallel.

Egyptians - A king of the gods (the main man), many lesser gods, and humans who 'become' gods when they die.

Christianity (Catholicism at least) - God, angels (helpers of God), and people who 'become' saints when they die.

Anyone who doesn't believe will probably find this fascinating. Those of you who do 'believe' will, no doubt, dismiss the similarities.

What I am saying is, I believe God/gods are entirely the fabrication of the human mind.

It is possible that all modern monotheistic religions come from the belief in the Aten. Atenism became Judaism; Christianity came from Judaism, and so did Islam. There are, of course, many sub-religions that have come from these.

When a better idea comes along it's incredible how easily religions change.

[bananas]

www.tlig.org

have you heard of her? recommend reading this www.tlig.org/danielstart.html

what do you think?

thedman: you have a point. but it might not be more than a point.

[Bodhi]

boy said:

www.tlig.org

have you heard of her? recommend reading this www.tlig.org/danielstart.html

what do you think?

thedman: you have a point. but it might not be more than a point.

Personally I think its bogus. She is selling books of this talking to God, and thus she has a motive to lie. Although maybe she believes it herself on some level, but I just can't accept she is one of the chosen people on earth who God talks to. Why her and not anyone else?