Immigration Laws

[zaab]

sweetpea said:

hmmm...i wasn't under the impression that hispanics are considered to be a 'race'. i am concerned that the american owned corporations are dumping pollutants on to the mexican side of the border and basically saying 'eat that', paying low wages, providing poor work conditions, etc. mexican workers in those plants have horrible living conditions, often not even potable water. anything that's illegal to sell here gets dumped on the mexican market. mexicans get the short of the stick in so many ways by being the united states' neighbor. those same corporations exported those industrial jobs to mexico because they didn't want to pay american workers a living wage. now the american worker hates the mexican illegal immigrant who comes here looking for decent work and living conditions. kinda ironic. nobody is blaming the people in charge of this mess as usual. instead we fight amongst ourselves and blame each other seems like.

"Divide and conquer," one of the oldest tricks in the book. Politics 101.

[shytothebone]

sweetpea said:

hmmm...i wasn't under the impression that hispanics are considered to be a 'race'. i am concerned that the american owned corporations are dumping pollutants on to the mexican side of the border and basically saying 'eat that', paying low wages, providing poor work conditions, etc. mexican workers in those plants have horrible living conditions, often not even potable water. anything that's illegal to sell here gets dumped on the mexican market. mexicans get the short of the stick in so many ways by being the united states' neighbor. those same corporations exported those industrial jobs to mexico because they didn't want to pay american workers a living wage. now the american worker hates the mexican illegal immigrant who comes here looking for decent work and living conditions. kinda ironic. nobody is blaming the people in charge of this mess as usual. instead we fight amongst ourselves and blame each other seems like.

how can Hispanics not be a race just like whites, blacks, and Asians? It isn't the the America companies fault that that they exploit Mexico as a source of cheap labor. It is Mexico's own fault for not having regulations like a minimum wage and required insurance for companies with 20 or more employees. It is Mexico's problem for not being a country that cares about its own people, to give them an education so they know their rights and have skills to create good paying jobs. Also I don't think their is anything ironic about breaking the law.

[christfollower]

First. Hispanics as cheap labor, exploited by US companies.

I do not hear the hispanics complaining about working here. And I do not hear any complaints by Americans because the product the bought was cheaper. Supply and demand also goes with cost of business. If they can not make a product at a cost that someone will pay then they will not be in business at all.

Second. Hispanic as a race.

Are Americans a race? Are white/caucasion a race? Last I checked it was a very diversified people. I would refer to us more a mutts then a breed. That is what makes this country so great. Our diversity and yet under national stress we can come together on common ground to defend it.

Third. Taxes.

If they were legalized, then they would be paying taxes wouldn't they!

Fourth. The American Dream.

Funny, that the majority of peole who truly seek this are immagrants. Most Americans prefer to sit back and blame others for there lack of vision and drive to make a better life.

Final. Welfare.

You want government insurance to see a doctor or hospital, and complain that others are on welfare. How would you classify "government insurance".

Don't think I am not an American Patriot, if I wasn't - I would not be a disabled vet. The US fights for freedom for everyone, not a specific group.

[reddragon]

christfollower said:

First. Hispanics as cheap labor, exploited by US companies.

I do not hear the hispanics complaining about working here. And I do not hear any complaints by Americans because the product the bought was cheaper. Supply and demand also goes with cost of business. If they can not make a product at a cost that someone will pay then they will not be in business at all.

Second. Hispanic as a race.

Are Americans a race? Are white/caucasion a race? Last I checked it was a very diversified people. I would refer to us more a mutts then a breed. That is what makes this country so great. Our diversity and yet under national stress we can come together on common ground to defend it.

Third. Taxes.

If they were legalized, then they would be paying taxes wouldn't they!

Fourth. The American Dream.

Funny, that the majority of peole who truly seek this are immagrants. Most Americans prefer to sit back and blame others for there lack of vision and drive to make a better life.

Final. Welfare.

You want government insurance to see a doctor or hospital, and complain that others are on welfare. How would you classify "government insurance".

Don't think I am not an American Patriot, if I wasn't - I would not be a disabled vet. The US fights for freedom for everyone, not a specific group.

First - I love it when people try to make this argument. What you are saying is that american workers have too high a standard of living and that we should lower our own living standards so we can compete with the third world is that what you are saying?

Second - Last time I checked we were all one race, its called "THE HUMAN RACE".

Third - Doing low skilled jobs there is now way they can pay enough in taxes to pay back what they cost in Reduced wages for citizens, The cost of educating their children in the schools, where they incest on bi-lingual classes no less, The cost of emergency health care in the hospitals etc.

Fourth - You called it the American dream, not the anyone who can sneak across the border dream. The American dream cannot be based upon breaking the law to get here as the first step.

Final - I am against welfare for anyone. Legal, Illegal, native born, naturalized its all the same. End all welfare.

For what its worth I am also a disabled veteran so that card doesn't play with me.

[shytothebone]

sweetpea said:

hispanic means of Spanish-speaking Latin American or Spanish descent. hispanics are a diverse multi-racial group.

the american voters had the power to prevent the present state of affairs. we made it possible for american corporations to get away with their present practices. we made it possible for the US to engage in treaties that rob the mexican people and the american people both to the benefit of those corporations. we made all this possible by the extreme neglect of our duties as citizens.

if you were starving, would you break the law?

You can say that about whites to weather they are from England, France, Germany, America, from the south or the northwest, west coast, etc.

If I were starving I would break the law but I wouldn't go to another country to do it.

You cant blame the people of a country "the people of the US" for the situations and circumstance of another people of another country " the Mexican people". They are their own sovereign nation, they have their own rights as humans, they should have a government that should provide for them. They shouldn't be looking for hand outs and breaking laws of another country and expect the best country in the world to provide them with far more than what it provides its own people when they do break the law.

Let me tell you something about Americans. Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth. Americans don't want to see people starve to death. That is why the Americans give more money by donation than any other country in the world. Go to any 3rd world country you are going to find all kinds of food with the American flag on or or see an American there distributing it. Americans don't want people do die when they try to better themselves like the illegals do. They want them do find good jobs and to provide for their family's just do it in their own god damn country! If anyone doesn't understand what I mean by this revert to my first post.

Also I never remember voting on any federal legislations that call for trade treaties with other countries or allow corporations to find cheaper labor in other countries. That is because i cant vote on those issues. All I can do is lobby my senators and representatives to tell them what I think is right and wrong and when was the last time any politician gave a shit about right or wrong?

[sushiboat]

shytothebone said:

Let me tell you something about Americans. Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth.

I like to think good things about myself, but how can anyone take this seriously? How would you even begin to establish such a claim? Pure jingoism.

Americans don't want to see people starve to death. That is why the Americans give more money by donation than any other country in the world.

You said this once before regarding the Asian tsunami. I replied with the numbers to show that American per capita donations were far below what several other countries gave. Where are you getting your numbers this time? Or are you just repeating what Rush or some Fox News pundit spouted?

[shytothebone]

sushiboat said:

shytothebone said:

Let me tell you something about Americans. Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth.

I like to think good things about myself, but how can anyone take this seriously? How would you even begin to establish such a claim? Pure jingoism.

Americans don't want to see people starve to death. That is why the Americans give more money by donation than any other country in the world.

You said this once before regarding the Asian tsunami. I replied with the numbers to show that American per capita donations were far below what several other countries gave. Where are you getting your numbers this time? Or are you just repeating what Rush or some Fox News pundit spouted?

I said they gave the most and they do. Those numbers you stated and all numbers confirm that. Who gives a shit about per capita. As far as I know those countries with a better per capita could have a higher "average" standard of living.

About your jingoism claim. Maybe I am so what? Does that make me a bad person?

[sushiboat]

shytothebone said:

sushiboat said:

I like to think good things about myself, but how can anyone take this seriously? How would you even begin to establish such a claim? Pure jingoism.


You said this once before regarding the Asian tsunami. I replied with the numbers to show that American per capita donations were far below what several other countries gave. Where are you getting your numbers this time? Or are you just repeating what Rush or some Fox News pundit spouted?

I said they gave the most and they do. Those numbers you stated and all numbers confirm that. Who gives a shit about per capita. As far as I know those countries with a better per capita could have a higher "average" standard of living.

The United States is the wealthiest country in the world, so there is no out. If we don't care about adjusting for the number of people, why not compare how much you gave with the sum of what all the people of the rest of the world gave? By that standard, you are the stingiest and meanest person in the world. Shame on you!

About your jingoism claim. Maybe I am so what? Does that make me a bad person?

You were laying out what you claimed to be facts – observable reality. When it turns out that one of your "facts" is just wishful thinking and boasting, that bodes ill for any conclusions that depend on that fact. No matter what your political objective is, having a good understanding of reality will help you.

Couldn't you simply say that Americans are a very kind and very loving people? I wholeheartedly agree with that. What do you gain from believing that Americans are the absolute #1 in kindness and love – apart from a reputation as an ugly American?

[christfollower]

First - I love it when people try to make this argument. What you are saying is that american workers have too high a standard of living and that we should lower our own living standards so we can compete with the third world is that what you are saying?

I said nothing about lowering our standards of living, What I said is no one here complains that we are able to purchase products here in the states cheap due to the immagrants. Take a house for example. An employer who is paying $20 to $30 an hour per American employee has a couple dozen workers working 4 to 6 months on a home "depending on size" will price the house higher than the employer that used immagrants at half or less than half the cost in labor. The labor cost will make a big difference in the price of the house. If the two were in seprate sudivisions on the same street. Which will sell first. the House at $155,000 or the one for 270,000? Based on the theory of raising the price so Americans would do the job. My father was a contactor in Texas and that is close to the average hourly pay for Americans and Immagrants. And that would the difference in price. Why do you think cars cost so much. Look at the union in GM and FORD were the person starting a job there with no experience earns around $16 to $20 an hour. Thats starting pay. At restaurants, should they pay the employees $15 to $25 an hour? Guess that Whopper value meal will cost more than $5.00 to $6.00? You can argue that immagrants are taking our jobs here in America, but haow many Americans refuse to buy products made by the cheaper labor. Restaurants are still beaming with business, people are still bying processed meats, housing industry is still very strong, we are driving on the roads created or maintianed by immagrants. The fact remains until American stop buying these products from employeers that hire the immagrants then there will always be a problem.

[christfollower]

Fourth - You called it the American dream, not the anyone who can sneak across the border dream. The American dream cannot be based upon breaking the law to get here as the first step.

Sorry, did not realize that you were an American Indian. My appologies.

[wagnerr]

sushiboat said:

shytothebone said:

Let me tell you something about Americans. Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth.

I like to think good things about myself, but how can anyone take this seriously? How would you even begin to establish such a claim? Pure jingoism.

Americans don't want to see people starve to death. That is why the Americans give more money by donation than any other country in the world.

You said this once before regarding the Asian tsunami. I replied with the numbers to show that American per capita donations were far below what several other countries gave. Where are you getting your numbers this time? Or are you just repeating what Rush or some Fox News pundit spouted?

Much can be said for the idea that Americans coined the term 'philanthropy.'


Anyway, i don't think you can point to the per capita donations of a country and figure that they're less caring or generous than another. That's silly.

[sushiboat]

wagnerr said:

Anyway, i don't think you can point to the per capita donations of a country and figure that they're less caring or generous than another. That's silly.

I have never done that. Others were the ones to point to American donations as a metric for caring and generosity, in order to claim that Americans are the most caring and most generous in the world. My point is that even when I go along with their assumption, they are wrong about the numbers. Very sloppy!

[christfollower]

Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth.

Really, you must not watch any news channel. Look around, at a march a group of veterans participated, the so called peace activist threw rocks and bottles at them. Real loving.

How many minorities are beaten due to racial hatred. Real Loving

yeah, real loving!

[Buzzz]

We talked about this issue in my poli sci class today, and here's a somewhat rational apporach that I myself came up with: Illegals who have children born in the US (jus soli citizenship) get special guest worker provisions that let them stay here and work towards citizenship. Other illegals will not be hunted down and rounded up Gestapo-style, but if it comes to the authorities' attention that you are an illegal immigrant, you get the boot. Of course I would increase border security as well, but that wasn't part of the question.

I don't necessarily agree with this approach- the assignment was to find a politically viable solution that would win votes for a presidential candidate. It's not airtight, but then, nothing in politics is airtight. My prof did like it though.

christfollower said:

Americans are the most compassionate loving people on earth.

Really, you must not watch any news channel. Look around, at a march a group of veterans participated, the so called peace activist threw rocks and bottles at them. Real loving.

Are you sure it was peace activists and not Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps? His group does the same thing at military funerals and marches.

[reddragon]

christfollower said:

Fourth - You called it the American dream, not the anyone who can sneak across the border dream. The American dream cannot be based upon breaking the law to get here as the first step.

Sorry, did not realize that you were an American Indian. My appologies.

Well I can't accept on behalf of American Indians however I believe your statement was an Insult to at least two other groups.

1.) The millions of African Americans who's ancestors were brought to this country as slaves and had no choice to come.

2.) The millions of Immigrants who came to this country legally and within the law without breaking it.