My name is ..., and I am shy

[Jarous]

I don't know what to say, Cary. I am not good at comforting others (well, not even myself). Just that I do feel with you ... and hope you are better soon.

Do not think that if she turned you down, she couldn't have had a great time with you. The possible reasons for her decision are infinite. That does not tell anything about your qualities.

Suppressing emotions is a certain way to unhappiness yet wallowing in them perhaps even surer one. But I trust you won't do that.

And one more thing: it's said you should keep your expectations low not to be disappointed, but do we really want that? I tend to believe that you get exactly what you wish for, hope for, expect or want bad enough.

[Japanese]

Jarous said:

And one more thing: it's said you should keep your expectations low not to be disappointed, but do we really want that? I tend to believe that you get exactly what you wish for, hope for, expect or want bad enough.

When it comes to short-term goals, I tend to keep my expectations low... and it works, say, 70% of the time, meaning that it makes it easier for me to accept the reality.
However, when it's about my long-term goals, I always keep my expectations high, no matter what other people say.

[CaryGrant]

Thanks guys. Very interesting point about expectations, Jarous. Who wants to live life trying to avoid disappointment? Not me!

So, thinking out loud now, I have been trying to not have great expectations or even hopes about any particular woman, but definitely to have high expectations about women in general. Meaning, I hope and expect to meet the woman of my dreams, but not to hope or expect that this one is necessarily her. I am concerned that having high hopes makes it difficult to enjoy the moment and the person I'm with, because I'm piling all this extra stuff on her. What do you think?

[spitzig]

I'd probably try to take the Zen approach. Live in the moment. Attach no expectations or hopes to any woman. If something good happens, good. Not that I'm a very good Zen student.

[CaryGrant]

My birthday recently passed, and a (shy) friend found out and insisted I have a celebratory dinner. Normally I don't do anything for my birthday, and don't care if I get cards, gifts, or attention...but my new level of self-awareness and her insistence helped me realise that the reason I don't want attention is because I don't feel I deserve any. This is a very unhealthy way to see myself, so I agreed to the dinner which is tonight. A little celebration of me.

It's also intimidating because it's the next step in creating more intimate relationships, and I've realised this fear has been keeping me homebound recently. I've met a large number of acquaintences recently, but now to take the next step and invite someone to get together means risking rejection in a big way.

I have made friends with two women from my vegetarian group, and it looks like two women I met through internet dating will turn into friends. I just have to keep deepening the relationship (assuming I like and trust them enough to do so).

I'm also going to check out the New Warriors men's group in the hopes of meeting self-aware men interested in social change.

And finally, a very attractive vegetarian woman moved into the apartment next to me. We've spoken a couple of times in the hall...if she asks, in a roundabout way, whether or not I'm married, does that sound like she's interested? She also set off her smoke alarm the other day and I went over to make sure she was ok, which was appreciated. Ok, now I'm just rambling....

[Jarous]

Happy birthday, Cary. And have a nice evening.

[CaryGrant]

Thank you! And I did!

I'm just finishing a book called The Way of the Superior Man, but David Deida, and it's been a fabulous book. It's all about embracing one's masculinity - that you must to feel at peace. This is so true...he's pulling together thougths that have been swirling around in my head for some time now. For example:

• Masculinity and femininity are independent of gender or sexual orientation, though generally speaking, most men are masculine.
  
  
• Any person can be more or less masculine; there is no "right" amount.
  
  
• The more masculine you are, the more feminine a woman you will be attracted to.
  
  
• The more easygoing you are, the more "hot" (ie fiery, full-of-life, quickly sexually aroused) a woman you will be attracted to.
  
  
• Masculine (very roughly): Mission in life is more important than anything else, including relationships and family; more rational and logical than emotional; straightforward and "a man's word is his bond"; directed and purposeful; prefer to take (conquer) than be taken sexually.
  
  
• Feminine: Love is more important anything else in life, including mission; emotional and highly intuitive; indirect and her word is based on the feeling of the moment; a vast source of undirected energy (life force); prefer to be taken (surrender) than to take.

Controversial, some of it, and I have not expressed much of it very well, but I think he is right on in many areas.

[Mexico Traveler]

Shy is as shy does! These words were spoken by many of my friends and they are right. If you feel you are shy you will be and you will act it out.

Many shy people are more introverted and have social anxiety as they are unsure of themselves. Reading all kinds of self help books could help those or you who have difficulty understanding how men and woman look at each other.

There is a recent book of a couple of years ago called, "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus". This book explains that men and women are totally different animals in how they think; how they look at love and how they look at a relationship.

Now, I have my own ideas of how my life can be better and I can observe or do trial and error lessons and learn from my mistakes. Self help books are a waste of good money when it comes to dating the opposite sex. You would be better served to spend the money on yourself by taking classes where you can meet women, then spending the money on your date.

I never get my hopes up too high on any date. Keeping your expectations low results in better self esteem when the date goes fairly good and you really feel you are moving in the right direction when your date asks you to come in after a date. Don't read too much into..an invitation into her apartment/home. It beats standing on her doorstep all night.

There is another old saying..."roses are great but liquor is quicker"!!!! ;D

[CaryGrant]

So here it is, almost a month after I went on the date with the cutie pie that I clicked with - at least for the first part of the date, before she freaked out that I reminded her too much of her ex-boyfriend, who she was clearly not over - and I still can't get her out of my head. How ridiculous is that? One date, and I'm stuck on her? Jeez...

It's because I had never felt this way with someone before. It was a great feeling, not at all like the neediness I've felt in prior relationships. What I used to think was 'love' I now realise was a rather desperate need to fill a void in myself. It wasn't like that with this woman - more a case of never having met someone to whom I felt so attracted, yet in the way that I wanted her rather than needed her.

Now, however, this is getting ridiculous. Sure I want her, but I can't have her, so just move on, right? A fear of loss comes up for me, in that I worry that I won't find anyone else I'll connect with in this way. I know that the cure is to get out meeting people again, especially women, so I may have to get back into the internet dating thing.

I've tended to spend more solitary time lately because I've been working in a office, so haven't felt the need to be out socializing. But I think I'll have to get back out there...too much time to dwell on silly things...not that I want to get busy and thus actually avoid personal growth, but rather get back to meeting new people and developing friendships.

Enough babbling for today...

[CaryGrant]

So, I wrote the previous entry yesterday morning, then did an online tarot card reading which I took to be all about her (and yes, I know online tarot is a silly idea all around), and in the afternoon on the way home from work I bumped into her! Coincidence? You be the judge....

Now, that meeting drastically changed how I see her. On our date, it was as though the sun was shining out from inside her: she was radiant, glowing, beautiful. I found her highly attractive, though she's not my usual 'type' at all. Yesterday, it was as though the sun had gone out. She looked older than her years, a bit dull and lifeless, and not particularly happy. She seemed quite closed and guarded. As I didn't do anything - I didn't attack her, or get too forward, or anything like that, and I accepted her rejection after the date - this must be coming from her own fears. What they are, I don't know, and it doesn't really matter.

I am very glad I ran into her before she left town (she's going away for at least 6 months), as I would have had this unbalanced image of her that might have made it difficult to be open to other women. I do want to know what the source of the chemistry was. I have to watch that I don't like someone primarily because she likes me; I want to be sure that I'm paying attention to what I want, too.

[spitzig]

CaryGrant said:

I have to watch that I don't like someone primarily because she likes me

I've been told the opposite(not being interested in those who are not interested in you) is a sign of low self-esteem. I'd guess this would be one, too.

[CaryGrant]

It's been a very productive week, yet at the same time it feels like I've taken a couple of steps backward! What has happened is that I stalled in my progress, but on analysis (and with the help of a therapist), realised that I've hit the root cause of some of my problems. I have some very disempowering beliefs that I've run up against, which are:

• I do not deserve to have what I want.
  
• If I let people see the real me, they will leave me.
  
• Sex is "dirty," meaning shameful.

The good news is that, having unearthed these, I can replace them with positive, empowering, liberating beliefs. I have learned to slow down my internal dialogue, which sometimes flashes by so quickly, or perhaps sums up many feelings in just one word or image.

So, if I catch myself feeling selfish, fearing rejection, or shameful, I then immediately take some deep breaths and try and slow things down so I can backtrack and find the thoughts that led to the feelings. Once I know the thoughts, I can 'dismember' them and replace them with positive affirmations something like this:

• I deserve to have the things in life that I want.
• I like the real me, and so will my kind of people.
  
• Sex is normal, natural, and fun.

I look forward to moving forward again. Seriously, I think that the negative beliefs mentioned above are the single biggest roadblock to my being non-shy, more confident, feeling like I belong, etc.

I also went to a men's support group last night. Their mission is "Changing The World One Man at a Time." They have regular meetings at which men are encouraged to share - if they want - challenges that they want some help and support working through. It's a very nonjudgemental, supportive environment.

I decided to share that I am tired of being overly nice, obsequious, sucking up, etc., to try and get people to like me. I often jump in to complete a person's sentence in an attempt to show them I'm right where they are, that I totally understand, that we are as one. Or I'll nod, smile, and make noises of agreement. And I do all this whether I like the person or not, or whether I agree with what they are saying or not.

They led my through finding a concrete solution - my own solution, not one that someone else came up with for me. It included an affirmation and a commitment to keep a daily log of my behavior so I can monitor how I'm doing.

The whole experience was very empowering and liberating. It felt great to share in an environment where I was not judged, and where everyone else was also working through issues. It was like being surrounded by several fathers of the kind that I wish I'd had. If you are interested, check them out here: www.mkp.org/

[Hermit]

For a "shy" guy, you sure do meet a lot of women! lol

It sounds to me from reading your posts that you've experienced a lot of the same things i have; though you've done a much better job of defining and then attacking these issues than i have.. i think at some earlier time in your life you followed a different turn in the road than i did. Even though still suffering from your shyness, you were able to meet, marry, and have kids. Things didn't necessarily go the way you wanted, but at least you were *living* your life- making mistakes and learning from them. From what i've read, you made a habit of facing your problems, often learning the hard way, but learning nonetheless.
I applaud your successes and failures, i wish i could do the same.

[CaryGrant]

Thanks hermit. One of the reasons I've met a lot of women (married two, seriously dated ~four others) is because I was driven by a desperation to be in a relationship. Really, I was desperately seeking completeness, trying to fill holes in me. Didn't work.

As to facing my fears, I've experienced more growth in the last 9 months than in the previous 20 years. Talk about wasting time. It's because I finally committed to becoming nonshy, which led to deeper issues that caused the shyness. (See my 5/27 post.)

The significant things that happened were:

• Parents divorced. My mother was EXTREMELY ashamed about this, and I internalised it.
  
• Didn't see or have contact with my father for ~ 7 years, contributing to fears of abandonment and of not being worthy (what's wrong with me that my dad didn't want me).
  
• Mother remarried around puberty for me. Stepfather believed that masculinity was demonstrated by big muscles, big status, big money, materialism, and was very threatened by my developing, and more genuine masculinity. He belittled it (and therefore me) and tried to mold me into him.

Those key events produced my fears. In addition, sex was a big taboo, and I cannot remember one instance of my mother/father or mother/stepfather showing any signs of physical intimacy, never mind sexuality. I think one or more of them felt sex was shameful, and I managed to internalise that, too.

On the bright side, now that it's all conscious, I can work through it fairly quickly (meaning it won't take another 20 years!).

[Mexico Traveler]

CG, you ahve come a long way. Glad you are overcoming your fears and have identified from various sources those fears that have held you back.

Sex is certainly an issue that we all have to face, in whether we are ready, willing or able. Ready in the sense of making a commitment to "go for it" with the proper protection, of course. Willing to take on the responsibilities of what the other sex will feel about you min this act and to be able to function throughout the entire sexual experience.

In any relationship, sex is just a small part in the whole of the relationship. There can be what are called "sexless" relationships and whether these are considered healthly, its up to thye parties involved in the relationship and no others business.

With this being said, "go forth young man" and venture out into that whole wide world of women. You are looking for them and they you. It takes two to tangle and get with it and enjoy the chase! ;D