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Post by anothershy1 on Jun 27, 2009 13:28:16 GMT -5
It is a sad thing, but friendships rarely survive when someone "hints" they want more. It is an all or nothing gamble. If she is not interested in you romantically, you will lose her friendship. But maybe this wouldn't hurt any more than keeping it platonic and watching her walk off with someone else. That really hurts too. It is probably because of the dishonesty of the entire thing. If he didn't have feelings for her, he wouldn't have cultivated the friendship like he did. What do you mean dishonesty of what we became friends, and didn't cultivate anything a ceratin way, besides I made a friend the only way I knew which is nothing because in my life is just me so... |
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Post by arizona on Jul 1, 2009 19:47:58 GMT -5
I suspect the previous poster is one of those people who thinks all men immediately have ulterior motives for everything.
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Post by missklew on Jul 1, 2009 22:33:25 GMT -5
I suspect the previous poster is one of those people who thinks all men immediately have ulterior motives for everything. Well most of you do. Even said so in your previous post. If that girl was ugly, people wouldn't be talking to her. She would just be invisible. |
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Post by anothershy1 on Jul 2, 2009 13:44:01 GMT -5
I don't talk to people ever, and she was the one who came after me creating the friendship. This is why I hate when people apply things without knowing
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Jul 2, 2009 15:50:13 GMT -5
I suspect the previous poster is one of those people who thinks all men immediately have ulterior motives for everything. Well most of you do. Even said so in your previous post. If that girl was ugly, people wouldn't be talking to her. She would just be invisible. Well, I don't think it's really fair to call it "dishonest." Some people start out as friends and it becomes more later on. Maybe it starts as an attraction initially and once you get to know someone more, you find that your feelings can either grow or dissipate. So, I wouldn't say it's 'wrong' to hold back feelings necessarily. But, the longer you wait, the more you risk for getting more hurt later on if it doesn't work out the way you'd like. And, if a girl is ugly...it doesn't necessarily mean she'll be invisible. I had made a thread some time ago asking if people didn't want 'unattractive' friends. I recall one guy saying he had a good female friend that he didn't find attractive at all, but really liked her personality. |
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Post by Stranger on Jul 3, 2009 2:33:08 GMT -5
I can see friendships breaking apart after one revealing feelings for another for other reasons too. One person might feel it weird to hang out with someone else after a rejection; or they might start to view them with a dose of contempt as a way of preserving their own ego. It doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be that way, but I can see it happening. It's not always about a horny guy just looking to get laid.
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 10, 2009 18:53:17 GMT -5
Well, I don't think it's really fair to call it "dishonest." Some people start out as friends and it becomes more later on. Maybe it starts as an attraction initially and once you get to know someone more, you find that your feelings can either grow or dissipate. So, I wouldn't say it's 'wrong' to hold back feelings necessarily. But, the longer you wait, the more you risk for getting more hurt later on if it doesn't work out the way you'd like. And, if a girl is ugly...it doesn't necessarily mean she'll be invisible. I had made a thread some time ago asking if people didn't want 'unattractive' friends. I recall one guy saying he had a good female friend that he didn't find attractive at all, but really liked her personality. That's a sensible answer. The truth is, men are rarely friends with women whom they don't find attractive, simply because there is nothing to talk about given the disparity of interests, hobbies etc... Also, I am very surprised that a girl would be offended that someone has tried to befriend her with the idea of something more developing down the line. I mean, I've seen this written and spoken by women about a million times, that relationships should evolve from friendships. So, the question is, what's a man supposed to do? He can't ask out a girl straight out because it's too forward, and he can't become her friend first because it's deceitful. I guess there is absolutely nothing that a man can do to win a girl's heart unless she fell for him already. Am I missing something here? |
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Post by Stranger on Jul 10, 2009 23:28:25 GMT -5
That's a sensible answer. The truth is, men are rarely friends with women whom they don't find attractive, simply because there is nothing to talk about given the disparity of interests, hobbies etc... I've seen plenty of instances of that happening. Perhaps you just need to diversify your interests. Also, I am very surprised that a girl would be offended that someone has tried to befriend her with the idea of something more developing down the line. I mean, I've seen this written and spoken by women about a million times, that relationships should evolve from friendships. So, the question is, what's a man supposed to do? He can't ask out a girl straight out because it's too forward, and he can't become her friend first because it's deceitful. I guess there is absolutely nothing that a man can do to win a girl's heart unless she fell for him already. Am I missing something here? I think the point is that if you're not interested in who they are as a person, then they're not interested in a relationship with you. Some might prefer it to start from a friendship so they can make sure of that. I don't think anything's deceitful if you are genuinely interested in their friendship, but if you disappear the moment they show that they're not interested in more, then it's going to seem like you were only in it for one thing. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 11, 2009 2:42:30 GMT -5
I think the point is that if you're not interested in who they are as a person, then they're not interested in a relationship with you. Some might prefer it to start from a friendship so they can make sure of that. I don't think anything's deceitful if you are genuinely interested in their friendship, but if you disappear the moment they show that they're not interested in more, then it's going to seem like you were only in it for one thing. In my opinion, there is a difference between a romantic relationship and a friendship and I often feel attraction for women whom I want to be involved with romantically and not just as friends. It's not that I want them for sex only, far from it, but the friendship part is just part of the package and not the whole thing that I am seeking. I am pretty sure many if not most men feel the same way. Basically, from what you are saying, if you like a girl then there is no way for you to progress to a romantic relationship because whatever you do, you already have an ulterior motive. You already like her and however you try, there's no getting around the fact that you've already thought, however briefly, about being with her in a romantic way. Disappearing completely after rejection may not be the prettiest thing, but if a guy feels strongly for a girl then it may be difficult for him to interact with her in a platonic way with no hope of anything more. That's one of the worst things that can happen. I am sure you've experienced that yourself. |
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Post by Stranger on Jul 11, 2009 3:57:44 GMT -5
The truth is, men are rarely friends with women whom they don't find attractive, simply because there is nothing to talk about given the disparity of interests, hobbies etc... It's not that I want them for sex only, far from it, but the friendship part is just part of the package and not the whole thing that I am seeking. I am pretty sure many if not most men feel the same way. So... their attractiveness gives you something to talk about?  When I say "friendship" I mean you like them for reasons other than they're good looking.  Basically, from what you are saying, if you like a girl then there is no way for you to progress to a romantic relationship because whatever you do, you already have an ulterior motive. You already like her and however you try, there's no getting around the fact that you've already thought, however briefly, about being with her in a romantic way. How did you reach that conclusion from what I said? I've never interpreted it to mean you can't be attracted to someone before you befriend them; rather that you should be attracted to more than just their appearance before you make any advances. This discussion is hearsay, though, really, as you did not cite any particular sources. Disappearing completely after rejection may not be the prettiest thing, but if a guy feels strongly for a girl then it may be difficult for him to interact with her in a platonic way with no hope of anything more. That's one of the worst things that can happen. I'm not saying it isn't. But if it comes across that you no longer care, then you can hardly blame them for assuming you don't. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 11, 2009 5:27:22 GMT -5
The truth is, men are rarely friends with women whom they don't find attractive, simply because there is nothing to talk about given the disparity of interests, hobbies etc... So... their attractiveness gives you something to talk about? When you meet a girl in a social context, her appearance and social behavior are the first things you notice. I don't have a problem admitting the fact that I develop crushes on girls based on their looks. Sometimes I admire a girl from afar for months, whether at work, in class, or in some other setting, and all I know is that she has a pretty face, eyes, and smile. I really don't think that I am alone in that regard. That's just how most of us are wired. There has to be some physical attraction for things to move forward. Possibly you are one of those rare specimens who doesn't need to experience physical attraction and initiates relationships by blocking off all external senses and focusing on personality alone. (i am being a bit sarcastic here, so please forgive me) When I say "friendship" I mean you like them for reasons other than they're good looking. How did you reach that conclusion from what I said? I've never interpreted it to mean you can't be attracted to someone before you befriend them; rather that you should be attracted to more than just their appearance before you make any advances. This discussion is hearsay, though, really, as you did not cite any particular sources. All I am saying is that physical attraction is the initial trigger. I don't know about you, but I am rarely afforded the luxury of getting to know the personality of a girl that I am admiring from afar. So I really have no choice, but to take a bold step and try to get to know her with very little information. Once I take that step, I am sure that you'll call me a hypocrite, because I am trying to get to know her purely based on the fact that I've found her physically attractive. However, my point is that after initial attraction is established, we need to see if we have anything in common personality wise, and as far as interests/hobbies go, something we've touched on before, I am willing to invest time in getting to know the things she likes, and hopefully she is willing to do the same for me. But I'd be lying if I said that I initiated and maintained early interaction based on anything else than physical attraction. Disappearing completely after rejection may not be the prettiest thing, but if a guy feels strongly for a girl then it may be difficult for him to interact with her in a platonic way with no hope of anything more. That's one of the worst things that can happen. I'm not saying it isn't. But if it comes across that you no longer care, then you can hardly blame them for assuming you don't. I think it's the sort of thing where women could be a little understanding. I am sure that it's not easy for a woman to stay around a guy who rejected her and in fact that has happened a few times with me as well. For the most part, those girls tried to stay away from me and I didn't really have a problem with it. When you experience romantic disappointment, it's best to move as far away as possible from the source. Such is life. |
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Post by Stranger on Jul 13, 2009 8:52:42 GMT -5
When you meet a girl in a social context, her appearance and social behavior are the first things you notice. I don't have a problem admitting the fact that I develop crushes on girls based on their looks. Sometimes I admire a girl from afar for months, whether at work, in class, or in some other setting, and all I know is that she has a pretty face, eyes, and smile. I really don't think that I am alone in that regard. That's just how most of us are wired. There has to be some physical attraction for things to move forward. Possibly you are one of those rare specimens who doesn't need to experience physical attraction and initiates relationships by blocking off all external senses and focusing on personality alone. (i am being a bit sarcastic here, so please forgive me) All I am saying is that physical attraction is the initial trigger. I don't know about you, but I am rarely afforded the luxury of getting to know the personality of a girl that I am admiring from afar. So I really have no choice, but to take a bold step and try to get to know her with very little information. Once I take that step, I am sure that you'll call me a hypocrite, because I am trying to get to know her purely based on the fact that I've found her physically attractive. However, my point is that after initial attraction is established, we need to see if we have anything in common personality wise, and as far as interests/hobbies go, something we've touched on before, I am willing to invest time in getting to know the things she likes, and hopefully she is willing to do the same for me. But I'd be lying if I said that I initiated and maintained early interaction based on anything else than physical attraction. Your response really did nothing to resolve the contradiction I was highlighting earlier. As I have said before, I've never interpreted it to mean you can't be attracted to someone before you befriend them. Perhaps we just have different notions of "friendship" here. I take it to mean that you have an interest in their personality. You enjoy being around them. You love talking to them about stuff. You like hearing about things they do. You laugh at things together. You care about what happens to them. You go out of your way to help them out when you can. Stuff you'd do with other people you weren't attracted to romantically but liked as friends. |
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Post by fightingspirit on Jul 13, 2009 10:12:59 GMT -5
Your response really did nothing to resolve the contradiction I was highlighting earlier. As I have said before, I've never interpreted it to mean you can't be attracted to someone before you befriend them. Perhaps we just have different notions of "friendship" here. I take it to mean that you have an interest in their personality. You enjoy being around them. You love talking to them about stuff. You like hearing about things they do. You laugh at things together. You care about what happens to them. You go out of your way to help them out when you can. Stuff you'd do with other people you weren't attracted to romantically but liked as friends. There is no difference or change in the definition of friendship here at all. When You see a girl, it only takes a few seconds before You establish her as a valuable sexual partner or remain neutral so that Your relationship can become platonic. In rare instances, it could happen that someone who has not appealed to You before will suddenly become desirable or taken, but that is a rare event and should not be emphasized for the sake of distorting the norm. |
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Post by Stranger on Jul 13, 2009 15:02:07 GMT -5
Your response really did nothing to resolve the contradiction I was highlighting earlier. As I have said before, I've never interpreted it to mean you can't be attracted to someone before you befriend them. Perhaps we just have different notions of "friendship" here. I take it to mean that you have an interest in their personality. You enjoy being around them. You love talking to them about stuff. You like hearing about things they do. You laugh at things together. You care about what happens to them. You go out of your way to help them out when you can. Stuff you'd do with other people you weren't attracted to romantically but liked as friends. There is no difference or change in the definition of friendship here at all. When You see a girl, it only takes a few seconds before You establish her as a valuable sexual partner or remain neutral so that Your relationship can become platonic. In rare instances, it could happen that someone who has not appealed to You before will suddenly become desirable or taken, but that is a rare event and should not be emphasized for the sake of distorting the norm. So, let's see if I've got my facts straight: * You seek friendship as part of a romantic relationship. * You consider friendship to include all the aspects I wrote above. * It only takes a few seconds before you establish someone as a romantic partner. Is that right? If so, then you're probably not spending enough time getting to know these people first. The whole point behind what they're saying, as I understand it, is they want some friendship (as above) before anything else. That doesn't mean you can't be attracted to them first; it just means you need to let a proper friendship develop (and not just act like their friend to "please" them) and show that you're a nice, agreeable person before going any further. And that takes a lot more than "a few seconds." |
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Post by MrNice on Jul 16, 2009 16:07:23 GMT -5
yes you are missing something
you actually can ask a girl out
it is not too forward
its only too forward if she is not attracted to you
if she is attracted to you then its not too forward
friends first thing is just wrong as a strategy
it will not get you anywhere
all it takes is a little bit of conversation for her to determine whether she would accept an invitation for a date
you are completely overestimating the importance of flirting or asking a girl for a phone number or a date
again, if you make a bad impression on a girl and ask her out then its all about being too foraward or whatever but if you make a good impression she will gladly hang out with you
a date is nothing more then hanging out with a romantic touch - its not a big commitemnt from either side
why is it that you know right away that you are attracted to a girl but you need to jump through hoops and pretend to be friends for her to be attracted to you?
just put yourself in a situation where a girl is attracted to you but you don't know about it - for example you think she is beyond your reach - if she were to ask you out and you found her attractive would you tell her that she is being too forward or that you should become good friends first before considering anything romantic? or would you just go out with her?
its the same the other way around
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