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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 13, 2008 17:21:48 GMT -5
does white privilege still exist in our society? i ran across this vid by a social equality activist that i thought was really interesting. if you want to skip the intro, he gets up and actually starts speaking at 04:00.
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gaia
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Post by gaia on Sept 13, 2008 18:17:58 GMT -5
Maybe it's different in the USA than it is here, I don't know. But I think he's talking absolute nonsense, and he's just stirring up shit for the sake of it. Maybe i'm only saying that because i'm white though.  The thing he's saying about not being colourblind is really confusing to me. What exactly does he want us to do, then? It seems you can't do anything right any more in this politically correct world. Whatever stance you choose, you will offend someone. *Didn't watch every bit of this video, by the way. Not going to waste my time. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 14, 2008 13:00:16 GMT -5
Maybe it's different in the USA than it is here, I don't know. But I think he's talking absolute nonsense, and he's just stirring up shit for the sake of it. Maybe i'm only saying that because i'm white though. The thing he's saying about not being colourblind is really confusing to me. What exactly does he want us to do, then? It seems you can't do anything right any more in this politically correct world. Whatever stance you choose, you will offend someone. *Didn't watch every bit of this video, by the way. Not going to waste my time. i'm not sure it's true in every single corner of the world, but what he's saying certainly does seem to be true here. this is the first thing of his that i've watched, so i don't really know if he has a 'plan' for how to correct the problem in mind yet. he seems to be saying that the problem exists in the way white people think about people of color. non-whites are projected to outnumber whites in the US by 2042, so at some point one would think this should be better reflected in the leadership. it's kinda obvious at this point that white men are still calling the shots in our society. we've never had a female leader although we're over half female too. i wonder if non-white leaders would be more open to females filling leadership roles than white leaders are. sometimes it seems to me that sexism is even more pervasive than racism is. |
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Post by audioalone on Sept 15, 2008 14:13:19 GMT -5
Maybe it's different in the USA than it is here, I don't know. But I think he's talking absolute nonsense, and he's just stirring up shit for the sake of it. Maybe i'm only saying that because i'm white though. The thing he's saying about not being colourblind is really confusing to me. What exactly does he want us to do, then? It seems you can't do anything right any more in this politically correct world. Whatever stance you choose, you will offend someone. I agree. It may be one of the hallmarks of the 21st century. And it weakens nations on the world scene (political correctness). *Didn't watch every bit of this video, by the way. Not going to waste my time. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 15, 2008 17:54:59 GMT -5
i'm not really talking about political correctness, although i don't really see that as 'weakening nations'. i'm talking about assumptions people make, often incorrectly, about other people based solely on race. for example, when people make racist statements in my presence, they are obviously assuming i'm going to go along with it cuz i'm white. but they may be wrong about that. i don't like it when other white people think of me as a 'race traitor' because i don't go along with bashing people of other races simply because they have a different skin color. i just don't think it's fair to individuals to do that. i believe each individual should be judged on their own merits. on the other hand, every single time a person of color has something bad happen to them, i don't automatically assume racism is the cause either.
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gaia
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Post by gaia on Sept 15, 2008 18:15:31 GMT -5
i'm not really talking about political correctness, although i don't really see that as 'weakening nations'. i'm talking about assumptions people make, often incorrectly, about other people based solely on race. for example, when people make racist statements in my presence, they are obviously assuming i'm going to go along with it cuz i'm white. but they may be wrong about that. i don't like it when other white people think of me as a 'race traitor' because i don't go along with bashing people of other races simply because they have a different skin color. i just don't think it's fair to individuals to do that. i believe each individual should be judged on their own merits. on the other hand, every single time a person of color has something bad happen to them, i don't automatically assume racism is the cause either. Oh but you're one of those people who say "let's all get along and see past race" that the guy in this video is talking about. You're one of the people he's saying is part of the problem. You're meant to notice race, not pretend it doesn't matter! I don't actually think that, Sweet Pea. But that seems to be the point being made in the video. And so i'm saying that I don't understand how we are supposed to behave any more. If you want my honest opinion, I think that (in England) white people are actually making a lot sacrifices, and so white privilege no longer exists. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 15, 2008 21:10:48 GMT -5
i'm not really talking about political correctness, although i don't really see that as 'weakening nations'. i'm talking about assumptions people make, often incorrectly, about other people based solely on race. for example, when people make racist statements in my presence, they are obviously assuming i'm going to go along with it cuz i'm white. but they may be wrong about that. i don't like it when other white people think of me as a 'race traitor' because i don't go along with bashing people of other races simply because they have a different skin color. i just don't think it's fair to individuals to do that. i believe each individual should be judged on their own merits. on the other hand, every single time a person of color has something bad happen to them, i don't automatically assume racism is the cause either. Oh but you're one of those people who say "let's all get along and see past race" that the guy in this video is talking about. You're one of the people he's saying is part of the problem. You're meant to notice race, not pretend it doesn't matter! I don't actually think that, Sweet Pea. But that seems to be the point being made in the video. And so i'm saying that I don't understand how we are supposed to behave any more. If you want my honest opinion, I think that (in England) white people are actually making a lot sacrifices, and so white privilege no longer exists. i promise i won't jump to conclusions about what you think, anna. i'm just discussing an issue that has come up in my life off and on, and seeing this guy's video just sparked some thinking on the subject. i was curious what other people's thoughts were. this is by no means an attack on anyone at SU. my take on what he was saying in the video was that we do have to acknowledge that there isn't a level playing field in order to be fair. but if i even try do that (irl), i'm often given the old 'you're a race traitor' treatment by other white people, which sucks of course. believe me, i probably couldn't talk to anyone i know irl about this. but here we're all anonymous and can more freely express our thoughts. what i meant by saying that i prefer to judge individuals one on one, is that i can't see that stereotypes are very useful in evaluating people. i have to know a person and observe them for awhile to be able to make any kind of a judgement on what kind of person they are. does that make sense? i guess i've always been subjected to stereotyping myself, and i know how damaging it can be. and that's why i don't want to do that to anybody else. |
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gaia
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Post by gaia on Sept 16, 2008 10:55:49 GMT -5
my take on what he was saying in the video was that we do have to acknowledge that there isn't a level playing field in order to be fair For the record, I don't think there is a level playing field. But in my opinion, the more you think about the inequalities, the more resentment builds up (by all races). So, the approach that "we should all just see past race and get along" seems to me to be the best option. You know, wipe the slate clean and stop programming people to focus on the so called "white privilege". And so, I don't understand why the man talking is this video is so against that approach. Maybe it's just not realistic? but if i even try do that (irl), i'm often given the old 'you're a race traitor' treatment by other white people, which sucks of course Ok, you and I have had very different experiences. I've never witnessed any white person saying that to another. Maybe it's the difference between our generations, or maybe as i've said it could be the difference between the UK and the USA. Who knows?  what i meant by saying that i prefer to judge individuals one on one, is that i can't see that stereotypes are very useful in evaluating people. i have to know a person and observe them for awhile to be able to make any kind of a judgement on what kind of person they are. does that make sense? It makes perfect sense and that's how I try to be too. It's how everyone should try to be. Stereotyping doesn't do anyone any favours. The person being stereotyped feels like crap, and also the person doing the stereotyping could actually be missing out on getting to know a really cool person. |
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Post by Astroruss on Sept 23, 2008 16:33:40 GMT -5
Speeches like that are counterproductive, no matter what the activist may want to do or sponsor. Overcoming dominance or supremacy of a certain ethnic group in a society is done gradually, over many years at a time. It cannot be done overnight, because people cannot change their thoughts or beliefs overnight. Simply talking about racial issues stirs up the froth and makes them boil over. Racism is overcome gradually through productive social interaction and cooperation. White Americans still are the more influential because they work from a type of advantage, often economic. White kids generally do better at school and careers than others because there is less pressure on them to produce hard work and more 'smart' work. However, every year the minority kids get better and better.  I see black and hispanic doctors, lawyers, nurses, techs, engineers, and politicians etc everywhere nowadays. There are fewer of them than whites, true, but that's because there are fewer of them in society to begin with. Education and beneficial interaction are the keys to overcoming any prejudice.  Everyday at my job, I service largely black and hispanic men and some women. I have trained many hispanic employees on how to do simple tasks in the business because I can communicate in Spanish to a degree. All these people, both black and hispanic, respect me because I know my stuff and am willing to help them. How do I help them? I completely ignore what they look like and treat them all the same, and subject them to the same rules we all follow in the company. I overcome racial prejudice and ignorance by not thinking about it at all. It's not an issue for me, and I don't make it one. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 23, 2008 19:03:56 GMT -5
Speeches like that are counterproductive, no matter what the activist may want to do or sponsor. Overcoming dominance or supremacy of a certain ethnic group in a society is done gradually, over many years at a time. It cannot be done overnight, because people cannot change their thoughts or beliefs overnight. Simply talking about racial issues stirs up the froth and makes them boil over. Racism is overcome gradually through productive social interaction and cooperation. White Americans still are the more influential because they work from a type of advantage, often economic. White kids generally do better at school and careers than others because there is less pressure on them to produce hard work and more 'smart' work. However, every year the minority kids get better and better. I see black and hispanic doctors, lawyers, nurses, techs, engineers, and politicians etc everywhere nowadays. There are fewer of them than whites, true, but that's because there are fewer of them in society to begin with. Education and beneficial interaction are the keys to overcoming any prejudice. Everyday at my job, I service largely black and hispanic men and some women. I have trained many hispanic employees on how to do simple tasks in the business because I can communicate in Spanish to a degree. All these people, both black and hispanic, respect me because I know my stuff and am willing to help them. How do I help them? I completely ignore what they look like and treat them all the same, and subject them to the same rules we all follow in the company. I overcome racial prejudice and ignorance by not thinking about it at all. It's not an issue for me, and I don't make it one. hmmm...maybe i shouldn't have suggested people skip the intro. well, anyways...nothin personal, but i'd be alot more convinced if i was hearing all this from someone who didn't have white skin, lol. i agree that the change will be gradual because people do not adjust well to rapid change...white people in particular, in this case. i'm not sure i agree that simply talking about race issues stirs things up and makes them boil. i would think not feeling able to talk about them might though. generally speaking, people like to be heard. feeling that you're not heard can be extremely frustrating. i feel that white people are the ones who get stirred up into a froth when you talk about racial issues. i have rarely known anyone who was white that i could talk to about these things irl without upsetting them, and often having them decide they hate my guts and would very much like to eradicate me, lol. i also wanted to point out that there's a school of thought that white people have an advantage in the educational system not only for monetary reasons, but also because of favoritism as well as programs, books and language that are culturally biased towards white people. i definitely don't think that white folks dominate the professional jobs simply because there's more of them. can't agree there. as a female i'm fully aware of all the roadblocks hindering me growing up in that regard. i have no doubt they're there for race as well as sex. i found it pretty compelling when he pointed out that for all the complaining whites have done about reverse discrimination and how other races have an advantage now, no one rushes to change their skin color or tries to 'pass' as non-white. none...zilch...zippedy do dah. disclaimer: nothing in this thread should be interpreted as meaning that i hate white people or men. thank you. |
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Post by skyhint on Sept 23, 2008 21:41:39 GMT -5
It seems odd to me that you would find white people like that Sweet Pea. I would never want to talk about race in a public place because someone might just happen to be walking by who would be upset by what you say. It is a really sensitive subject for a lot of people. Some people get uncomfortable when you even mention skin tone.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Sept 23, 2008 22:59:16 GMT -5
It seems odd to me that you would find white people like that Sweet Pea. I would never want to talk about race in a public place because someone might just happen to be walking by who would be upset by what you say. It is a really sensitive subject for a lot of people. Some people get uncomfortable when you even mention skin tone. yes, i know. very uncomfortable. and maybe...just maybe... that's because we're not supposed to talk about it...shhhhhhhhh. we can talk endlessly about hair color, eye color...no problem. but bring up the topic of skin color in any way shape or form, and people get uncomfortable. so are you saying that you have found it comfortable to talk to white people about racial issues when you're alone in a private place? you never get a negative reaction? or has it just never been discussed under any circumstances? i've found that white people now often communicate in code about what race or color a person is (which is kinda weird). they're not very direct at all unless they're out and out flaming bigots. i've also known interracial couples who wouldn't talk about race and it ended up destroying their relationships. having alot of unexpressed subtext in a relationship about anything is not a good thing. i think it's hard to really know a person if you're so busy ignoring the elephant in the room that you can't find out who they are, what their experience has been, and what makes them tick. and i think for an interracial (or multi-colored or what- have-you) relationship to work, you have to be able to talk about this and share experiences. the odds are against any relationship making it, and adding the crap interracial couples confront in daily life on top of it means you'd better have a strong relationship. i met someone recently who has brown skin, and he told me that some of his siblings are white. i'd like to know how he feels about that, and what his experience has been. i don't feel i'll ever really know who he is unless i know that as well as all the rest of the things about him. of course, i tend to delve pretty deeply into people's psyche, and some people just aren't into that, lol. but i am definitely leaning towards thinking this guy is right about the necessity of being able to talk amongst ourselves about this subject. i think we have to openly acknowledge everything that's going on, or we're just enabling the status quo to continue. |
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gaia
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Post by gaia on Sept 24, 2008 17:08:13 GMT -5
i found it pretty compelling when he pointed out that for all the complaining whites have done about reverse discrimination and how other races have an advantage now, no one rushes to change their skin color or tries to 'pass' as non-white. none...zilch...zippedy do dah. The fake tan industry is sooo unsuccessful. No white person ever buys 'non-white' music. And i've never heard a white people using slang that's 'non-white'. Seriously though, white people don't go around trying to 'pass' as 'non-white' because if they tried it, they'd probably get their ass kicked (and rightly so). Since when did 'non white' people try to 'pass' for white people, by the way? Are they that convincing that I haven't noticed? |
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Post by Astroruss on Sept 24, 2008 18:03:28 GMT -5
i found it pretty compelling when he pointed out that for all the complaining whites have done about reverse discrimination and how other races have an advantage now, no one rushes to change their skin color or tries to 'pass' as non-white. none...zilch...zippedy do dah. The fake tan industry is sooo unsuccessful. No white person ever buys 'non-white' music. And i've never heard a white people using slang that's 'non-white'. Seriously though, white people don't go around trying to 'pass' as 'non-white' because if they tried it, they'd probably get their ass kicked (and rightly so). Since when did 'non white' people try to 'pass' for white people, by the way? Are they that convincing that I haven't noticed? There have been some mulatto individuals in American society that have pushed the envelope in the past in this manner. Frederick Douglas is the most prominent that comes to my mind right now. He was mixed white/black, but he was smarter than most people in the country at the time. Douglas was invited to have dinner with President Lincoln; this provoked a great deal of controversy, because he was mulatto. However, he reached out to people of both races because he was of both races. And he wasn't shy about trying to pass as a ordinary gentleman, hehehe. Except for the tint of his skin among very white people, Douglas could pass in a crowd towards the end of his life because he dressed well, wore hats, and spoke well. |
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Post by Astroruss on Sept 24, 2008 18:09:34 GMT -5
Speeches like that are counterproductive, no matter what the activist may want to do or sponsor. Overcoming dominance or supremacy of a certain ethnic group in a society is done gradually, over many years at a time. It cannot be done overnight, because people cannot change their thoughts or beliefs overnight. Simply talking about racial issues stirs up the froth and makes them boil over. Racism is overcome gradually through productive social interaction and cooperation. White Americans still are the more influential because they work from a type of advantage, often economic. White kids generally do better at school and careers than others because there is less pressure on them to produce hard work and more 'smart' work. However, every year the minority kids get better and better. I see black and hispanic doctors, lawyers, nurses, techs, engineers, and politicians etc everywhere nowadays. There are fewer of them than whites, true, but that's because there are fewer of them in society to begin with. Education and beneficial interaction are the keys to overcoming any prejudice. Everyday at my job, I service largely black and hispanic men and some women. I have trained many hispanic employees on how to do simple tasks in the business because I can communicate in Spanish to a degree. All these people, both black and hispanic, respect me because I know my stuff and am willing to help them. How do I help them? I completely ignore what they look like and treat them all the same, and subject them to the same rules we all follow in the company. I overcome racial prejudice and ignorance by not thinking about it at all. It's not an issue for me, and I don't make it one. hmmm...maybe i shouldn't have suggested people skip the intro. well, anyways...nothin personal, but i'd be alot more convinced if i was hearing all this from someone who didn't have white skin, lol. Well, if it makes any difference, Pea, my skin is dark enough to pass for Hispanic, hehehe. ;D But the damn blond hair on my body, hmmm, that's always gonna pose a problem. I can never pass for a hot, dark skinned Latin hottie because of it. But I did used to do a good tango, heehee. |
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Everyday at my job, I service largely black and hispanic men and some women. I have trained many hispanic employees on how to do simple tasks in the business because I can communicate in Spanish to a degree. All these people, both black and hispanic, respect me because I know my stuff and am willing to help them. How do I help them? I completely ignore what they look like and treat them all the same, and subject them to the same rules we all follow in the company. 