how can i meet a woman

[annaa]

lsdima said:

Gag reflex in some people is too strong. No amount of communication will get over that.

you never know unless you try.
have you tried it?

I wasn't saying I wouldn't have a go at oral sex. I was talking specifically about "deep throat". I don't see how the ability to get a penis past my tonsils will "make or break" a relationship. Surely it's the quality of what you can do, and not the quantity?

[skyhint]

konnor said:

skyhint said:

An hour one on one sound pretty intimidating to a shy person. Even if I could get a date like that with someone I just met I probably would not ask for it. Far too stressful IMO. I would instead ask if the person I liked would be at the location we met (bar or whatever) next week and exchange phone numbers. Also, this is just me, but I don't like formal dates. If you are hanging out together and you feel she/he is into you ask for a kiss, or give a hug, or hold hands as you walk her/ him to the car/home. Relationships are much more fun if you don't take them too seriously.

There are people out there who you will find you will be able to talk to for hours on end. Once certain barriers are down the conversation will pick up steam if you are enjoying each others company.

I quite like formal dates. You get that focus time where you get to really know a person, as well as learning a little more about yourself. Once the ice is broken and you are on the date you can begin to relax a little.

It's breaking the ice that is so god damn hard sometimes.

*reaches for his pick

Yes but if there is some other reason for her to be there aside from to talk to you she is more likely to show up and l there will be less pressure on you to keep her entertained.
Who am I even helping by writing this? Apparently you men know it all. If anyone needs Skyhint advice PM me.

[phoenixferret]

annaa said:

lsdima said:

you never know unless you try.
have you tried it?

I wasn't saying I wouldn't have a go at oral sex. I was talking specifically about "deep throat". I don't see how the ability to get a penis past my tonsils will "make or break" a relationship. Surely it's the quality of what you can do, and not the quantity?

No Anna, don't! We must allow him to imagine that women who won't take it in that far are prudish selfish bitches, or else his head might explode.

lsdima said:

The way I see it, learning to socialize through trial and error is like learning the guitar through a developed understanding of musical theory and rigorous practice.

no - learning to sozialize (+pursue women romantically) through trial and error is like picking up the guitar and just trying to play. Good luck with that.

Oh, yeah, of course--because only social geniuses manage to learn how to talk to people without a manual. I never realized how brilliant it was of me to learn this way.

Its even more like writing your own music. Before you can do that you have to learn the theory and learn to play what other people have written.

No. Using FS is like those kids who learn to draw by tracing anime. Some use it as a springboard to learn to draw better and get into art school... most just suck at drawing for life, lol.

The material in question is what provides the theory foundation and a set of steps to help one learn. It is not 'quick and easy'. It takes courage dedication and time.

Wow, courage and dedication and time? That sounds like exactly what it takes to go out and learn to socialize through developing confidence and practicing conversation skills. In your previous post, you said FS was "much quicker" than trying on one's own, so--how much quicker is it? And what does it offer that, say, a good round of cognitive therapy does not? It seems to me that its major selling point is "game theory" and "pickup techniques," not "social skills."

Keep in mind that FS is a set of steps to help one learn to be cocky/funny in order to pick up women who like cocky guys. It teaches a very specific skill set, and to suggest that it generically teaches "how to socialize" is dishonest.

As far as FS is just one of many resources available, a collection of observations. Its up to the individual to see what applies and to really figure things out.

The Secret is also a set of observations that, if you read carefully, could yield good information on how to live life. But why would I want to read The Secret when there are better sources out there--sources that focus on "thinking positive to improve the way you live your life," rather than "using the mystical power of positive thought to convince the universe to give you presents?" The Secret has very specific goals, and if you aren't interested in those specific goals, there's really no reason to rely on it.

If you want to to "gain confidence and learn to socialize more easily," there are better ways to do this than by reading material that attempts to teach "how to act cocky/funny in order to gain confidence in picking up chicks and getting laid."

[MrNice]

No Anna, don't! We must allow him to imagine that women who won't take it in that far are prudish selfish bitches, or else his head might explode.

yes, lets make me into a villain now, then it would be easier for you to attack what I say

Oh, yeah, of course--because only social geniuses manage to learn how to talk to people without a manual. I never realized how brilliant it was of me to learn this way.

its not about who can learn it on their own - its about those who can't and didn't, though there was plenty of time - if you noticed its the ones that are asking.

Wow, courage and dedication and time? That sounds like exactly what it takes to go out and learn to socialize through developing confidence and practicing conversation skills. In your previous post, you said FS was "much quicker" than trying on one's own, so--how much quicker is it? And what does it offer that, say, a good round of cognitive therapy does not? It seems to me that its major selling point is "game theory" and "pickup techniques," not "social skills."

how much quicker? it depepnds
if you notice many guys don't learn much on their own
you can go out there and fail and fail and fail and not realize what you are doing wrong, and things get more difficult with time instead of getting easier
if you have reference from other people you can figure out what it is you are doing wrong and fix it

And what does it offer that, say, a good round of cognitive therapy does not? It seems to me that its major selling point is "game theory" and "pickup techniques," not "social skills."

I don't know what cognitive therapy has to offer as I haven't done it
and I am not trying to sell anything
you pick what you want to attack while ignoring what is helpful - thats just your biased view

Keep in mind that FS is a set of steps to help one learn to be cocky/funny in order to pick up women who like cocky guys.
...
how to act cocky/funny in order to gain confidence in picking up chicks and getting laid

wrong
FS is a web site - cocky funny is a concept in a book
cocky funny is not a way to be
you can say something that is cocky and funny - thats about it
you erected this cocky funny dishonest straw man to keep attacking what you do not understand
I can see why women would look negatively upon these concepts - it sounds like manipulation however that is only on the surface
in reality when you meet a guy and like him that never heard of this, he is doing the same manipulation - in that case you wouldn't call it that though

No. Using FS is like those kids who learn to draw by tracing anime. Some use it as a springboard to learn to draw better and get into art school... most just suck at drawing for life, lol.

no its not. using FS is not like tracing anime. Its like reading the theory behind drawing and doing excercises that help you learn. Trying to learn to draw on your own just by experimenting on the other hand is much longer and more likely to result in sucking for life.
Also I would like to point out that FS is just a small part of a much bigger realm of advice on this topic, with its own particulars. Its up to an individual to see what makes sense and how to apply things they read about.
The quality of advice can differ greatly between those writing it, but there is definitely some good advice out there.

It teaches a very specific skill set, and to suggest that it generically teaches "how to socialize" is dishonest.

it is geared towards picking up women yes, however it does teach how to socialize

[MrNice]

Yes but if there is some other reason for her to be there aside from to talk to you she is more likely to show up and l there will be less pressure on you to keep her entertained.

the more she likes you the more likely she is to show up
if she doesn't like you then she should turn down your invitation
if she doesn't like you enough to show up then it is not worth further effort
usually its quite obvious whether she will show up during the conversation

its the difference between - yep, I'll be there
and some other BS

[annaa]

What about my question lsdima? You didn't answer it.

[pnoopiepnats]

[phoenixferret]

if you notice many guys don't learn much on their own
you can go out there and fail and fail and fail and not realize what you are doing wrong, and things get more difficult with time instead of getting easier
if you have reference from other people you can figure out what it is you are doing wrong and fix it

You're just mythologizing FS into this social panacea without actually saying anything about the method itself. That it's good to get advice when you're having trouble is true, but it doesn't recommend FS any higher. I could argue in favor of sugar pills that "it's good to take medicine when your immune system is down and you're feeling bad and need to get things done." But it's just sleight of hand.

yes, lets make me into a villain now, then it would be easier for you to attack what I say

Well, you know, it takes a lot of effort to make you look like a villain, but I do try.

you pick what you want to attack while ignoring what is helpful - thats just your biased view

What a ridiculous statement. Of course I'm "picking what I want to attack." This isn't gradeschool; I don't have to temper every criticism with a positive. "The president is an idiot--but he's got great hair!"

I've never seen you admit anything negative about FS except that the quality of the advice varies, while I have consistently made the point that while FS has some positive aspects for those wise enough to dissect is out, the negatives outweigh the positives, and the very perspective through which the advice is filtered imparts a negative view of women and relationships. And yet this is the second or third time you've accused me of being blinded by bias and womanness and seeing only negative.

I certainly don't blame any woman who dismisses FS as bullshit without bothering to hash it out, but your own bias establishes a few things that make my argument difficult to follow:

1. FS is fundamentally good.
2. You cannot trust what women say.
3. Women don't like FS because it gives away their secrets/makes them feel smart to think they wouldn't fall for it, even though they like, totally would.

lsdima said:

wrong
FS is a web site - cocky funny is a concept in a book
cocky funny is not a way to be
you can say something that is cocky and funny - thats about it
you erected this cocky funny dishonest straw man to keep attacking what you do not understand

So cocky/funny is a copyrighted term. Semantics. Whether they call it cocky/funny, or "peacocking," or putting on a good show, or "passing her tests" makes no difference. Explain how "cocky/funny" is a straw man when it is something you yourself have advocated in the past, if I remember correctly. Perhaps I've confused the seduction community generically with Fast Seduction(TM), but again... semantics.

Let me remind you that "funny" is a way to be, and "cocky" is a way to be; I would say that someone who consistently said funny things is funny, and someone who said many cocky things is cocky. So unless you're trying to advocate the use of E-Prime in everyday speech, you're going to have to concede that cocky/funny is a way to be.

I can see why women would look negatively upon these concepts - it sounds like manipulation however that is only on the surface
in reality when you meet a guy and like him that never heard of this, he is doing the same manipulation - in that case you wouldn't call it that though

Ha! Wrong. I think I detect a bad case of circular reasoning: FS is natural and good because FS teaches manipulation, which gets guys chicks, and since regular guys get chicks, they must use manipulation, which proves that FS is natural and good.

You have to have a very dim view of humanity to call normal, natural flirting "manipulation," whereas FS quite clearly is all about manipulation and head games, though seemingly followers prefer to think of it as "based in psychology," as I once read.

no its not. using FS is not like tracing anime. Its like reading the theory behind drawing and doing excercises that help you learn. Trying to learn to draw on your own just by experimenting on the other hand is much longer and more likely to result in sucking for life.

Lol, no. Learning to draw on your own generally has excellent results, and you really don't need to know any "theory" or buy any of those cheesy Learn-to-Draw books to do it--in fact you're much better off just going out and drawing things. That's pretty much how it's done these days, even in art school, rather than having artists simply imitate a master like they would have a couple centuries ago. Trust me on this.

Also I would like to point out that FS is just a small part of a much bigger realm of advice on this topic, with its own particulars. Its up to an individual to see what makes sense and how to apply things they read about.
The quality of advice can differ greatly between those writing it, but there is definitely some good advice out there.

There "is" good advice; it exists. Yes, there is some decent information buried in the tripe. I've seen some of it. That doesn't redeem the seduction community at large. The common attitudes of fast seduction advocates, even those who talk about picking out good advice from the bad, suggest that it is more difficult to separate "good" from "bad" advice than they advertised.

It teaches a very specific skill set, and to suggest that it generically teaches "how to socialize" is dishonest.

it is geared towards picking up women yes, however it does teach how to socialize

The Secret is geared toward getting whatever you want through the power of thought, however it does teach positive thinking.

[pnoopiepnats]

lsdima said:

Gag reflex in some people is too strong. No amount of communication will get over that.

you never know unless you try.
have you tried it?


if I thought about it that way I would proabably be sqeamish
otherwise its quite fun

Even if I could get a date like that with someone I just met I probably would not ask for it. Far too stressful IMO. I would instead ask if the person I liked would be at the location we met (bar or whatever) next week and exchange phone numbers.

obviously you exchange phone numbers and don't just try to set it up right there
hanging out one on one is a necessary part of establishing a relationsip, whether romantic or friendship, or whatever else

[phoenixferret]

annaa said:

What about my question lsdima? You didn't answer it.

I want to hear him respond to this one.

stranger said:

Have you ever sucked a penis? You won't know you won't like it unless you try.

While one mightn't know from experience, they can still be thoroughly convinced beyond reasonable doubt that they will not enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with simply finding something unappealing.

[Naptaq]

lsdima said:

Also I would like to point out that FS is just a small part of a much bigger realm of advice on this topic, with its own particulars. Its up to an individual to see what makes sense and how to apply things they read about.
The quality of advice can differ greatly between those writing it, but there is definitely some good advice out there.

Yeah, one uses what makes sense and works. Ditch the rest.

[airburst]

That is the sexiest book cover I've ever seen.

[Crashtastic]

airburst said:

That is the sexiest book cover I've ever seen.

I think this one is sexier ;D ....and the title is hilarious lol

[MrNice]

You're just mythologizing FS into this social panacea without actually saying anything about the method itself. That it's good to get advice when you're having trouble is true, but it doesn't recommend FS any higher. I could argue in favor of sugar pills that "it's good to take medicine when your immune system is down and you're feeling bad and need to get things done." But it's just sleight of hand.

I don't know what you mean by the FS method. As far as I know its just a collection of articles

1. FS is fundamentally good.
2. You cannot trust what women say.
3. Women don't like FS because it gives away their secrets/makes them feel smart to think they wouldn't fall for it, even though they like, totally would.

nice of you to construct an argument for me
no, this is not what I am trying to say
I never said anything about secrets or not trusting women
as far as FS goes it might not be the best place but I assume you don't just mean FS but the whole spectrum of related advice
so I am trying to point out that there is sound advice out there and its not all bullshit like you claim

Lol, no. Learning to draw on your own generally has excellent results, and you really don't need to know any "theory" or buy any of those cheesy Learn-to-Draw books to do it--in fact you're much better off just going out and drawing things. That's pretty much how it's done these days, even in art school, rather than having artists simply imitate a master like they would have a couple centuries ago. Trust me on this.

ok, so drawing is not a good analogy.

So cocky/funny is a copyrighted term. Semantics. Whether they call it cocky/funny, or "peacocking," or putting on a good show, or "passing her tests" makes no difference.

you just described several completely different things

Explain how "cocky/funny" is a straw man when it is something you yourself have advocated in the past, if I remember correctly. Perhaps I've confused the seduction community generically with Fast Seduction(TM), but again... semantics.

I don't know much about the seduction community - I just read several books on the topic and analyzied them as compared to my own experience and to what I see happening in the lives of my numerous friends. I advocated saying something cocky/funny as a way to try to say something different then you usually say and not being so serious all the time. One of the most common complaints from shy people is being afraid of a boring conversation. Well that fear is not based on nothing. The common approach taken by a shy guy to a conversation with an attractive member of opposite does end up boring.

There "is" good advice; it exists. Yes, there is some decent information buried in the tripe. I've seen some of it. That doesn't redeem the seduction community at large. The common attitudes of fast seduction advocates, even those who talk about picking out good advice from the bad, suggest that it is more difficult to separate "good" from "bad" advice than they advertised.

I am not sure what exactly attitudes you are talking about so I can't say
a guy needs to experiement and see whats what

Ha! Wrong. I think I detect a bad case of circular reasoning: FS is natural and good because FS teaches manipulation, which gets guys chicks, and since regular guys get chicks, they must use manipulation, which proves that FS is natural and good.

You have to have a very dim view of humanity to call normal, natural flirting "manipulation," whereas FS quite clearly is all about manipulation and head games, though seemingly followers prefer to think of it as "based in psychology," as I once read.

you are the one that wants to call natural flirting manipulation
I never made that statement - I am trying to point out that it is natural flirting and regular guys do it all the time

but how do you teach someone to flirt? For example to a 'shy' guy pretty much any kind of flirting would seem completely inappropriate and thats tied up in a bunch of attitudes that such a person holds that they need to reexamine. Often a shy guy can't even start a normal converstion with a girl because he is afraid that she will find it creepy.

[MrNice]

What about my question lsdima? You didn't answer it.

yes