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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 16:10:42 GMT -5
No, this was before Fred, this was around the beginning of the war. The peace activist went to protest the march, and when the vets went by, the got pellted with rock and bottles.
Still, that was only one of many marches by different organizations that turned into violence. Last year the KKK was to have a march thru Toledo Ohio ", I do not agree with anything that the KKK stands for, but the black community, several hours before the march started to protest by going into neighbor hoods looting and breaking things - they even burned a building down. I understood their protest, but did not act in love did they.
As far as Fred and his group, I was outraged by the lack of respect for fellow Americans or even fellow humans. I do not care what a person has done, making comments like his at a funerals is horrifing. Still this makes another example on how loving and compassionate we are.
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 16:18:58 GMT -5
There was no insult made. The idea of the "Amercan Dream" is for those who do not live here. They come here trying to get a better life. I help in a local homeless shelter in the ghetto. There are many immgrants that live there and have expressed that the living conditions in our ghetto are better than where they came from. Our country was founded on immagrants coming here. "Bring us your weak, your tired, your poor" ring a bell? That is what the Statue of Liberty represents. As far as the slavery issue - that has no part of this debate. If you want to discuss that - open a new thread. We a talking about immagration not forced slavery.
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Post by reddragon on Mar 29, 2006 16:25:55 GMT -5
I said nothing about lowering our standards of living, What I said is no one here complains that we are able to purchase products here in the states cheap due to the immagrants. Take a house for example. An employer who is paying $20 to $30 an hour per American employee has a couple dozen workers working 4 to 6 months on a home "depending on size" will price the house higher than the employer that used immagrants at half or less than half the cost in labor. The labor cost will make a big difference in the price of the house. If the two were in seprate sudivisions on the same street. Which will sell first. the House at $155,000 or the one for 270,000? Based on the theory of raising the price so Americans would do the job. My father was a contactor in Texas and that is close to the average hourly pay for Americans and Immagrants. And that would the difference in price. Why do you think cars cost so much. Look at the union in GM and FORD were the person starting a job there with no experience earns around $16 to $20 an hour. Thats starting pay. At restaurants, should they pay the employees $15 to $25 an hour? Guess that Whopper value meal will cost more than $5.00 to $6.00? You can argue that immagrants are taking our jobs here in America, but haow many Americans refuse to buy products made by the cheaper labor. Restaurants are still beaming with business, people are still bying processed meats, housing industry is still very strong, we are driving on the roads created or maintianed by immagrants. The fact remains until American stop buying these products from employeers that hire the immagrants then there will always be a problem. My point is what about the hidden cost of this Illegal labor? Why do you think my property taxes are so high, it because of all the children of illegals in the schools. The ones whose parents incest that they not only be taught but in there native language to boot because they refuse to learn English themselves. Why is health care so expensive? How about all the illegals without health insurance crowding all the emergency rooms and then skip out without paying their tab. And lets not forget that one quarter of our prisons are filled with illegals. How much do you think it cost to feed, house and cloth all of them. Just imagine how much lower my tax bill would be without these expenses.  |
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Post by reddragon on Mar 29, 2006 16:32:33 GMT -5
The idea of the "Amercan Dream" is for those who do not live here. Have you ever heard the term "charity begins at home"? We need to take care of our own people, you know the Weak, the Tired, the Poor in our own nation, at least the ones here legally not the criminals. |
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 16:34:49 GMT -5
ok first please learn to spell insist, as you are spelling it incest wich is a sick sexual act. You have done this twice so far.
Hoe many Citizens do the same thing. Last year there were over 2 million people that filled for bankruptcy. How many skip out on credit card payments, doctor bills, car payments, house payments, electricity, water, gas for home and drive offs at the pumps. How many citizens are on welfare due to being lazy. The other 3/4 in prisons are citizens - wow, should all those people be deported or kicked out too.
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 16:38:12 GMT -5
Yes we do , but that is not the immagrants fault, is or own government and also because there are those that refuse help for what ever reason.
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Post by reddragon on Mar 29, 2006 16:47:17 GMT -5
Hoe many Citizens do the same thing. Last year there were over 2 million people that filled for bankruptcy. How many skip out on credit card payments, doctor bills, car payments, house payments, electricity, water, gas for home and drive offs at the pumps. How many citizens are on welfare due to being lazy. The other 3/4 in prisons are citizens - wow, should all those people be deported or kicked out too. Well I think you are confusing two separate issues. The illegals are committing a crime just by being here, the citizen has the right to be here. First once you deport all the illegals there should be plenty of room in the prisons for those citizens who break the law. |
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 16:54:51 GMT -5
Sure, I agree that they are, but do you want to pay to have all illegals removed? can it be done with out breaking the bank? or would it be better to give them work permits and tax them "maybe at a higher tax rate"? Deportation is not the answer due to the ineffectiveness of our government to handle things like this before it gets out of hand. There are to many here illegally now to effectivly remove with out it placing a bigger burden on the citizens.
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Post by reddragon on Mar 29, 2006 17:25:55 GMT -5
Sure, I agree that they are, but do you want to pay to have all illegals removed? can it be done with out breaking the bank? or would it be better to give them work permits and tax them "maybe at a higher tax rate"? Deportation is not the answer due to the ineffectiveness of our government to handle things like this before it gets out of hand. There are to many here illegally now to effectivly remove with out it placing a bigger burden on the citizens. christfollower, You never answered my earlier question. What about all the cost and burdens that illegals cause us now? and what do you want to do about it? |
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 17:37:42 GMT -5
Yes I did - Make them pay taxes - maybe at a higher rate by giving them work permits.
Read all the post - don't scan, made that mistake to many times already in the past.
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Post by reddragon on Mar 29, 2006 17:46:54 GMT -5
Yes I did - Make them pay taxes - maybe at a higher rate by giving them work permits. Read all the post - don't scan, made that mistake to many times already in the past. Hey I do read all the post, some of them are just not worth remembering. ;D Anyway what I meant was as you have stated 2 Million people filed for bankruptcy, don't pay their taxes and skip out on their medical bills. If we cant collect from our own citizens how are we going to get money out of illegals who don't feel like paying up? |
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Post by christfollower on Mar 29, 2006 19:37:47 GMT -5
Do you believe the majority will not pay the taxes?
If they do not pay the work visa is revoked and since we know where they are, they can be deported at that time.
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Apr 18, 2006 16:30:24 GMT -5
It's not like illegal immigrants don't pay any taxes. Income taxes are taken from thier salaries, and when they buy things they have to pay sales taxes. They already make so little money, I think they are contributing enough. There might be hidden costs to having them in the country, but I don't see how anyone can deny that American Citizens benefit from their cheap labor.
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Apr 18, 2006 16:34:42 GMT -5
reddragon: You said, "how are we going to get money out of our illegals who don't feel like paying up?" This makes it sound like they are lazy and greedy people, but would you "pay up" if you had to survive on a salary lower than the minimum wage?
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Post by wagnerr on Apr 18, 2006 16:56:56 GMT -5
It's not like illegal immigrants don't pay any taxes. Income taxes are taken from thier salaries, and when they buy things they have to pay sales taxes. They already make so little money, I think they are contributing enough. There might be hidden costs to having them in the country, but I don't see how anyone can deny that American Citizens benefit from their cheap labor. Except that a lot of illegal immigrants who do work here in the US get paid in cash, and not in any traceable form of income for the govt to track down. They might pay sales taxes and other expenses, however. The American economy does benefit from having their cheap labor, but i do not think Americans benefit from it. If not for their cheap labor, we might pay more for goods? So what? |
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