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Post by MrNice on May 20, 2008 6:47:23 GMT -5
yeah I guess it was a bit convoluted
I'll try to break it down
1. you have a crush on a girl that you have known for x amount of time
2. you think you should become friends with her first because she doesn't know you
3. you don't question the fact that in in this x amount of time you somehow know her enough to get a crush
4. you need much more time dancing around her and trying to impress her so that she would get to know you and like you 1/10 as much as you like her
once a woman has relegated you to friends zone, meaning she does not consider you a potential partner its pretty much impossible to go to lovers
this is statistically true
unless there is some RADICAL change, it won't happen
there is a thin line between love and hate and its very easy to go from lovers to friends, but not the other way around
I think what you are missing is the fact that even if two people are friends it doesn't necessarily mean that they put each other in the friends category - for example either one of them could have been dating someone else at the time
and most important, from the guy's side, if he acts like a guy interested in girls in front of his girl/friend and with her - she will treat him this way
however if you always behave like like a sexually disinterested passive dork - thats the opinion your friend will have and she will be very surprised if all of a sudden you meekly suggest something more
have you ever been in a situation where a girl liked you but the feelings were not mutual?
do you think that the said girl could have changed your mind by trying to get to know you more or try to impress with her funky dancing skills?
well now that it has been more then a week you should send a friendly email - however when things were fresh it was better to get right to the point
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Post by Bodhi on May 20, 2008 10:20:39 GMT -5
yeah I guess it was a bit convoluted I'll try to break it down 1. you have a crush on a girl that you have known for x amount of time 2. you think you should become friends with her first because she doesn't know you 3. you don't question the fact that in in this x amount of time you somehow know her enough to get a crush 4. you need much more time dancing around her and trying to impress her so that she would get to know you and like you 1/10 as much as you like her I would question the fact I don't know her that well and have a huge crush on her. I think lots of guys though develop crushes on girls without even thinking about it. I guess you are saying they should try to be more in control of their emotions and not develop these crushes, although that is easier said than done. I'd like to see these statistics. I agree here. But I never said being friends with a girl meant you acted like a sexually disinterested passive dork. I think if you think there might be a possibility of dating a girl, you should try to be friends with her for a certain amount of time until she is comfortable(it could even be only a few times talking to her, but also much longer). But during that time should try to portray yourself as a confident guy, someone who can get a date besides her. Just try to overall show her you are a good guy, a confident guy, a guy girls would like to date. Then you can start to move things beyond friendship. That would be the ideal situation i think, although for most shy guys that's probably not going to happen that way. A girl could absolutely change my mind if I only thought of her as a friend and then she started to show interest! And if she couldn't change my mind, i would have never dated her in the first place. |
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Post by MrNice on May 20, 2008 10:36:04 GMT -5
you can't do this without developing a crush on her
and when you have a crush there is no way you will show any confidence and do all those great things
and this idea of trying to show her that you can get other dates just to impress her is just silly
when you will do your friends thing, you have to suppress your feelings and intentions towards her
you are still centered on the idea of picking some girl, deciding that she is the one, and then choosing some optimal strategy to get her
it doesn't work that way
you do not find her attractive - what can she do to change your mind?
Well have you seen examples of a girl doing LJBF and then changing her mind later on?
a great way to do this is not to employ the friends first strategy to a girl you already like
you can't control your emotions - if you try to impress a girl you inevitably will develop feelings for her
the more you dance around her, the more energy you invest, the more desperate you will become
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Post by Bodhi on May 20, 2008 11:01:44 GMT -5
you can't do this without developing a crush on her and when you have a crush there is no way you will show any confidence and do all those great things and this idea of trying to show her that you can get other dates just to impress her is just silly when you will do your friends thing, you have to suppress your feelings and intentions towards her You don't have to suppress your feelings, you can still flirt with her and tease her. You don't have to be a sexual unich around her, but you also don't have to ask her out immediatly. You can tow the line for a while and then move things along graudally. An example, there is a girl you like at school you want to date. Wouldn't it be better to start talking to her, befriend her, maybe run into her at events outside of school and continue being funny and friendly to her, and then ask her out. Or, ask her out immediatly? Also, why can't you show confidence around a girl you have a crush on? She can show me her personality and things I didn't know about her, and I very well could change my mind. This is especially true for girls, since they are usually less concerned with looks than guys. Also, situations change for girls and they might be more willing to date someone for whatever reason later on. If you are still friends with her, she might look to you. If you asked her out and were rejected, you are out of the picture most likely. I know a girl that was friends with a guy for over a year and a half at school, and a month ago they started dating. Another example, my good friend was friends with a girl in class, talked to as just friends most of the semester, than one night at a party she revealed she liked him and they started dating. She told him she liked him because he talked to her, while not many other people did. He didn't ask her out right away, but he was friends with her and when she revealed how she felt he had that opportunity that wouldn't have been there if he decided not to be friends with her. There are countless more examples. |
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Post by MrNice on May 20, 2008 11:47:57 GMT -5
you can't flirt with her and tease her because you are afraid of her looking negatively upon you - you are afraid to do anything or say anything besides the most casual and inoffensive things
when something matters to you so much - you can't relax you can't be yourself and you are always nervous
if you would like to date a girl then you have known her enough to want to date her - but you think she needs an extra 2 months to want to date you? why?
If you would like to date a girl - then ask her out
no it would not be better to plan your life around her and do all these things specifically so you can ask her out at some point
because its so important to you that you are afraid to do anything wrong - and you don't have confidence in what you are doing
there you go
what you are still missing though is that if she rejects you early on she would reject you later on as well
I am asking for an example where a girl responded with a LJBF to a guy that liked her, and then changed her mind later on
in your story, did this guy have a crush on her for a year and half leading up to the finale? or was he just going on about his life?
did he become friends with her because he liked her in order to get her? was he trying to impress her all the time?
did the guy have any other romantic adventures during that year and a half?
do you not see the difference between being friends with a girl and becoming friends with a girl in order to get her while hiding your feelings towards her?
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Post by Bodhi on May 20, 2008 12:18:55 GMT -5
Mr. Nice, I think your outlook on dating is ask a girl out as soon as possible because otherwise you will develop feelings for her and become stressed out, depressed, obsessive and unable to be confident and develop a relationship with her. Also you will know right away how she feels about you and not get into a 'friends zone' in which she will never date you.
I'll accept that is your dating world view, and from your posts I know you will not change that view.
My view is more optimistic I guess, but not mutually exclusive. I think a guy should go about things casually. He should "be social' with girls, whether he becomes true friends with them or not. He should try to be comfortable with girls and if he starts to develop feelings for one of these girls, he should try to move things along. I think asking a girl to hang out or get lunch and casual things like that are good places to start. I think if he develops these feelings most guys can still function around the girl(although some very anxious guys might not be able to). I also think that a guy can have a friend who is a girl and maybe even a year or more later still move things along to another level. I don't think a guy should sit around and obsess over a girl for a year though, but I'm just saying things can change.
No one is saying a guy should become friends with a girl for an excessive amount a time, while he is obsessing over dating her during that entire time. I think most people here are just saying you can take SOME time to be comfortable around her and have her be comfortable around you before you start to move things along. I think what we mostly disagree is on what that time span should be.
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Post by ball4yourout on May 20, 2008 12:35:39 GMT -5
I'm about to not send this E-mail. If either strategy is sure to fail, then what's the point?
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Post by MrNice on May 20, 2008 12:43:13 GMT -5
look
I am all for becoming social having friends and all that and if things happen great
what is mutually exclusive is the situation where you already know you want to date a girl and then you try to implement all of the above as a strategy for getting this one girl
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Post by MrNice on May 20, 2008 12:43:21 GMT -5
just send it
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Post by deadendphilosopher on May 20, 2008 15:11:03 GMT -5
I'm about to not send this E-mail. If either strategy is sure to fail, then what's the point? Either strategy is NOT sure to fail! Why do you say this? There is a real possibility that it might fail, but there is also a real possibility that it won't. You fail if your fear keeps you imobilized, doing nothing. Give it a chance! The more girls you ask out in life the more chances you have. If you don't get the response you're hoping for from this girl, remember that it is not necessarily about you. In reality your success or failure does not define you - it's part of a continuous learning process. If you "fail" you have the power to get over it. If you "fail" you will have also succeeded in behaving courageously and breaking a boundary. That is a step on the road to success in many areas of life - but if you don't even try you won't have made that step. Maybe this step is too big for you right now. I'm under the impression that it's not, but of course only you can make that judgment. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on May 20, 2008 16:46:56 GMT -5
i don't think it matters what you do as long as you freakin DO something.  |
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gaia
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Post by gaia on May 20, 2008 17:13:41 GMT -5
Don't send it. People here clearly aren't capable of giving you sound advice, and you're obviously not sure what to do on your own. I don't feel it would be a good idea at this point in your life.
I suggest you get used to being around a variety of girls first through working or college (just as you have been getting used to being around this girl) before going into the unknown territory of a relationship. You'll be more familiar with them, and so a little more at ease with the idea of approaching them.
You need to be sorted in yourself before getting into a relationship - so sorted, you don't need people like us here confusing you. You will just know in your heart what is right.
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Post by pnoopiepnats on May 20, 2008 17:57:39 GMT -5
i don't think it matters what you do as long as you freakin DO something. Agreed It has been over a week now. You are hesitating because you have no control over the outcome but if you think you say just the right thing it will make a difference. It won't. The whole point of this isn't to get the girl but to do something that moves you out of paralysis. |
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Post by ball4yourout on May 20, 2008 18:00:52 GMT -5
I really don't have much of an opportunity to be around girls, period. Life has its moments and stages, and I'm unfortunately beginning to come out of that moment/stage where I should have acquired that experience and familiarity. Its very difficult to suddenly ask me to go to a party and try to become social when I have never even thought about going to a party in my entire life.
I do have an E-mail drafted up, but like Gaia said, I'm not comfortable with sending it. I really don't think it will be too bad, but I don't know what I am doing.
This absolutely blows. I guess some things in life are way too much to ask for.
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gaia
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Post by gaia on May 20, 2008 18:08:31 GMT -5
No opportunities to be around girls? Well you can be closer to them at school or work though, right? You don't have to talk or do anything wild - simply observe. It should just be a gentle process.
As for the going to parties thing, I wasn't suggesting that. Parties are not a good situation to be in socially anyway - I mean it's not the ideal opportunity to make friends, let alone girlfriends.
Forget the "should haves" (By now I should have X... I should know how to X).
You need to go by your own rules and take things at a pace you are comfortable with.
To jump in at the deep end now wouldn't be sensible - you could "drown", so to speak.
This isn't to say you are incapable or that you should never try asking a girl out ever - you should just give yourself some time to think about the 'hows' and 'whens'.
If you haven't a clue what you're doing or what you'd like to be doing even, it will show. And that's not good.
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