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Post by wagnerr on Mar 26, 2006 19:58:00 GMT -5
I'm sure that some people will see this as a Christian vs. non-Christian debate. I don't. It's an effort vs. no-effort debate. I don't like the "God will give you exactly what he wants you to have" argument for the same reason I don't like the romantic myth of the one true soul mate. Some people are lucky enough to have things fall in their laps. For everyone else, goal-directed action is the way to go. You can be a Christian and still recognize that you need to put yourself out there, to work on your attractiveness, to take the risks of rejection and heartbreak. Yeah, dating does strike me as an effort vs. non-effort thing, like you said. One must put effort into anything in order to succeed at it. This does not garauntee success, but failure is less likely to happen. That being said, being a Christian, or a member of any religious group does help out a lot when attempting to forge a relationship. A relationship is built on values, people of the same religion are more likely to share the same values, and have the same expectations. In short, it may make compatibility a lot easier. I don't know about this "God will make it happen" stuff. I am a devout Christian myself, and i happen to believe that unless you put forth effort into something, God will not help you out. Thus, the action is required to make the effect happen. This goes for dating and relationships, too.  |
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 20:37:56 GMT -5
For the record, most people don't know what the words "Christian" and "faith" mean, even a lot of "Christians", and this is why it is so commonly misunderstood, because a lot of people who claim to be Christian don't live a Christian life (not specifically talking about this anymore so i'll shut up, im just refering to the comments made), so the examples they set are not Christian examples, so people get the wrong idea about Christianity. The common stereotypes of "judgemental" and "close-minded" are true for a lot of Christians, but not all, and in fact are agains't Christian teachings. Faith is the only way that I managed to meet who I am with. Without faith, I would have already spoiled what I am saving for her, and without praying, that silly little google search that ended up in me accidently clicking on the wrong link eventually led to me meeting the most amazing person I could ever dream of. The same thing for her as well. It's more than just "coincidence" when someone is so much like me that it seems impossible to be true, and we met in the same ways doing the same thing, yet different from most other people, and that every couple I know (a dozen or so) who has been the same way has had the most unique and happiest marriages I know of ... and to think that the Bible says this too.
My point is, even if there was no God, my faith in this "non-existant" God is what made all of this happen. And it is not a one-time or "lucky" event, things like this happen to anyone who is truely faithful at some point in their life ... otherwise what would be the point in being Christian? (Heaven? well, that's already a part of it, so that's not an alternative answer. Any other answers would say that you do not know what Christianity actually is .. its much deeper than most realize) I would not be who I am without it, and it isn't possible to explain with words how it makes me feel. I use to suffer from depression before I became so religious, and I was told by a health professional that I would not be overcomming it without treatment at my rate, and several friends told me I was insane for refusing treatment. I today have entirely overcome it though, with only faith and no physical object but a Bible and an open mind, and this doctor was so convinced otherwise that he tried to admit that when I saw him I was faking it, trying to make him think that I was better, but I wasn't faking.
But anyway, I didn't mean to get this off topic. I meant it entirely as a peice of advice from my own personal opinion from one Christian to another. I know for a fact that it does work and that "proof" only comes after the faith. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but don't go bashing on other things that you don't know about (and no, if you are not a faithful Christian, you don't know about it. The biggest part of Christianity is not learnable without experiencing it).
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Mar 26, 2006 20:55:59 GMT -5
yeah what he said. after I went on my date a women came up to me and told me she had been praying that id find a girl this women did not know me that well and probly didnt know I was single but she talked as if she knew things were going on in my life and they were I had reached an anxiety extreme prior to the date and then overcame it with prayer during the date. I found a girl and she is not out of the picture but im not sure if she will be a part of my life. we both are shy, never dated, and afraid to make a move but I forced myself to make a move and it was success for at least one great night.
in some ways I think if she will not be in my life she is a preparation for the one who will be or that her purpose was to bring me closer to God and or help me realize my potential .
its not in my hands and thats a good feeling.
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Post by shypsychologyguy on Mar 26, 2006 21:07:55 GMT -5
christianity is about a relationship with God through Christ alone.
religion is a relationship to God through works, hail marries, puting money in the offering plate, etc.
there are alot of religious non-christians claiming to be christians.
its not about denominations its about the word of God and what you do with it accept it or reject it.
a baptist who doesnt believe in the bible and doesnt accept christ as the one salvation is lost wheras say a catholic who beleives the bible and accepts christ is saved.
I as well have overcome alot that would surprise those that dont know. I went through high school alone most of the time and was bullyied throuout. I never once felt depression or thought of suicide and it was because I knew God would use those negative things in my life one day. my first year of college sucked and i was at an all time low.
then I found salvation through Christ and things have improved and im overcoming so much so fast and seeing how I am who i am because of what i experienced. that is what has really led me into Psychology (both secular and christian) I am intrested in helping others especially adolescents because I have a understanding that no book can capture of the realities some people face daily.
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 21:08:24 GMT -5
Indeed, but actually it's even more vague than that. Everyone is "religious", your religion is just what is the most important thing to you, whether it is God, cars, money, girls, family, friends, a spouce, fitting in with others, etc. A Christian in this case is someone who puts God before all else, because they believe that God created everything, so without God, nothing else that we enjoy would exist. But it even goes much much deeper than that, because a Christian believes that not everything we enjoy is a good thing. And even when not looking at Christianity but basic values and morals and even health, straying away from such pleasures is rewarding in an unspeakable way. The existance of what the Bible teaches literally cannot be proven with words, that is a test, so that only those who are honestly faithful will recieve their "proof".
But to get back on subject, the way I see it is either way there's no reason to not wait. Even if you are with someone, if that someone turns out to be the one you spend your life with ... then you have all your life to do things with them, even as simple as dating and kissing. It would probably help the relationship anyway because you run a lower risk of regreting something and you wont rush things. And if they are not the one you spend your life with, then once that relationship is over, you wouldn't have spoiled much of anything for the one who matters most. This is why I don't plan on even having my first kiss until engagement, or at least until we both feel confident enough that it will be happening. It makes you more anxious yes, but it pays off.
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Post by MrNice on Mar 26, 2006 21:31:45 GMT -5
if christianity as a concept religion and establishment produces few people that 'have faith' and millions of people that don't really have it, I would not think of it as very effective advice
I bet there is just as many 'enlightened' people in other religions and atheism and just as many disillusioned. So whats the difference?
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 21:36:26 GMT -5
But Christianity is not an establishment used to attempt to teach people about having faith. It's the other way around. These "establishments" such as churches and teachers came from the faith. Less and less people tend to have it over time as the media and fitting-in to society have become so big. (The Bible actually states that this is something that will happen in the 'future' (future from when it was written) as well as hundreds of other things anywhere from being as vague as anyone being able to predict them, to as detailed as names and particular events ... half of which have or are taking place) Besides, it is not the churches and teachers who are at fault. The majority of people who call themselves Christians but don't have faith either have no such "teachings" or just don't bother to read the Bible because they think it is something they can just call themselves. Most don't take into account that it is not a title, it is a way of living.
But like I said, this is getting off topic. This was my personal advice from one Christian to another, not a debate about beliefs. If you wanna do that save it for somewhere else.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Mar 26, 2006 21:46:36 GMT -5
Proverbs 27:1
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 21:50:35 GMT -5
Proverbs 27 has nothing to do with this subject. You can take a number of verses in the Bible and use them to try to contradict what other things are saying, but they won't make since because you aren't taking into account what is being said in that chapter. Proverbs 27:1 is talking about not putting off until tomorrow what you should do today ... such as procrastination, homework, stuff like that. Not relationships where we are talking about love. God is love. Take shyness itself for example. Proverbs 27:1 is saying to not let your shyness keep you from saying something now that you should. To not miss chances. But there is a big difference in taking a chance to meet someone, and doing it with the intention of getting with that person in a loving or even lustful relationship. I hope that isn't what you intended by saying that and if not then I apologize, but if so then that it is very insulting because the Bible teaches agains't that ... that is not what love is compared to the Bible, so Proberbs 27:1 would make no since in this case. To go as far as a loving relationship though is never something you should rush into. If that wasn't meant agains't me then I apologize lol, I'm just saying, if you aren't religious (and if you are then I apologize) then you're entering dangerous territory trying to quote the Bible agains't me, cus I'll tell you right now you wont win  Now can we please drop this subject? For the third time, it was my personal advice from one Christian to another, not to start a debate on our beliefs. |
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Post by MrNice on Mar 26, 2006 22:00:50 GMT -5
that is ironic
you keep saying this, but the teachings are available to everyone
I see many people reading the bible on the train
half this board is probably religious
yet somehow very few people attain 'honest faith' as you put it
what is the function of the church if not to teach and guide people?
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 22:18:39 GMT -5
What is ironic about it? He is Christian, and so am I, I am simply sharing advice. Look at the topic title.
The teachings are available to anyone, but that doesn't mean they follow them. A lot of people are Christians, I am simply saying that a lot of people call themselves Christians but don't bother to read the Bible (mostly people who don't even go to church but just say they are Christian because they think it is a good thing to call themselves). Reading the Bible doesn't make someone a Christian ... following it is what matters. It is not my opinion that matters, it is God's.
This proves to me that you either were not seeing what I was saying or you do not understand what Christianity really is, or maybe both. I never said churches aren't used to teach and guide people. That's exactly what they are used for, and to worship with other people as "one body".
Simply having these teachings though is not what makes someone a Christian, and this is not even about who is and isn't a Christian, that isn't for me or any man to decide. The point I was making is that it takes more than that. Christianity is not where you read a book and sit in church on Sunday's and listen to the preacher. That is simply the teachings, what matters is the way you apply your life to it. This is far more in depth than a lot of people realize ... for example ... when studying the Bible deep enough it can be noticed that premaritual sex is about as disrespectful (some even think it is more) to God as murder. If someone knows what there is to know and researches or whatever, you can be a Christian without ever walking into a church. My simply point was that a lot of people just go to the teachings thinking that that is all it takes. But what is the point of going to school? It is not simply to listen to what the teacher says and get grades. It is to learn and apply it to your life to make your life better, in that case, to get a good job. Christian beliefs, at the least, when applied in a similar way, increase hope and confidence, and experiments show that it is a fact that mental disorders are typically overcome easier with religious people.
Now I think shypsychologyguy would probably appreciate it if you all would drop this here and give him more advice if you have anything else to say, since that is the topic here.
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Post by Sweet Pea on Mar 26, 2006 22:19:11 GMT -5
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Post by scottydstno on Mar 26, 2006 22:25:29 GMT -5
This and Proverbs 3:5-6 changed my life, literally . It started my 'rebellion against myself'. This helped a good bit too www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=149And if you disagree with it ... just let it go ... I garauntee you no one will ever be able to convince me of anything otherwise, so unless if someone is interested in learning about it, then let's please not get this anymore off topic than it already is. |
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Post by MrNice on Mar 26, 2006 22:31:55 GMT -5
right, follow the bible
many people do follow the bible, yet remain frustrated and lonely and whatever else plagues them
let me guess your answer to that - they are not 'really' following the bible
so domineering
and very open minded
I hope that people who think this way do not come to power (God willing)
although it is happeneing somewhat in america
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Post by Sweet Pea on Mar 26, 2006 22:40:12 GMT -5
you're fairly new to this board, so maybe you don't realize that the only way to have a private discussion is by using the PM system. any posts to the board are an invitation to all board members to participate in discussion. it's really best not to bring something up on the board unless you're prepared to deal with an open discussion involving everyone.
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