Misfit

[Mildman1]

spitzig said:

Also, I guess this is when kids get into sports, in a way more than occasionally playing with friends. It's a more "extroverted" way of being involved in sports, with all the teams, and not controlling who you play with. Just a thought.

I used to play a team sport, and found that when I was on the field there was a camaraderie, and I seemed to forget my shyness, and I was just as aggressive and involved as everyone else. I even enjoyed the attention I got when I scored a goal. It was a bit like the question that Pele used to get asked: what is better, sex or scoring a goal? He used to say that it was about the same. I agree, there was a 'high' when I scored a goal and in the applause I received. I would enjoy it more if there were spectators ( there almost always wasn't, and when there were, it was only a handful). The social side I enjoyed as long as there were the few people that I hung around with, otherwise I didn't really communicate with the majority of people in the club. After a while though, I stopped enjoying the game and the social side and stopped playing. I have done the same thing with other activities, and jobs. I seem to be able to sustain things for a certain time, and then find that because I'm not fitting in properly, I move on to something else - recurring patterns.

[ASolitarySoul]

Mildman1 said:

Your background seems a bit extreme and obviously, the attitudes that your parents passed on to you would have made it much more difficult to mix with others as you saw yourself as apart from them, different. You're clearly intelligent, and this, possibly combined with your shyness (which can make people more sensitive to others simply because shyness is a feeling of inferiority and therefore elevates what others think) has helped you to overcome your learned prejudices.
Having said that, we're all prejudiced indifferent ways and who's to say that your long haired, rock-music loving fellow students didn't pre-judge you in exactly the same way that your parents pre-judged them?

Yes, they did pre-judge me, but, since I was the non-conformist to the “norm,”
THEIR norm, it becomes inevitable that I would be the odd-ball, the subject
of derision and ridicule. Besides that, you have to remember that they were
kids themselves, and didn’t fully understand the consequences of their actions,
and how it might impact me in the long run. It doesn’t excuse what they did
(or what I myself did), but nevertheless it happened, and I have to bear
the consequences of my own actions, as well as theirs.

So what can you say?
Life isn’t fair.

You also have to remember that the prejudices started with me,
so if anyone is to blame for what happened, it would be me, not them.

However, I believe that shyness is largely genetic, and although it can be moderated or exaggerated by our environment as we are growing up, it is largely predetermined. Have to say though, because shy people are so self-conscious it is natural to spend a lot of time thinking about our relationships with others and I think this can make us better people than we might have been if we were not shy, so I don't think shyness is all negative.

You haven’t met the regulars in alt.support.shyness have you?

There are a lot of angry and bitter shy people in the world,
and I feel for them. Personally, I don’t see any good in thinking
about my relationship with others when there isn’t much I can do
to improve those relationships - when the shyness that is supposed
to give me some sort of “great insight” into my relationship with
the rest of society cripples me in functioning as a part OF that society.

Personally, rather than be someone else who was not shy, I'd like to be me but with adjustments.

The only adjustment that I would make would be to get rid of the shyness.
... now what did I do with that magic lamp with the genie inside?
d**n! I’m always misplacing stuff.


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

Mildman1 said:

A friend?

Possibly - but it isn’t someone with whom I enjoy any sort of
recreational activity with. If this business association works out,
then I guess it’s as close to having a friend that I’ve
ever really had, or will likely to have given the nature
of who I am.


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

spitzig said:

Oh, I've heard it suggested that shy people are less likely to consider a person a friend than a non-shy person. Considering the same degree of closeness.

That’s just it - I have a difficult time making friends.
It really isn’t other people’s fault, but mine - the onus
isn’t upon others to understand the nature of my shyness,
but upon me to get them to understand - and when you have
a limited ability to communicate, poor verbal skills,
then it becomes difficult to develop that understanding.

A lot of it also has to do with my inability to make
a “connection” with people in general, to develop a rapport.
I guess that’s something that’s fundamental to shyness.


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

spitzig said:

I think that's a pretty common age for kids. That is when kids seem to start "actively" worrying about what other kids think. Parties turn into more social(as opposed to playing some games). Kids start dating. And, dating means getting new people to like you, and worrying about whether they do. Also, I guess this is when kids get into sports, in a way more than occasionally playing with friends. It's a more "extroverted" way of being involved in sports, with all the teams, and not controlling who you play with. Just a thought.

I was totally oblivious to this - of course, I was never very bright
to begin with.

I missed out on the “rules.” For some reason, I never “got it,”
that I was supposed to start doing stuff when I was supposed
to do them. I didn’t share the same interests in stuff that
kids my own age shared (cars, sports, music, movies, the contemporary
culture in general), I was worthless at athletics, a slacker
at academics, so I had no basis with which to form friendships.
I never started dating when I should have, and, to this day,
I STILL don’t have a clue as to what I would do with a girl
if I ever got her to actually agree to go out
on an actual date with me.

Whose fault is it? How are you supposed to learn something
when you didn’t know that you were supposed to learn it
when you should have learned it?

Does it really matter anymore?


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[Mildman1]

ASolitarySoul when you talk about a lot of shy people being bitter you're right - This is my reply to Spitzig when he suggested the same:

Mildman1 said:

First of all, can I say that your post has made me think again about what I think shyness is. I said it was a feeling of inferiority, lack of self-esteem, and you are right to say this is not genetic. Maybe it's truer to say I think of it as feeling discomfort consistently with people you are not close to (self-consciousness).I don't think you have to have low self-esteem to be shy, but it can develop from shyness because of negative reactions from others. And of course you're right to say shyness can make you hate others.

[Mildman1]

ASolitarySoul said:

So what can you say?
Life isn’t fair.

The only adjustment that I would make would be to get rid of the shyness.
... now what did I do with that magic lamp with the genie inside?
d**n! I’m always misplacing stuff.

Life is mostly people, so you mean people are not fair?

When you find the magic lamp can you send it via attachment?
Anyway, obviously everyone on this site 'suffers' from different levels of shyness. What's good for me is not necessarily going to work for you, and vice versa. In which case don't bother emailing me the magic lamp.

[spitzig]

Oh, I read not long ago on the alt.support.shyness FAQ that some shyness is not connected to self-esteem. However, it seems to me that everyone I've known that has PROBLEMS with shyness has self-esteem problems.

[Mildman1]

ASolitarySoul said:

That’s just it - I have a difficult time making friends.

I find I can get along with people on a supercial level reasonably well, but tend not to make friends, out of fear I'm going to disappoint people, and so shy away from close ties. I also don't seem to need the level of communication that most other people seem to need, in other words I'm 'quiet'.

ASolitarySoul said:

A lot of it also has to do with my inability to make
a “connection” with people in general, to develop a rapport.

For me personally a rapport is always developed through humour.

[ASolitarySoul]

Mildman1 said:

Life is mostly people, so you mean people are not fair?

Life is about probabilities, and taking chances.
We are not all dealt the same hand in the great poker game of life,
so all we can do is to play the hand that is dealt to us as best
as we can.

I’ve had my share of good and bad breaks, as everyone else.
The true test of one’s character is how well one can exploit
one’s victories and minimize the impact of one’s defeats.

It’s also about risk assessment, and making determinations
as to the viability of an objective, given the costs and the
risks associated with achieving it - do you raise the ante’,
or fold and play the next hand? (BTW: I know next to nothing
about poker, never played the game, nor any other game of chance,
as I don’t trust my luck in such games, but it seems
a good analogy in getting across my point.)

When you find the magic lamp can you send it via attachment?
Anyway, obviously everyone on this site 'suffers' from different levels of shyness. What's good for me is not necessarily going to work for you, and vice versa.

I don’t think it is so much a matter of “levels,” as that
would imply a two-dimensional aspect to shyness.

It’s more a matter of composition, of multi-dimensional deviations
from some sort of a “norm.”

It’s my contention that everyone has SOME sort of shyness,
manifestly obvious or not. I have reached the point that
I can project facades that effectively mask my shyness
in most social settings - I can lend the impression that
I can “fit in,” but, underneath it all, I’m still a misfit.

I’m a total fraud at times, but I don’t see much in the way
of alternatives if I am to survive in the social jungle.

It makes me wonder as to how many of those that would be
considered “extroverts” are actually shy people projecting
a good facade? ... How many other misfits are doing a good
job of impersonating an “extrovert” or a “norm?”

In which case don't bother emailing me the magic lamp.

No matter. I found the lamp, looked inside, and the
genie flipped the bird at me. Just my luck.


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

spitzig said:

Oh, I read not long ago on the alt.support.shyness FAQ that some shyness is not connected to self-esteem. However, it seems to me that everyone I've known that has PROBLEMS with shyness has self-esteem problems.

I think it goes to something beyond self-esteem.

OK, I’m going to do some over-generalizing here,
as there are different kinds of shyness,
with different root causes, but what the heck ...

If you don’t have the social skills to begin with,
if you are simply not the suave, articulate sophisticate
that always commands respect and attention,
then not all the self-esteem in the world is
going to help you to get to that level - If I
were to actually believe that I AM that sophisticate
that engages and fascinates the crowd, then THAT
is nothing more than a delusion that would get me
nothing but ridicule - There are a LOT of extroverts
who believe that they are “hot stuff,”
but they really don’t have the goods to back it up.
It isn’t a matter of self-esteem, but of desensitizing
yourself to the opinions of others - If you are a total dork,
and don’t care if everyone knows the truth about you,
then self-esteem becomes irrelevant, as you are secure
in your “dorkiness.”


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

Mildman1 said:

I find I can get along with people on a superficial level reasonably well, but tend not to make friends, out of fear I'm going to disappoint people, and so shy away from close ties.

As long as I keep everything at arms-length, and don’t let
anyone get close enough to see the misfit in the normal-guy suit,
to look behind the facade that I project, then I do quite well.

As far as disappointing people - THIS is a major hang-up for me as well.
I HATE to make commitments that I cannot honor, as it has an adverse
effect upon my integrity (I failed to do what I promised to do,
so I let down the one to whom I made the promise), and THAT degrades
my self-esteem, as I don’t have much in the way of charisma nor intelligence,
so I have little else other than my integrity. If I lose THAT,
then what have I left?

I’m always qualifying stuff when I make a commitment - “I’ll be there
if I’m not abducted by space aliens.”

I also don't seem to need the level of communication that most other people seem to need, in other words I'm 'quiet'.

I feel that the less often I open my mouth, the less
often I’ll make a fool of myself.
... and, no, I DON’T have a strong need for companionship.

For me personally a rapport is always developed through humour.

... A sense of humor ... Hummm ... where do you go to get
one of those?


Solitary Soul -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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[ASolitarySoul]

I'm pulling this back up to the top,
as it relates to the "Does bullying lead to shyness" question ...


Solitary Soul
All about me -> users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
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