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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 7, 2005 15:06:44 GMT -5
I don't ever recall choosing my sexuality. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. I guess if you believe in God, the soul, free will etc then having something like your sexuality, which is such a fundamental aspect of who we are governed by biology just doesn't fit. Like refusing to believe the Earth goes round the Sun and not vice versa. Although admittedly astronomy is alot easier to prove. How can homosexuality be a sin if it isn't a decision we make. If it was something completely out of a persons control. It would make as much sense as saying being English is a sin. Just don't tell the Scots it isn't he he. The way I had it explained to me by a minister is that being gay isn't a sin, it's acting on it that is. That's where the free will fits in. Now it's my turn to ask if I can enquire about your attitudes to homosexuality? It's none of my business but I would like to know where you are coming from. Just curiosity. Also does it matter to you whether homosexuality is a choice or not? As I said, I don't belive it's actually a choice. I honestly don't really care. If being gay (choice or not) makes you happy, sure, go for it. Just don't go shoving it in my face.
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Post by Samantha on Jun 7, 2005 15:35:07 GMT -5
As I said, I don't belive it's actually a choice. I honestly don't really care. If being gay (choice or not) makes you happy, sure, go for it. Just don't go shoving it in my face. What does shoving your face in it mean? If you don't mind me asking?
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Post by Richard Cunningham on Jun 7, 2005 15:46:24 GMT -5
As I said, I don't belive it's actually a choice. I honestly don't really care. If being gay (choice or not) makes you happy, sure, go for it. Just don't go shoving it in my face. What does shoving your face in it mean? If you don't mind me asking? It means they drop their pants and shoves something in his face?
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Post by wagnerr on Jun 7, 2005 16:18:43 GMT -5
It means they drop their pants and shoves something in his face? I know some gay people that would probably do this. Interesting, but i don't think this reasoning would work with most people nowadays. I still tend to think of homosexuality as a chosen way of life for many people, especially those that switch their needs all the time. I suspect that for many, being gay is simply an expression of self-freedom. But for some people, homosexuality is not chosen, i'll agree with you there. Humans are not built to be homosexual, so this is why i consider homosexuality to more of a mental illness or something.
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Post by zaab on Jun 7, 2005 16:26:38 GMT -5
It means they drop their pants and shoves something in his face? I know some gay people that would probably do this. Interesting, but i don't think this reasoning would work with most people nowadays. I still tend to think of homosexuality as a chosen way of life for many people, especially those that switch their needs all the time. I suspect that for many, being gay is simply an expression of self-freedom. But for some people, homosexuality is not chosen, i'll agree with you there. Humans are not built to be homosexual, so this is why i consider homosexuality to more of a mental illness or something. As much as I DON'T want to get involved in this argument, I just feel the need to point out that homosexual behavior is prevalent throughout the animal kingdom, especially among primates. In one of our closest relatives, the bonobos monkeys, it is pretty common. So whatever you want to say about homosexuality, it is pretty difficult to argue that it isn't natural unless you're trying to say that nature isn't natural.
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Post by Samantha on Jun 7, 2005 16:43:51 GMT -5
Nooo it's not an argument...I hope. Still zaab, I couldn't agree with you more.
Actually nature and what is natural is good for a whole other arg...debate in it's self lol.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jun 7, 2005 17:44:08 GMT -5
My view is that if homosexuals want to seek change they should be supported in that by the scientific community. I am against the gay lifestyle but if someone chooses to live the gay lifestyle that is their choice. In all of my work so far I have taken a neutral stance though. Is is it a choice, I dont think same sex attraction is a choice per se , but acting on it is. I think same sex attraction is abnormal but should only be considered an illness if it effects a person in social functioning or causes dysfunction. In other words it may be troublesome to one person but not to another.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jun 7, 2005 17:49:34 GMT -5
as far as is it a sin. Yes , we are all sinful creatures and any lust though biologically driven is sinful. everyone sins and thats part of being human. however while having sexual thouhts and desires are uncontrolable acting on them or even fantasising about them are controlable. im talking about both heterosexual and homosexual here.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jun 7, 2005 17:53:24 GMT -5
also there is a diference between two types of homosexual "christians" 1. views it as ok and does nothing to stop the desires and even advocates it 2. views it as sin and may struggle with homosexual thoughts and desires but is against it and trying to reduce it in his or her life.
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Post by Crashtastic on Jun 7, 2005 18:40:24 GMT -5
Sure acting on it is a choice, just like acting on heterosexual feelings is a choice, but I don't think its wrong. From what I know, there are greater consequences from holding it in and not acting on it. Some of the people who happen to homosexuals will wind up getting involved with someone of the opposite sex in order to be accepted and to be "normal", but that really isn't fair to their partner or themselves. In these situations the individuals lead a life where they are unhappy and unsatisfied with the part of them that needs intimacy. While other homosexuals choose not be involved with anyone, feel lonely and lack a sense of intimacy, of which only someone of the same sex can fulfill. I personally don't have any problem with homosexuality.
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Post by Paulinus on Jun 7, 2005 19:04:26 GMT -5
I also dont have any problem with homosexuality.
If any scientific research should go into changing sexual orientation, it should be directed at those who are sexually attracted to children, which can never be acceptable.
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Post by Crashtastic on Jun 7, 2005 19:18:00 GMT -5
Absolutely. I feel that anything that creates victims in the process is wrong.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Jun 8, 2005 8:24:12 GMT -5
they used to castrate rapists in the old days. thats off topic. resaerch that is done is for homosexuals that wish to change , the desire has to come from them alone because they are the ones that know how they feel . my moral views on the topic are irrelevant, and there are plenty of Gay Advovate psychologists and psychiatrist that support reparative and reorientation therapies. One example is Dr. Perloff the former president of the American Psychological Association . the american counseling association supports it also.
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Post by Richard Cunningham on Jun 8, 2005 9:45:54 GMT -5
they used to castrate rapists in the old days. thats off topic. resaerch that is done is for homosexuals that wish to change , the desire has to come from them alone because they are the ones that know how they feel . my moral views on the topic are irrelevant, and there are plenty of Gay Advovate psychologists and psychiatrist that support reparative and reorientation therapies. One example is Dr. Perloff the former president of the American Psychological Association . the american counseling association supports it also. What about the reverse with heterosexuals who want to be gay or bi?
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Post by Samantha on Jun 9, 2005 18:01:33 GMT -5
as far as is it a sin. Yes , we are all sinful creatures and any lust though biologically driven is sinful. everyone sins and thats part of being human. however while having sexual thouhts and desires are uncontrolable acting on them or even fantasising about them are controlable. im talking about both heterosexual and homosexual here. Poo I wrote a response to this but the site timed me out!! Grr ok I'll have to try and write it again. Ok, so, is having children a sin? I'm confused. Are we not supposed to procrastinate? If we are then why can't we enjot it? Maybe that's why childbirth is so painful. What about the 'lesser' animals that have sex? Do they go to fluffy wabbit hell? An eternity with Elmer Fudd...ick...poor wabbits. Should we therefore aspire to extinction? Could God please make his mind up. He is omniscient after all. Maybe he flunked biology, who knows? How we choose a partner if we aren't to be sexually attracted to someone? Is it just sexual attraction? Can we find someone beautiful? Can we prefer them over less beautiful people? Is it sinful to make yourself more sexually attractive? Is it sinful for a woman to shave her legs? (fetish alert: this is a generalisation and not to taken absolutely) Should I not bother trimming the nasal hair I have been worried about? (fetish alert?) If being sexual is sinful should we make ourselves as unattractive as possible? Should we dress up as members of the opposite sex? (fetish alert....) I'm agnostic. I'm open to the idea of God. Who can refuse eternal paradise? Especially if it involves not doing something I can't get anyway. Basically, why is sex a sin? Why have different sexes in the first place? I understand why killing children is bad but sticking a warm veiny thing into a warm wet thing? What is sinful abut that?
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