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Post by shypsychologyguy on May 28, 2005 21:43:32 GMT -5
This is intresting it sound like you are seeking masculenity through this freindship. Im not clear as to wether your love for him is a sexual love or a father or friend type love. I have seen this in some research i did on homosexuality in which a clinician theorized that a person with a passive temperament who grows up lacking a fatherly influence or any male influence may develope gender identity issues and eventually eroticize rather than internalize his quest for masculinity. If you want to, send me a private email because id be intrested in knowing more about your family history . Or post it here if your comfortable with that.
oh and what i thought was bizare was that your teacher was playing Bass on a Marylin Manson song
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Post by wagnerr on May 29, 2005 13:29:30 GMT -5
You're probably right here, i think, about the homosexuality thing. A young man without a father would probably have trouble relating to women as a result.
Although this does not necessarily mean he'll become gay.
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Post by sayoran on May 29, 2005 13:38:09 GMT -5
I do have a Father, although, he is VERY shy and quiet, so, I guess its probably because I have no strong masculine influence.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on May 29, 2005 15:23:55 GMT -5
Although this does not necessarily mean he'll become gay.[/quote]
true , usually it results from a combination of things and lack of a masculine figure is only a small influence amoung others .
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Post by wagnerr on May 30, 2005 1:35:50 GMT -5
true , usually it results from a combination of things and lack of a masculine figure is only a small influence amoung others . So are you one of those people that actually agrees with me that homosexuality is a learned trait and nothing more? From what i've studied of homosexuals, they seem to choose their gayness at some point in their life, often when they were teenagers.
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Post by Richard Cunningham on May 30, 2005 3:36:07 GMT -5
From what i've studied of homosexuals, they seem to choose their gayness at some point in their life, often when they were teenagers. Yes, when they hit puberty. That's when I discovered I was hetero. What was the original post about? It seems to have vanished from existance.
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Post by Paulinus on May 30, 2005 8:31:02 GMT -5
My view is that homosexuality is a mix of biological and environmental factors.
The environmental factors will only sway those on the boundary between hetro and homo. Some men are obviously very feminine from a young age and I don't think any environmental factors will change that.
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Post by sayoran on May 30, 2005 15:50:57 GMT -5
sorry, I deleted it off, I just felt too uncomfortable with my scenario being shared publicaly yet. Im sorry, I may re-post it later...sorry for wating your time people...
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Post by shypsychologyguy on May 30, 2005 16:57:41 GMT -5
So are you one of those people that actually agrees with me that homosexuality is a learned trait and nothing more? From what i've studied of homosexuals, they seem to choose their gayness at some point in their life, often when they were teenagers.
[/quote]
Yes I am . Biology plays a role but it is limited. I believe that once a person acts on the homosexual desire in a prolongued sexual experience it changes the brain chemistry and functioning making Homosexuality seem natural. It is learned not predetermined through genetics.
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Post by zaab on May 30, 2005 17:33:05 GMT -5
So is shyness learned behavior as well and "unnatural"? Both shyness and homosexual behavior are seen in other species, btw.
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Post by strawberrysweetie on May 30, 2005 20:18:00 GMT -5
My view is that homosexuality is a mix of biological and environmental factors. The environmental factors will only sway those on the boundary between hetro and homo. Some men are obviously very feminine from a young age and I don't think any environmental factors will change that. I agree with paulthequiet. I think that perhaps a person's environment and what they've been through could affect them in a way...but I also think there has to be something more, something biological or whatever. I can't imagine anyone "choosing" to be gay...unless they were bisexual and are attracted to both sexes and decide to be with someone of the same sex. I don't think anyone would want to be gay on purpose. That's like saying I could make myself gay and sexually attracted to females. You are attracted to whoever you are attracted to, and I don't believe that anything can change that. And I have heard people say that they felt different at very young ages. And what about those cases where a homosexual man tries to be straight by marrying a woman....only the secret comes out later on. I don't think that means that he chose to be gay...he just couldn't take it anymore, living a lie and all. sorry, I deleted it off, I just felt too uncomfortable with my scenario being shared publicaly yet. Im sorry, I may re-post it later...sorry for wating your time people... Hey, I read your post the other day or two ago, and I was going to comment, but I was planning on doing it another time since it was getting late at the time. I sort of wish I had commented then, because now I'm afraid I may get some facts wrong. Anyway, I remember you saying things about having a serious crush on one of your teachers and also suicide, both of which can be very serious issues. I can sort of relate in a way...at least I think so. During the freshman year of high school, I had gone through a very bad time. It turned out to be nothing like what I expected it to be. That year was probably the loneliest year I've ever had. I couldn't make any friends and the people that I was talking to weren't in any of my classes so I started to lose touch with people. It just made me feel so depressed and nearly hopeless. I went into a very bad, deep depression and was having serious thoughts of suicide...I got to the point where I just couldn't enjoy anything, anytime someone said something that was supposed to be funny, I just had to force a smile and look happy...things like that. That was also around the time that I had developed a crush on one of my younger male teachers. I don't know why I had liked him so much, the crush just happened. I guess it's not really something you control. But just having that crush also made me feel really bad. I felt weird and gross having a crush on a teacher, and I just felt as if I was so different from everyone else. It was the most horrible time ever, and I am very fortunate to have gotten through it. I feel much better now compared to how I felt then, but even so I still can sometimes get really down on myself and depressed. Anyway....the one thing I really could have used during that time to help ease the pain was someone to talk to about things. Everything was bottling up inside, and that can really drive anyone crazy. I have the feeling that maybe you don't have anyone to talk to either. Is there anyone around you that you could talk to? Maybe not like a relative or friend, but a counselor...someone who's used to dealing with tough situations. I know how hard it can be to go to someone, though...I sure as heck never got the guts to do it. But I did consider talking to one of my teacher when they mentioned something suicide and wanting to help others considering it. If you feel you can't get yourself to do that, then I think that even discussing your problems on a forum such as this will help you...at least maybe a little bit. It is anonymous, so that can make it a bit more comforting. Anyway, I hope you start feeling better soon. Don't give up. Things may look gloomy now, but they can and they will get better.
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Post by sayoran on May 30, 2005 21:07:48 GMT -5
Thats almost exactly what i feel, strawberrysweetie, in fact, one of the reasons i took my post down was because i find it difficult to open up to people. Thank you for understanding, i feel kinda happy now! If enough people want me to, i think i might re-type my original post.
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Post by sayoran on May 30, 2005 21:37:52 GMT -5
sorry if im double posting, but i have decided to re-post a version of my first post (original deleted off).
Basically, at the end of year 9, the students had a kareoke day, where the teachers played the live music for the kids to sing to, thats where i saw my form tutor playing his bass guitar along to one of my favourite rock songs-so i naturally felt some kind of admiration for him. During that summer, all i could do was think of him, sitting alone on the swing everyday, playing the images of him playing his bass again and again, feeling empty, like there was something missing. After returning to year 10, when i saw him again, i felt 'relieved' and happy to see him, it was like coming home-it was from this year onwards when i started feeling worse. I got to know him a bit better, finding out that we both loved Rammstein, even lending eachother dvds and cds etc, but when he would talk to the other kids about guitars and music, i started getting really jealous, to the point where i would just sit in my chair at form time, and stare at my feet, when everyone else would be walking and talking, and after a time, my teacher stopped talkng to me (true, because i probably didnt talk to anyone at all) and got on better with the other boys-i then came to the conclusion that he hated me, and i began to hate myself. i felt guilty and a freak, i was not supposed to have these feelings for a man 21 years older than me (im a guy too), i did notice however, how the boys he got on with were sporty, so i stopped eating properly, skipping breakfast, lunch, only eating jacket potatoes at home, to try and lose weight, to the point where i lost 4 stone. in year 11, my final year, on March 26, i was talking to one of my friends about tattoos, when he mentioned my form tutor had a large tribal over his shoulder/arm-i couldnt speak for a minute, i felt my blood rush around my body, and my heart felt heavy, and then i felt guilty for feeling that way. I then began to feel nothing-nothing interested me, and i felt so empty to the point where i would even try to hurt myself, to make myself cry, but i couldn't even feel sad. I wanted everything to end. I would then have fantasies where i would be in class at form time, and i would cut my arms or neck, and i would bleed very dramatically and everyone would care, especially my teacher, or dreams in which there was no choice but for my teacher to kill me, or i forced him to (if any of you are Buffy fans, think of the season 3 finale, where buffy forces angel to feed from her) and again, there would be a lot of blood involved. recently, last week, i started the english GCSE exams (happens when you live in England) and i have been offered a last minute place to enter a specialist language centre for the gifted to study my A-levels, even though i applied to stay to study them at my current school-this is a once in a lifetime oppertunity, and i would gladly accept, except the thought of my teacher holds me back, i dont know what to do...but i know that if was to accept the place, i would get the best oppertunity ever, although, being away from my teacher is like having my heart torn out, it even makes my heart feel heavy now, honestly, it feels like there is a hand inside my, pulling my heart down to my stomach, i swear... Since that day in year 9, i have never managed to sleep properly, its 03:27 currently here in England, and its weird, cause i dont feel sleepy at all now, but ill wake up later, after sleeping for almost nine hours and feel exhausted, like i have no energy. Please help me to help myself, any more comments would be great, and dont worry if you think they'll be harsh, any comments are welcome, thats why im posting, after all. Thank you.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on May 31, 2005 0:00:35 GMT -5
So is shyness learned behavior as well and "unnatural"? Both shyness and homosexual behavior are seen in other species, btw. both biological and environmental at least for me but I say I learned to be shy and avoidant. I am not completely shy but for the most part i was a shy child which temepament is biological. as a result most of my life i have been picked on and bullied which hurt my self image and made me perceive others as threats. Around fifth grade I was rejected from a group of kids i wanted to be friends with that was the begining of my problem. I found avoidance and silence to be reinforcing to me over time I realized that i did not know how to make friends and i had made myself so distant that I was disconnected from my peers. Some of my behaviors are like bad habits that im trying to unlearn. under certain situations I can be very talkative so im not always shy .
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Post by strawberrysweetie on Jun 1, 2005 16:41:31 GMT -5
Thats almost exactly what i feel, strawberrysweetie, in fact, one of the reasons i took my post down was because i find it difficult to open up to people. Thank you for understanding, i feel kinda happy now! If enough people want me to, i think i might re-type my original post. Oh good...at first I was a little worried about sort of telling what your situation was since you said that it made you feel uncomfortable having it written out. But I'm glad you can sort of relate to what I went through. I know how much better it can make you feel to have someone understand where you're coming from. And I'm glad you decided to go ahead and repost it, too. It takes a lot of courage to go for others for help, especially for really tough situations like this one. It's definitely apparent that you have an extreme crush on this teacher of yours. A lot of people have huge crushes, but it's especially hard if it's on one of your teachers. I think the guilty feeling is definitely normal, because that's how I felt also. But you have to remember that you can't control who you're attracted to, and it's only human to become attracted to someone. And I bet what makes you feel even worse is the fact that since he's your teacher, you know that a relationship with him is really improbable. Even if something did occur between you two, it would be a really bad deal to be involved in, I'm sorry to say, but I think you already realize this. And the fact that you know you have something in common makes it even tougher. If one has a crush on another to begin with, and they come to find that they have a lot in common, the attraction naturally becomes even stronger. You feel as if you're connected to this person and that perhaps feels like a sign or something that it's meant to be. Crushes can be the worst thing in the world; I know, they suck. I then began to feel nothing-nothing interested me, and i felt so empty to the point where i would even try to hurt myself, to make myself cry, but i couldn't even feel sad. I wanted everything to end. Yeah, that's sort of how I felt when I fell into a really deep depression. I never actually tried to physically hurt myself, but I would have suicidal thoughts of hurting myself. I had the same feeling of emptiness and wanting things to end...for all the pain to end. I remember that like in the beginning I would cry a lot. But then the deeper I feel into depression, it became so hard for me to even cry, but I don't know why. I guess I was so depressed and had cried so much before that I needed something to happen that was even worse. I don't know, it was really weird. And even not being able to cry anymore made me feel bad, like I was becoming inhuman or something since I wasn't crying in spite of the fact that I was in serious emotional pain. I would then have fantasies where i would be in class at form time, and i would cut my arms or neck, and i would bleed very dramatically and everyone would care, especially my teacher That's really interesting. I've sort of had the same idea come into my mind. Or I would just wonder what others would think if I did in fact kill myself...whether they would even care if I had died or if my death would evoke very little response from others besides my family and it would soon be forgotten and no one would give it even a second thought. And sometimes the thought of other people actually caring about my death made me feel happy. recently, last week, i started the english GCSE exams (happens when you live in England) and i have been offered a last minute place to enter a specialist language centre for the gifted to study my A-levels, even though i applied to stay to study them at my current school-this is a once in a lifetime oppertunity, and i would gladly accept, except the thought of my teacher holds me back, i dont know what to do...but i know that if was to accept the place, i would get the best oppertunity ever, although, being away from my teacher is like having my heart torn out, it even makes my heart feel heavy now, honestly, it feels like there is a hand inside my, pulling my heart down to my stomach, i swear... Okay, I think this opportunity is the best thing that could happen to you...you should totally go for it...seriously! Staying where you are now will only make things worse on you, promise. Getting as far away from that teacher is the best remedy for you. And you'll get the chance to meet new people and to try to escape from what you felt about your teacher. Because I think the more you're around him and the closer you are around him, the stronger your feelings for him will be. The thing that happened with the teacher I had a crush on was that he moved away. I found out during the year that he was engaged, and my heart kind of sank the way you mentioned it and I felt even worse for liking someone who was with another person, I'm really glad he moved away, though. I think it really helped me a lot to get over him and stop thinking about him. He was no longer there to remind me of my feelings for him. I even found out that they had a baby. But him being in another place is totally helpful. So seriously, take the opportunity...it's best. It will be a lot easier to get over him once you're away and preoccupied with other things. Since that day in year 9, i have never managed to sleep properly, its 03:27 currently here in England, and its weird, cause i dont feel sleepy at all now, but ill wake up later, after sleeping for almost nine hours and feel exhausted, like i have no energy. Yeah, I totally know what it's like to be on a bad sleeping schedule. I've been somewhat of a night owl since my freshman year of school, but I'm trying to work on that this summer. I always have felt exhausted when I don't sleep at the right times. What you need to do is seriously try to set up the best sleep schedule for you. For example, I'm going to try to get on a sleeping schedule by going to bed at 10 pm and making myself wake up at 6 am and then doing some morning exercise. It's hard for me, because I really like the peacefulness of the nighttime and having alone time and being able to watch whatever I want or do whatever since there is almost always someone else in the house throughout the day. So yeah, try to set up a decent sleeping schedule for yourself. Just doing that could make a world of difference, I'm sure...especially if you exercise too...it gets your endorphins, which I believe are what help you to be happy, running. So good luck, sayoran...I really hope you decide to take that opportunity you were given. Good things will come your way. You've just got to open the right door and allow them to come through. Like I've said before, things can and will get better.
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