how can i meet a woman

[annaa]

richardcunningham said:

skyhint said:

Lord! How cruel and most of all how incorrect. Why the F@!% do you care if Isdima learns how to get a real girl friend or not? You've clearly expressed your dislike for him. And don't tell me its to protect all the innoscent women he may encounter. Since we all know that fast seduction doesnt work, the girls will not waste too much time on him. And if the men try it: they started out single and they ended up single. No loss, no gain. So you're really just trying to win the arguement. Try to be more self aware. Im out.

I think she's expressed her dislike for nearly everybody by now.

She likes to fight.
That's why she's here and why most of her posts are arguments or attempts to start one.

I don't think so. She just likes to stand up for herself, and i'm with her on that.

[Sweet Pea]

annaa said:

richardcunningham said:

I think she's expressed her dislike for nearly everybody by now.

She likes to fight.
That's why she's here and why most of her posts are arguments or attempts to start one.

I don't think so. She just likes to stand up for herself, and i'm with her on that.

knowing richie, that was a compliment.

[lennythegiant]

annaa said:

richardcunningham said:

I think she's expressed her dislike for nearly everybody by now.

She likes to fight.
That's why she's here and why most of her posts are arguments or attempts to start one.

I don't think so. She just likes to stand up for herself, and i'm with her on that.

I've come close to an argument with her before, and IMO she kept it pretty civil, especially compared to what would have happened had that debate occurred somewhere else in Internet Land with other people. The great thing about this board is that most of the time people approach every topic with a sense of maturity and tend to think things through more.

I think the important thing to remember in all of this is that at the end of the day, we're just all trying to make our way through this crazy world, and while we may not always see eye to eye, it's important to keep in mind that people typically aren't that different in what their goals are regardless on what stance on things are.

But I would like to hear a little more detail on how this pick up stuff is supposed to be helpful.

[skyhint]

phoenixferret said:

skyhint said:

Lord! How cruel and most of all how incorrect. Why the F@!% do you care if Isdima learns how to get a real girl friend or not? You've clearly expressed your dislike for him. And don't tell me its to protect all the innoscent women he may encounter. Since we all know that fast seduction doesnt work, the girls will not waste too much time on him. And if the men try it: they started out single and they ended up single. No loss, no gain. So you're really just trying to win the arguement. Try to be more self aware. Im out.

Lol, you have a lot to learn if you think arguing is all about "winning." Do you think people write books on controversial subjects to "win?" Or is it just possible that others' mentality isn't quite as petty as you project onto them?

And sure, I was harsh. I have no sympathy for people who make snide commentary about others' effort just because they have nothing of their own to contribute.

Honey, you have a lot to learn about debating. I don't mind that this topic has so many posts it's just that, even though I agree with your POV I don't agree with the way you present your ideas, and the techniques you use to make your opponent look bad. I don't make comments on your efforts, I make comment on your abilities. You really do come off as someone looking for trouble, and not an exchange of ideas.
That's simply the impression you give me. Not at all meant to be mean spirited. Just completely honest. Sometimes you can learn from others.

[phoenixferret]

skyhint said:

phoenixferret said:

Lol, you have a lot to learn if you think arguing is all about "winning." Do you think people write books on controversial subjects to "win?" Or is it just possible that others' mentality isn't quite as petty as you project onto them?

And sure, I was harsh. I have no sympathy for people who make snide commentary about others' effort just because they have nothing of their own to contribute.

Honey, you have a lot to learn about debating. I don't mind that this topic has so many posts it's just that, even though I agree with your POV I don't agree with the way you present your ideas, and the techniques you use to make your opponent look bad. I don't make comments on your efforts, I make comment on your abilities. You really do come off as someone looking for trouble, and not an exchange of ideas.
That's simply the impression you give me. Not at all meant to be mean spirited. Just completely honest. Sometimes you can learn from others.

What a surprise, she's back! Hmm, miss Skyhint, just can't stand not to have the last word, can you? That's why people like you are so funny. As soon as you have a vested interest, you just can't help responding. But this is different, right? When it's something you give a damn about, you're suddenly a noble creature standing up for goodness and right and apple pie. And of course, anything insulting that you say is well warranted, because you're crusading for honesty and the exchange of ideas.

Sweetie pie, darling, I'm afraid a person whose idea of a proper response to dissenting opinion is "As for the rest of you, HURL!!!!" just doesn't get a lot of credibility with me when they complain about other people's debating style. You've gone and outright insulted me in the same breath that you puff yourself up about your commitment to "honesty" and tut tut about poor presentation and underhanded techniques to make opponents look bad, lol. You see how that wasn't very effective? Think about it.

Now, if you really want to prove you're the bigger person, the mature goddess who doesn't need to be right, you won't respond again. But I suspect the urge will be almost overwhelming. And if you feel that urge, maybe take a minute to think about why that is, and perhaps even you will manage to learn something!

Now for anyone who's actually interested...

naptaq said:

phoenixferret said:

Lol, you have a lot to learn if you think arguing is all about "winning."

To me it seems to be about winning the argument.

I discovered that I'm right about 20% of the time lol

I don't know how often I'm "right" in general. I've never argued to be "right." Most of the time, the bottom-line reason I argue is to correct misunderstandings that make my "side" look foolish, and to prove that there is a valid response to the points raised. Many times in the course of an argument, the line between sides gets blurred as everyone huddles closer to the centrist view in order to make a smaller target (if you get what I mean), or the two sides agree on something, which often effectively ends the argument. And for a while afterward I'll often think I was wrong after all, lol. I usually find my feet again a little later on and decide I did have a point that I should have explained better; but I've been wrong in the past, and I've admitted as much on SU.

On top of that, I've read that arguing is the best way to figure out what you believe, and I have always felt this was true. I often don't really understand why I believe something--let alone why anyone else should bother believing--until I'm forced to explain it.

Another definite value in arguing is for the "audience." And I don't mean that in the sense of, "look at me argue!" lol. I just recently joined a message board that's basically devoted to debate about certain topics. A lot of the talk has to do with engineering, architecture, the intricacies of different scientific theories... stuff that's over my head, unfortunately, but which I can sometimes tenuously grasp when it's laid out in simple terms. I was reading a debate about evolution recently, for instance, in which I was pretty certain about what I believed (evolution = the most plausible explanation out there, for anyone unaware); but every now and then the other side would say something that I simply didn't have the knowledge or experience to refute, and I'd sort of hold my breath for the next post to find out whether it was a good point or not. On SU, I suspect a lot of our lurkers are young shy men who aren't really sure what to make of women... you see what I'm getting at.

And the third value to arguing is that yes, oftentimes you can change the opponent's outlook--not like a sudden epiphany, but... When you argue, the other side is going through the same process of examining their convictions, and sometimes one side or the other will realize that, when they really think about it, they don't believe what they believe in the way they thought they did. For instance, if someone has been saying that all X are Y, and the other person says, no, some X are Z, the first person may change and say, "well, most X are Y," or "many X are Y," or even "some X are Y." If the argument was about whether or not all X are Y, then the argument is basically over. One side is technically "right" and the other "wrong," but it's not like the winner gets a parade and the keys to the city. The "right" side's prize is that they can rest their case in peace, and the "wrong" side has gained valuable knowledge for next time.

And it's funny, because I've spent so much time now arguing about arguing, I'm going to have to put off the actual argument for a little longer. I have to actually go write stuff for a grade, lol.

lennythegiant said:

I think the important thing to remember in all of this is that at the end of the day, we're just all trying to make our way through this crazy world, and while we may not always see eye to eye, it's important to keep in mind that people typically aren't that different in what their goals are regardless on what stance on things are.

Yep, all true. Well said.

But I would like to hear a little more detail on how this pick up stuff is supposed to be helpful.

And that's why I argue!! ;D

Seriously though, I hope that even if you decide to give pick-up stuff a look, you'll at least keep in mind what the women here have said. From what's been written, I think Airburst seemed like one fella who's tasted of Seduction and come back with what I personally see as some balanced insights, so maybe he'll be willing step back into the limelight for a spell.

[Naptaq]

First of, I'll say that I've been in many heated arguments, here and in real life, that I have a small regret about, because they accomplished nothing. The fact that I, or they, were right didn't matter.

I can't argue myself to peace.. Or understanding for that matter. But that's just me, I'm very stubborn.

As the late Dale Carnegie used to say: "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still"

I think, there's a difference between standing up for what you believe in, and trying to convince the other person that he's wrong. But hey that's the political news of any given day of the year! lol

[lennythegiant]

Yeah, I'm genuinely curious about pick up artist stuff. Not enough to actually invest money, but I'm willing to hear it all out anyway. Because after 22 years I still don't know shit about women, so I'm willing to hear different viewpoints (assuming they aren't blatantly misogynistic, because I love women as a whole as fellow human beings, and that's one of my stances on something that won't be shaken, although there are a few I can't stand...but anyway...)

[skyhint]

Was I just dared to post?

[carboncopy]

lennythegiant said:

Yeah, I'm genuinely curious about pick up artist stuff. Not enough to actually invest money, but I'm willing to hear it all out anyway. Because after 22 years I still don't know shit about women, so I'm willing to hear different viewpoints (assuming they aren't blatantly misogynistic, because I love women as a whole as fellow human beings, and that's one of my stances on something that won't be shaken, although there are a few I can't stand...but anyway...)

I am not a fast-seduction expert and not a fan either, but it's existence and popularity does serve to illustrate some of the points that I am making.

For one thing, being honest with women doesn't work for many men. It appears to work best for men who are supremely confident, agressive and dominant. Thus the premise of fast seduction is, at least as I understand it, for guys to assume those characteristics that are deemed most successful - to fake them if you will. A slimy concept no doubt, but it definitely caught on fire. Many men swear by it and there are valuable suggestions in there, as I gathered from occasional lurking on fast seduction forums, but it all gets drowned in extreme shallowness.

One aspect in which I agree with fast seduction guys is that if someone has been doing the same exact things for a long time, and they never (or almost never) worked, then it's a good time for a change of strategy. I just don't feel comfortable with the substitute they are proposing and I wouldn't want to get women THAT way. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get more desperate.

Honestly though, I am not sure why you're trying to get information about it here. It's all out in the open and Google is your god.

[lennythegiant]

skyhint said:

Was I just dared to post?

I double dare you...and you know what that leaves (I decided to be nicer than the kids in A Christmas Story) ;D

carboncopy said:

lennythegiant said:

Yeah, I'm genuinely curious about pick up artist stuff. Not enough to actually invest money, but I'm willing to hear it all out anyway. Because after 22 years I still don't know shit about women, so I'm willing to hear different viewpoints (assuming they aren't blatantly misogynistic, because I love women as a whole as fellow human beings, and that's one of my stances on something that won't be shaken, although there are a few I can't stand...but anyway...)

I am not a fast-seduction expert and not a fan either, but it's existence and popularity does serve to illustrate some of the points that I am making.

For one thing, being honest with women doesn't work for many men. It appears to work best for men who are supremely confident, agressive and dominant. Thus the premise of fast seduction is, at least as I understand it, for guys to assume those characteristics that are deemed most successful - to fake them if you will. A slimy concept no doubt, but it definitely caught on fire. Many men swear by it and there are valuable suggestions in there, as I gathered from occasional lurking on fast seduction forums, but it all gets drowned in extreme shallowness.

One aspect in which I agree with fast seduction guys is that if someone has been doing the same exact things for a long time, and they never (or almost never) worked, then it's a good time for a change of strategy. I just don't feel comfortable with the substitute they are proposing and I wouldn't want to get women THAT way. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get more desperate.

Honestly though, I am not sure why you're trying to get information about it here. It's all out in the open and Google is your god.

A) I always figured a good strategy would be to work on myself until I can be proud and confident about being honest about myself. I've already worked up the confidence to be able to confess to female friends to being a comic book geek, and I feel that if I can be confident about admitting that, and I can demonstrate that it's not the only thing that defines me, then that has to be a step up from where I was at in high school confidence wise. It's just at this point, without a job it's harder to demonstrate other things that define me.

B) IMO it doesn't necessarily require an overall change in strategy, it may require a little self reflection and possible self-improvement. This may sound harsh, and I'm saying it because it's something I eventually did and still have to do, is take a good look at myself and realize that the common denominator in all of my social attempts was me. In my case, it was me and my lack of confidence which was made obvious by me not really taking care of myself. I think a lot of guys could improve their dating scene if they kind of looked at themselves for a minute.

C) If I try to look up one thing on Google it will lead to another, and then I'll look at the clock and realize how much time I just blew distracting myself. The Internet really made college tougher for me because I'm easily distracted by the Internet.

[phoenixferret]

skyhint said:

Was I just dared to post?

That is what you got out of this? Then you've learned nothing. We're all through, here.

[skyhint]

phoenixferret said:

skyhint said:

Was I just dared to post?

That is what you got out of this? Then you've learned nothing. We're all through, here.

I feel like I was trying to explain myself and I was getting nothing but insults hurled my way. Those are my feelings. I dont appreciate being spoken to that way.
I learned that you feel like I am attacking you, and that I was unaware that my comments could be interpretted as something other than constructive and I inadvertanly started a catfight. Sorry. I shouldnt have gotten into it.

[phoenixferret]

skyhint said:

phoenixferret said:

That is what you got out of this? Then you've learned nothing. We're all through, here.

I feel like I was trying to explain myself and I was getting nothing but insults hurled my way. Those are my feelings. I dont appreciate being spoken to that way.
I learned that you feel like I am attacking you, and that I was unaware that my comments could be interpretted as something other than constructive and I inadvertanly started a catfight. Sorry. I shouldnt have gotten into it.

You just have to have the last word, don't you?

Darling, sometimes the truth hurts. I'm sorry if that's hard for you to accept when it comes to your own ego.

[skyhint]

phoenixferret said:

skyhint said:

I feel like I was trying to explain myself and I was getting nothing but insults hurled my way. Those are my feelings. I dont appreciate being spoken to that way.
I learned that you feel like I am attacking you, and that I was unaware that my comments could be interpretted as something other than constructive and I inadvertanly started a catfight. Sorry. I shouldnt have gotten into it.

You just have to have the last word, don't you?

Darling, sometimes the truth hurts. I'm sorry if that's hard for you to accept when it comes to your own ego.

Thats funny and somewhat true. Especially now that I replied.

[Richard Cunningham]

phoenixferret said:

skyhint said:

I feel like I was trying to explain myself and I was getting nothing but insults hurled my way. Those are my feelings. I dont appreciate being spoken to that way.
I learned that you feel like I am attacking you, and that I was unaware that my comments could be interpretted as something other than constructive and I inadvertanly started a catfight. Sorry. I shouldnt have gotten into it.

You just have to have the last word, don't you?

Darling, sometimes the truth hurts. I'm sorry if that's hard for you to accept when it comes to your own ego.

Please stop.
All I've seen here is nice civil replies from Skyhint followed by nasty, insulting responses from you.
What's the deal here?

I think I must've missed something?

It's making baby Jesus cry, and when baby Jesus is sad, he gets poopie.