I don't like American Women

[Astroruss]

It is also very possible that this thread was started by a problem troll, but I'll take it with a grain of salt. Nevertheless, this thread can easily turn into a femhating bashing one.

So just watch the overgeneralizations. We are all different, as humans with the spiritual side we are quite capable of making rational decisions apart from our genders.

[Farouche]

SupInt ---------------
Guilty, I only skimmed it for the best parts and couldn't resist coming to the defense of a fellow male . Ok, I admit his rather bitter accusation may have been unwarranted, but I can understand where it came from. I'm not trying to excuse it, but after years of rejection from the opposite sex, bitterness can be a very natural reaction. Believe me, I've been there. Shy men in particular have a difficult time in the dating world because they are expected to initiate, something women generally aren't expected to do. So in conclusion, I agree that he was wrong to make such sweeping generalizations towards American women. However, I understand how easy it is to fall into that mentality and I wouldn't be so quick to judge him. Have a nice day

I think maybe looking at FS through your personal lens, he seems pitiable and harmless because, as someone who handles his frustrations in a healthy way, it seems impossible to believe that anyone would really believe that stuff. Unfortunately, a small but significant minority actually *does* believe it. And as a woman who frequents online social sites, you're forced to realize that they mean every word, when you object and they go off about how you're just "one of them" who of course wouldn't admit what screwed up liars us ladies are, because it would ruin our plan to systematically subjugate men and deny them sex. I must emphasize that I definitely don't blame you for putting your own "surely he didn't mean..." twist on it. I think it's common for genuinely decent people to instinctually go out of their way to give offenders the benefit of the doubt.

It's not really understandable, though, for someone to bash a group of people on a public forum because members of that group won't have sex with him, and it's highly uncomfortable to encounter that kind of vitriol when you're a member of that group yourself. Women get rejected plenty, too--whether it's in the asking-out phase, as many women are doing in our lovely modern era, or after dating a guy and then getting the brush-off, etc. And it hurts as much as it does for guys. Yet some people seem to have this idea that while bitter, lonely men are tragic figures, bitter, lonely women are silly man-hating cat ladies who have only themselves to blame for being so unattractive. You know what I mean? If you've checked out FS's other posts, you will see that he jumped to ridicule a woman for posting a lame rant/inquiry about men, yet he could not understand how what he said was in any way equivalent to, and in fact more insulting than, what the female poster said.

I do think it sucks and it's totally unfair if the adults in his life taught Baby FS that men are shit and encouraged him to hate himself, but fem-peeps don't deserve to have that youthful self-loathing projecting onto them, either. Guys (and girls!) twisted by their circumstances need to deal with the resultant hang-ups privately, whether that means introspection or therapy. Reasonable people know where to draw the line between frustration, and making and defending sweeping theories on the deficiencies of the opposite sex.

Anyway, good talk. SU has been too quiet lately, lol. I might have to actually start some threads. Eeek!

[fightingspirit]

Aug 14, 2009 11:34:42 GMT -5 Farouche said:

Did you really read the entire thread, or are you just faithfully jumping to the defense of the brotherhood? Because FS blatantly accused board member me, at least, of being "exactly" the kind of woman he was talking about, without knowing anything about me except that I think he's full of it.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but they only serve to reinforce what is common. From the few posts that I read from you, I didn't get any sense that you understand what it means to be a shy guy in today's (Western) society. Yes, my posts can be perceived as being rants about women. However, I provided some concrete arguments, based on personal experiences, to back up my points. My opinion is that when it comes to relationships, men DO have a harder time than women. For men, the big thing is just finding a viable partner, while women are worried about finding the perfect one. There's a big difference between these two issues and I think it's the source of many misunderstandings.

Aug 14, 2009 11:34:42 GMT -5 Farouche said:

Whether you want to acknowledge this or not not, women on shy sites get dumped on way too often by the few (but loud) bitter angry-guys who see an easy target and pounce, knowing that at least some guys are likely to come to their defense, and that the women risk looking like "bitches" if they object. So, a little background there. It's not a problem, of course, if anybody just wants to lament that not many members of the opposite sex appreciate who they are as a quiet, thoughtful person. But the following is not cool, and is really not defensible as anything but an embarrassingly bitter rant:

American women are looking for some unwarranted glamor, fame, and social prowess, that's supposed to be cast upon them regardless of what they actually represent with themselves. It's not surprising to see US women disparaging those from East Europe since they they are perceiving them as a threat to the status quo. You see, women don't like to see men having options. Men are much more obliging as helpless slaves.

Yet FS has stated many times over that he 100% stands by exactly what this^ paragraph says. The most he would acknowledge throughout the thread is that the harshness of his words might shock and offend those not enlightened enough to see their mighty Truth. I appreciate that you're trying to be diplomatic, but I caution you against dialing down the sweeping nature of FS's unabashed generalization. It's not a "men versus women" issue, anyway; it's a "guys who bash women" versus "women who are sick of guys who bash women and think it's ok" thing, so no worries about a gender war, lol.

Why are you so bothered about the fact that I don't have a very good opinion about American women? It's not like I am disparaging all females. I stated very clearly that it's mostly a by-product of cultural conditioning and not the female gender as a whole. There are women of certain nationalities that I find much more welcoming in their approach. I don't think that's a crime or anything that I should be ashamed of. A certain level of stereotyping is necessary to weed out the undesirables. After all, that's what women and men have been doing for centuries to cut out the inadequate specimens.

Aug 14, 2009 11:34:42 GMT -5 Farouche said:

You personally seem like a reasonable guy: so if there are pretty much equal numbers of men and women who are idiots and attracted to idiots, then it makes no sense to single out "American women" as these arrogant airheads, unless the poster in question is, himself, an internet loudmouth looking to stir the pot, eh? I note that he never even tried to mitigate the sneering nature of his claims by suggesting, as you have, that American men or people in general might suffer the same deficiencies to the same extent that he claimed for the American women. In fact, he seemed to heartily approve of the notion that the perfected American male was well matched to the superior non-American females who appreciate a "decent, hard-working" guy and don't get all uppity and stuff.

There is this popular notion that all men (meaning men and women) are equal. That's true in principal, but it's worth noting a few key differences. Both genders have different kinds of 'specialties' where they seem to excel over the other. It's much the same with cultural differences. There are some ingrained traits that appear to be common. Some of them may be pre-programmed at DNA level while others conditioned through upbringing, but all strongly established nonetheless. For a long time, men have been the dominant force in society, until they ended it, willingly and peacefully, a few decades ago. There is nothing wrong with it as equality is a great thing. The problem is, that it's very rare for anything of that magnitude to go over smoothly. Much as a pendulum swings, mens' rights have been continuously diminished to the point where the process is approaching ridiculous proportions. That is a major part of the problem. It struck the US first and it affected it the most, so far.

I think that American men can be very well matched to foreign women because they can converge on a similar viewpoint. American men have been raised and conditioned to treat women as their equals while women from some parts of the world have maintained enough traditional values to appreciate that. It's all about balance.

Aug 14, 2009 11:34:42 GMT -5 Farouche said:

For the record, sure it's true that plenty of men and women have an inflated sense of self or aren't particularly intellectual. The dating pools are sufficiently big, however, that most people will be able to find an attractive peer with enough exposure, whether they're a noisy beer-swillin' frat boy with a beer-swillin' gal, a geek with another geek, or just two nearby points on the IQ bell curve finding each other and gettin' it on. Finding the right partner is rarely easy, and ranting about it is understandable and totally fine, 'slong as you're not being needlessly insulting and you don't really believe and insist that "women/men are shit" or whatever. On the other hand, asserting that the rant is a direct channeling of The Ultimate Truth and that the "poor, innocent women out there" are just pissed off that Political Correctness won't save them, this time, from being outed as the narcissistic harridans they are: not fine. If that seems like a small distinction to you, consider that it can be a big distinction for the targets.

It's not about intellect or lack thereof. It's more about indoctrination into a certain patten of thought. What if it's true that finding viable mates is easier for women? Not the perfect men, but acceptable ones nonetheless. This is one of the rather deeply ingrained inequalities between genders. Women can find partners very easily. Men (at least the majority) cannot. Men are faced with great difficulty when trying to engage with American women on a personal level. They face many rejections and possibly a never ending courtship coupled with wild spending if they hope to achieve anything. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Aug 14, 2009 11:34:42 GMT -5 Farouche said:

[And I hope to god reviving this thread doesn't bring Prince Charming winging back to these boards. ;D Although... I've got a post saved for the other thread that I thought it was too late to put up by the time I got around to doing it... so I guess that's ok. ;D]

I hope that I didn't disappoint Your Highness.

[gaia]

Aug 23, 2009 3:40:43 GMT -5 fightingspirit said:

What if it's true that finding viable mates is easier for women? Not the perfect men, but acceptable ones nonetheless. This is one of the rather deeply ingrained inequalities between genders. Women can find partners very easily. Men (at least the majority) cannot. Men are faced with great difficulty when trying to engage with American women on a personal level. They face many rejections and possibly a never ending courtship coupled with wild spending if they hope to achieve anything. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

This is one thing that pisses me off a great deal about the male thinking.
Women can find mates easier than men indeed... mate being the operative word. Yes, a woman can probably find a partner to have sex with much easier than a man would. Some guys will sleep with a woman quite indiscriminately.
But an honest long-term relationship? No. Men are much harder to please. Women tend to really struggle to find a guy that's willing to commit long-term.
And that's really significant, because women will probably prefer a serious relationship to a one night stand.

(I've made lots of generalisations here, so I apologise for that now. This is just how I perceive things to typically be).

[1one1]

I actually find that to be true.

[madiocre]

yeah thats quite true(speaking generally off course) I think its a societal programming thing though .
Men open up to women more easily short term but often go no further. women are harder to crack initaially but once they do will go longer term.