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Post by skyhint on May 3, 2006 15:29:11 GMT -5
Twice, the people there seem easy going. Its mexico! its not a rigid place. Read between the lines, and you'll see the country as what it is, a poor backward place of oppression, one that only now is emerging from the oppressive regulatory statutes of the PRI, to adjust to another oppression in the form of the PAN. Say you were to fly a foriegn flag in mexico, you would at least get a fine for doing so. More, due to the police corruption, you may also be hauled off to jail because you are an indirect threat to the 'public saftey' and pay even heavier 'fines' as a result. The law might say one thing; i care not. Look at what occurs there, and you'll get a sense of the practicality of it all. And it has nothing to do with the majority of the people at all. I'm not attacking them, only the Mexican political traditions.  Willing to prove it to me? |
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Post by shytothebone on May 3, 2006 17:27:28 GMT -5
Building a wall is a ridiculous solution! I thought the point of stopping Mexican immigration was to help the economy, not spend millions or billions (I have no idea how much a wall would cost, but I know it would be a huge amount of money) of U.S. dollars. And would a wall really keep Mexicans out? I don't think so. Yeah a wall isn't going to do any good. That is why they call them wetbacks. You cant build a wall across water can you? lol |
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Post by christfollower on May 6, 2006 3:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah a wall isn't going to do any good. That is why they call them wetbacks. You cant build a wall across water can you? lol Why would the wall have to be in the water, just place it on our side of the Rio Grande. Would an electrified chain link fence be a high cost? Doesn't our politicains spend hunderds of millions of dollars in projects and studies that do not help America? Move the money to protect our borders. Would it cost more than repaving milllions of miles of highways and interstates each year? This could be a way to help reduce unemployement in America. |
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Post by shytothebone on May 6, 2006 6:00:08 GMT -5
Yeah a wall isn't going to do any good. That is why they call them wetbacks. You cant build a wall across water can you? lol Why would the wall have to be in the water, just place it on our side of the Rio Grande. Would an electrified chain link fence be a high cost? Doesn't our politicains spend hunderds of millions of dollars in projects and studies that do not help America? Move the money to protect our borders. Would it cost more than repaving milllions of miles of highways and interstates each year? This could be a way to help reduce unemployement in America. You didnt get it did you? Its a joke. Read it again and see if you understand it. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on May 6, 2006 6:35:00 GMT -5
 We need some of these boys lined up along the border to take out anyone trying to get across. Hmmm I've been wondering why my neighbors had been gone. Guess they joined the usrsf |
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Post by christfollower on May 6, 2006 21:33:55 GMT -5
Sorry, still don't get the joke - guess I am a little slow on this one.
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Post by wagnerr on May 11, 2006 13:29:50 GMT -5
Read between the lines, and you'll see the country as what it is, a poor backward place of oppression, one that only now is emerging from the oppressive regulatory statutes of the PRI, to adjust to another oppression in the form of the PAN. Say you were to fly a foriegn flag in mexico, you would at least get a fine for doing so. More, due to the police corruption, you may also be hauled off to jail because you are an indirect threat to the 'public saftey' and pay even heavier 'fines' as a result. The law might say one thing; i care not. Look at what occurs there, and you'll get a sense of the practicality of it all. And it has nothing to do with the majority of the people at all. I'm not attacking them, only the Mexican political traditions. Willing to prove it to me? Are you willing to travel with me to Mexico and see the things i saw? Are you willing to learn Spanish and read all the books and articles i did? Are you willing to put yourself into a completely foriegn and different philosophical frame of mind, one that revolves around Counter-Reformation doctrines and the resistance to them? Because if you're not, then there's really no way i can prove any of my points to you.  |
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Post by wagnerr on May 11, 2006 13:38:37 GMT -5
Yeah a wall isn't going to do any good. That is why they call them wetbacks. You cant build a wall across water can you? lol Why would the wall have to be in the water, just place it on our side of the Rio Grande. Would an electrified chain link fence be a high cost? Doesn't our politicains spend hunderds of millions of dollars in projects and studies that do not help America? Move the money to protect our borders. Would it cost more than repaving milllions of miles of highways and interstates each year? This could be a way to help reduce unemployement in America. Maybe in the short run it might reduce some unemployment, but i don't this is a good long term solution. I'm a little mixed on all this illegal immigration discussion going on here, but i do believe that if one wishes to live in a country, any country, you should observe its laws and adapt to the foriegn way of life there, without eliminating who you are as a person and your own heritage. I'm all in favor or securing our national borders, but in my opinion, i think it's more important to stave off the drug cartel activity smuggling drugs into our country. Drug abuse is still a very serious problem in the world, and i don't think it'll end until the supplies for drugs coming from abraod are curbed and brought to a halt. I like the Hispanics and thei culture, but i also don't want to see a bunch of foreigners coming into the US and waving foreign flags all over the place, all the while sucking off our own economy in so many ways. Let their apathy and disrespect for authority stay with them in Latin America; don't bring it here. |
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Post by MrNice on May 11, 2006 18:34:36 GMT -5
Russ why do you think are you entitled to the benefis of this country and they are not?
Personally, I am also scared of illegal immigration, but I have this voice that tells me that its a mere chance that I am on this side of the border and have had the opportunities that I had. Did you see the movie day after tomorrow? As ridiculous as it is, how would you expect the mexicans to react if some disaster happened to US and people started immigrating? How would you feel if they said 'we don't want you here - its not our fault'?
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Post by christfollower on May 12, 2006 3:03:18 GMT -5
First let me say that you can not base life off of a hollywood science fiction movie.
Second - in the movie the Mexican govenment blocked the border until the US bought them off.
Third - Why should the US continue to help a nation or people of a nation that does not respect our sovereignty or our laws. A people that say that they did not cross the borders - the borders crossed them. Believing that the Southeast belongs to Mexico anyways.
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Post by GreenFerret on May 12, 2006 21:02:06 GMT -5
Russ why do you think are you entitled to the benefis of this country and they are not? Personally, I am also scared of illegal immigration, but I have this voice that tells me that its a mere chance that I am on this side of the border and have had the opportunities that I had. Did you see the movie day after tomorrow? As ridiculous as it is, how would you expect the mexicans to react if some disaster happened to US and people started immigrating? How would you feel if they said 'we don't want you here - its not our fault'? I pretty much agree with this. That's what I keep thinking: the only reason I have the privelege of living here instead of there is by right of birth--and I don't think that's a very, well, "American" ideal. And what do the decisions of the Mexican government have to do with us? If they're opressive and corrupt, I don't see how then Mexicans coming to this country should face oppression from the US government (ie not being allowed to fly foreign flags or demonstrate publicly) because they're "used to it" or something. So they don't have respect for authority here. Most Americans don't have a lot of respect for authority; why should Mexicans? Are they no better than guests in "our" land, that they should cower before our government in deference to the tolerence their American neighbors have condescended to bestow upon them? Also, Christfollower, to your third point, I don't see your point... Some Southerners in the US still believe that the south should be its own country--should the federal government abandon Georgia, the Carolinas, and the others until every last person is a model citizen? People don't have to believe what we feel like they should believe in order to have rights--whether it's about land, or freedom of expression, or the right to live and work in this country. I don't know the full impact of illegal immigration on the US or all of the possible results of an open or totally closed off border, and I'm not about to do all the research. I wonder if it would make sense to apply the same sort of idea to Mexican immigrants as to Cuban refugees: if they can make it past the border checkpoints, etc, then they're here to stay if they want to. If it's a problem that they're sending a lot of money home and thus taking it away from the economy here, maybe there could be incentives for entire families to come and live here, instead of just a member or two. If the illegals weren't illegal, they'd have to pay taxes, etc, like anyone else--I think that's fair for all involved. I do think the immigrants should have to learn English, despite the lack of an official American tongue; but the studies I've read about say that the second generation is gemerally fluent either exclusively in English or in both English and Spanish, anyway. On the other hand, I believe Spanish should probably be taught to English-speaking Americans from an early age. Even if you never use it, there's no way it can hurt you to know two languages--especially one as potentially useful as Spanish. I don't know all the facts on this issue so I'm not dead-set on anything... it's confusing really. |
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Post by zaab on May 12, 2006 22:49:05 GMT -5
"...Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I'm sure they meant only those lovely white European huddled masses, not the south of the border variety. That's probably somewhere in the fine print on the Statue of Liberty. Yeah well, up with the wall! Only my ancestors were deserving enough to come here. Screw the rest!
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Post by skyhint on May 12, 2006 23:37:28 GMT -5
Willing to prove it to me? Are you willing to travel with me to Mexico and see the things i saw? Are you willing to learn Spanish and read all the books and articles i did? Are you willing to put yourself into a completely foriegn and different philosophical frame of mind, one that revolves around Counter-Reformation doctrines and the resistance to them? Because if you're not, then there's really no way i can prove any of my points to you. I'm sure ithat if some one tried to stop the patriotic Americans from flying their flag they would make some noise about it. So lets see some news articles that warn travellers. |
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Post by christfollower on May 13, 2006 1:48:28 GMT -5
Zaab - you need to look further into the "european masses" that came over. My ancestors made that journey with a price of indentured servantude to come to America. They landed on ellis island and reported/recorded themselves with the government as did the majority of europeans fleeing not just oppression but death for their beliefs. The so called american dream was never seen till many generations after. I am not saying to completely close the borders and no one else in, but to force the immagrants to register and enter legally by respecting the law.
Is it ok for the farmers / ranchers living on and around the border to be threatend by illegals entering the US and is it alright for those farmers / ranchers to pay thousands of dollars in repairs to their property due to illegals crossing private property and trashing those properties. One rancher "on CNN" listed over $40,000 in damage to his property last year alone! If it doesn't affect you then why care.
Green Ferret - you mention the illegals paying taxes? This is funny, the majority of hispanics do not pay taxes - doesn't matter if they are legal or illegal. When you claim 8 to 12 dependents on your W2, taxes are not taken out of their checks, Why would they stop? The city I live in 10 years ago was mixed between white and black people working in the poultry industry, the city is now 90% poor hispanics that have taken the jobs of Americans that were working in those plants. It just so happens that those companies can make a bigger profit by hiring illegals to work. It is not the pay that is cheaper - it is the health benifits. Also these companies stop pay increases "pay raise" because they can hire an illegal to do the same job at a little lower pay rate. There is a town less than 50 miles from mine - had a 3% hispanic population, the local carpey factory has hired illegal workers from mexico and texas to come work for them - for the same reason above. The town is now 50% hispanic. The city I live in, the the hispanic children do not no english, they taught my daughter spanish instead of teaching english due to it was cheaper, they also make up 97% of the school and the statisics show that over 93% of those students are on the food program. If you notice the parents dropping their kids off or showing up for functions, drive brand new expiditions and tahoes, and their children wearing new clothes. When I go to the grocery store the majority of the hipsanics buy their food with food stamps - via the new card. The american citizens raised in the area "white and black" are paying for them to eat and paying for their health care while we struggle. Is this right? The crime rate in my city has more than trippled in the last 10 years - is this a coincidence, I do not hink so, since neighboring cities crime rate has risen slightly or dropped. The illegal immagrants refuse to get car insurance which causes another large burden on those that keep insurance. I was hit twice last year by illegals who had no insurance - I have a friend that had to file bankruptcy due to an illegal causing a wreck that put my friend in intensive care for over 5 months, his insurance company was only obligated to pay $100,000 of a $750,000 hospital bill. Is this alright?
Sure you can argue that there are american citizens who are the same way. We are stuck with those people, but do we have to raise the percentage of those people. Why do american citizens have less rights to live here and provide for their families than the illegals? It is sad what the illegals come from, that their government oppresses them. If the illegals can march and demand rights in america, then why can they not do the same in their own country. Why should the US reform to meet their needs when they "the illegals" refuse to do anything about their situation in their own homeland? If the US gives amnesty to the illegals, we will be in the same situation in another 10 years. Except the numbers will be even larger.
Ok, I opened pandoras box.
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Post by zaab on May 13, 2006 3:17:54 GMT -5
Zaab - you need to look further into the "european masses" that came over. My ancestors made that journey with a price of indentured servantude to come to America. They landed on ellis island and reported/recorded themselves with the government as did the majority of europeans fleeing not just oppression but death for their beliefs. The so called american dream was never seen till many generations after. I am not saying to completely close the borders and no one else in, but to force the immagrants to register and enter legally by respecting the law. Is it ok for the farmers / ranchers living on and around the border to be threatend by illegals entering the US and is it alright for those farmers / ranchers to pay thousands of dollars in repairs to their property due to illegals crossing private property and trashing those properties. One rancher "on CNN" listed over $40,000 in damage to his property last year alone! If it doesn't affect you then why care. So if there were no legal means to seek refuge in a country that provided a better life for your ancestors, they would have taken their lumps in the oppressive nation just to be good citizens? I have my doubts. And I'm not saying open up the floodgates to immigration. I'm just trying to point out the hyprocisy in the idea that it was somehow noble when our ancestors fled their oppression and when the Mexicans try to do the same it is somehow sinister. They're clearly the victims in all of this as someone else wisely noted way back in the thread (and I'm not saying they're the only victims either). I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were raising a hungry family and I saw an opportunity across the border, I could only hope that I had the guts to take the risk these people are taking. And I'm not a history buff, but I do know that almost without fail, the new wave of immigrants were looked at with disgust and scorn. They were relegated to the dregs of society and given the worst work available. The new wave is always thought to have a corrupting influence on society to the point of tearing it down. It is the same old story over and over again and its sad to see that we never learn our lesson from it and keep on blaming the wrong people for society's ills. |
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