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Post by Naptaq on Apr 17, 2008 11:58:39 GMT -5
Now, I'm not an American nor a practising Christian, but I can't help but wonder what the hell the [American] media is doing. The media plays a very crucial role in shaping the public's opinion. It seems like there's no rules anymore. In Franklin D. Roosevelt's time the media was respecteful. They only printed news that was "fit for print". Now there's no chance a great man, in a wheelchair, would get elected in the White House. Not to mention the 'Hate Bush' meme.. It's become OK to hate Bush, in some circles. Ok, here's an example of what I'm talking about. Bill Maher does it again: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaEyEWm6ke4Bill Maher is a slander kinda guy, yet very popular. Any thoughts? |
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gaia
New Member
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Post by gaia on Apr 17, 2008 15:43:01 GMT -5
I'm not American or a practicing Christian either.
It's all about freedom of speech I suppose.
I think these days just about anything can be said under the guise of 'comedy' particularly.
Probably because people making the remarks can say "You shouldn't be offended.. It was only a joke!"...
That makes it appear to be the problem of the audience if it's taken in a negative way and therefore the people making the remarks needn't take any responsibility.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 17, 2008 17:25:44 GMT -5
the point bill o'reilly made about how no other religion would get treated like this without an outcry is absolutely true. we have a tendency to lend strength to the minorities, and expect the majority to fend for itself in this country. there's no perception that the christian church needs any help or support in the press because it dominates the american religious scene. but the catholic church did turn a blind eye to the institutional child sexual abuse going on within the church. and the leader of any organization has to take the heat when the organization screws up. bush is hated because he has made life harder for so many in this country with his inept leadership. he earned the hatred he is getting in my opinion. as far as hating america goes, we don't hate our country. we want it back.
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Post by phoenixferret on Apr 17, 2008 17:44:32 GMT -5
1. Hating Christianity--are you talking about the "war on Christmas?" Christianity is alive and well in this country, despite the insistence of some right-wing sources that Christians are being persecuted. The ones who get made fun of are those who think sex is a sin, creationism is science, and that it's their duty to inform everyone of the Good Word, but that's a minority--a small but rather vocal minority. I get the impression that most self-identified Christians are embarrassed to be associated with that kind of thing. 2. The wheelchair thing doesn't make much sense to me; I'm not sure what your point is there. If the American public wouldn't elect a guy in a wheelchair to office--and I don't think you can claim that arbitrarily, though you might speculate--then I think that reveals a problem with the electorate, not with the media for revealing the handicap. As far as what's "fit to print," what boundaries would you impose? I agree that not everything in the news is necessarily newsworthy, but I don't know if I'd feel comfortable censoring a lot of it, either. With many of the sex scandals, on the one hand I think, "I don't need to hear about these people's private lives;" but when it comes to the homophobic senator who turns out to be gay, or the governor who staunchly opposes prostitution while secretly frequenting high-priced hookers... I think that's all fair game, even if it might not have been considered fit to print in the past. All the celebrity crap they can do away with as far as I'm concerned, lol, but it seems like the obsession is an old one; only the focus on their sex lives is newish. 3. It's acceptable to "hate Bush" openly partly because it's become popular, that much is true; and it does get old sometimes, mainly because it's such a cheap shot to make fun of the guy... But it's become popular in the first place in great part because so many people believe he just plain sucks as a president. He thrust the country into a war that he seems incompetent to handle and incapable of justifying--I don't think he even tries anymore, really, but I haven't been keeping up with the news much. Last I heard, the final explanation was still rather vague. He's passed laws that erode the rights to privacy, free speech, and fair trials, and that support of the military's use of torture to extract information. He is against women's right to choose; against gay marriage; against stem cell research. He's for teaching children "Intelligent Design," a.k.a. Creationism, as an actual scientific theory. The economy seems to be slipping down the toilet--I don't know how far one can hold him responsible for that, but this unfortunate trend certainly isn't an argument for his capability as president. And however intelligent he may be deep down inside, he just plain makes our country look like a nation of idiots when he opens his mouth. I know that's a bit of a superficial complaint, but I would really wish that our president would in all ways represent our best side, not our worst. From what I understand, he pretty much epitomizes the negative stereotypes out there about Americans.  And as trivial as that sounds, I think it does have an affect on our standing in the world, however slight. I don't "hate" the man personally for any of that, but I think he really stinks as our leader, and I can definitely see why it's become a "thing" to hate on him. Liberal comedian John Stewart (host of the Daily Show, which is a satirical look at politics and the media) has made the point in the past that while he's glad Bush makes his job so easy, he's also frightened by it, lol. People have been making fun of our elected officials for a long time, but it takes a little something special to cross over from being just the butt of occasional jokes, to being a joke, period. And I don't think hating Bush is equivalent to hating America, at all, I hasten to add. Some right-wing pundits tend to make this claim, but it's a bit of a leap, and tends to be used thusly, as far as I can tell: if you hate Bush, then you hate America, because Bush is the president of America; and if you hate America, you're you're a bad American. Therefore your opinion of the president is wrong and invalid. Speaking for myself, I am fond enough of this country to be dismayed by the idea of having a guy I think is a doofus as our leader. Some people may extend their disgust with the government to disgust with the country as a whole; but I think even many of the people who say they "hate this country" really mean they hate the direction it seems to be going in. 4. If you want to talk about hate-filled talking heads, you're forgetting Bill O'Reilly, to name one. He's a rather unpleasant blowhard, in my opinion; Christian to the bone (ready to fight for it, and not doing his cause much good, either); intellectually dishonest--and he's extremely popular. John Stewart, to mention his name again... He and Stephen Colbert are more the heroic figures of the left. I think they tend to be taken rather more seriously than Maher in general, also. Well this was fun to write. I've been feeling a little wound up this week, and this was actually kind of relaxing. |
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 17, 2008 23:33:50 GMT -5
Jihad means "Holy" War. I love America and I think they did an excillent job in slowing down this Jihadist movement, that would eventually, if left unchecked, want to exterminate everyone, with oil money, that is not of their fundamentalist terrorist religion/hatred. This, to me, seems a very serious thing and, again, Bush, in my veiw of it, is a good guy.
I am a big fan of Bill O'Reilly, because he has an uncanny knack for spotting nonintegrity. His popularity and top-rated and watched show is not an accident.
So, Naptaq respecetully disagrees with Phoenix Farret.
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 17, 2008 23:35:51 GMT -5
Bill Maher will apperently apologize for his remarks, so there is some common sense at HBO.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 18, 2008 0:02:22 GMT -5
I've been feeling a little wound up this week... i noticed.  |
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Post by Astroruss on Apr 18, 2008 11:20:19 GMT -5
I think the verbal attacks on American and Christianity strain from attacks on 'old money'. I am a practicing Roman Catholic of American origin myself. I am somewhat devout, but nor am i a rightwing nutjob trying to be about a new global armaggedon or second coming, hehehe.  It's all about money and power and influence. Christianity has been the major western religion, of many sects, for many centuries now. Attacking this religion is seen as progress by west because it is considered old and sterile and demoded. Similarly, Hinduism and Confucianism and Budhism also are under attacks in the East, for very similar reasons. They are the Old Money of the East. Attacking the flaws in all these religions is an attempt to jump on the shoulders of the Big Boys in Power with a Sleeper Hold. They're using the influence and power as a stepping stone to become big. That's all it is. Similarly, verbal attacks on America? Same thing. America, and the western powers, have been the Big Boys for the last century or two, and attacking these powers gains one influence and recognition in the short run, and power and money in the long run. Speaking of which, i feel it is high time that Science, Islam, Communism, and other powerful New Money forces receive their fair share of attacks and abuse. Turnabout is faird play. The more they resist these attacks, the more demoded and ineffectual they become. |
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Post by Astroruss on Apr 18, 2008 11:24:58 GMT -5
Not to mention the 'Hate Bush' meme.. It's become OK to hate Bush, in some circles. His critics attack him simply because he is an influential and powerful scapegoat. They are projecting their own failures and problems onto him. It's all about transferrence and delayed gratification. My father and others like him did the same with Clinton. He was an easy and convienient scapegoat to load up all the failures. When Bush leaves office by 2009, his opposition will have to fork up the dough, and step up to the plate. Which I don't think they'll be able to do, quite frankly. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 18, 2008 16:00:23 GMT -5
Not to mention the 'Hate Bush' meme.. It's become OK to hate Bush, in some circles. His critics attack him simply because he is an influential and powerful scapegoat. They are projecting their own failures and problems onto him. It's all about transferrence and delayed gratification. My father and others like him did the same with Clinton. He was an easy and convienient scapegoat to load up all the failures. When Bush leaves office by 2009, his opposition will have to fork up the dough, and step up to the plate. Which I don't think they'll be able to do, quite frankly. well, by the time he leaves, i don't think there'll be much to work with. |
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Post by slu2008 on Apr 18, 2008 18:16:36 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]"fit for print". [/glow]Now there's no chance a great man, in a wheelchair, would get elected in the White House. Not to mention the 'Hate Bush' meme.. It's become OK to hate Bush, in some circles. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaEyEWm6ke4Bill Maher is a slander kinda guy, yet very popular. Any thoughts? And who decides what is "Fit for Print??" I believe this is idea with Stalin and Castro, as well... America is a "Free" country. The press has the freedom to print whatever they want. (Like tabloids saying Elvis is alive, or farmers probed by aliens) If they are not factual, they will be discredited, however. And this day and age, false facts can be quickly pointed out. (Like Hillary's Balkan war stories)For example, Fox news routinely slants their news in order to appease the conservatives. But I'm "free" not to believe a word they say... It's ok to hate Bush, "in some circles???" I don't know if you noticed, but those circles are pretty huge right now. In fact, his ratings pretty much sum up the fact that he, is well, disliked in a polite term... |
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Post by Naptaq on Apr 19, 2008 4:18:47 GMT -5
I predict that the next president will also become a favorite person to hate, in some (major) cirles. The media in America was much more respecteful then it is today, and it had nothing to do with censorship, just responsible editors and writers. Here's a comedy speech by Dick Cheney, another favorite person to hate, in some circles. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHkOFlbvStwbeware of humorless people  |
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Post by slu2008 on Apr 19, 2008 12:24:32 GMT -5
"comedy speech by Dick Cheney"
Yea, that guy is hilarious!!! A regular "Jerry Seinfield," that guy is!!!
Like when he shot his friend in the face! Priceless! I'm sure it didn't even hurt, and it probably had some wacky side-effect (Boom!, Kerpang!, POOF!,), just like on a Looney Tunes episode!
Wackety, shmackety, Doo!!!!
Idi Amin was a pretty funny guy as well. Well, except to all those people tortured and murdered. I guess they didn't "get it."
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Post by gSteve on Apr 19, 2008 13:09:42 GMT -5
I think Bill O'Reilly is a complete moron, theres not many people I dislike more and I don't know how he can claim to be fair and balanced. I think its a good thing to hate bush, the quicker hes out of office the better. I think this page sums bill o'reilly up www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Apr 19, 2008 13:47:51 GMT -5
you don't like vaginas?
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And as trivial as that sounds, I think it does have an affect on our standing in the world, however slight.
