|
Post by Outcast on Dec 26, 2007 18:50:25 GMT -5
And if I made the mistake of mentioning something to my friend that I should have kept my mouth shut about--something that was basically an unofficial secret--I would feel bad for betraying the trust of the one person and for making the other friend feel foolish. The last thing I'd be concerned about was how wronged *I* felt by my friend's negative reaction. Good point. I guess I didn't see it that way. That i made the other friend feel foolish. I know i can really be oversensitive. So i am not sure most of the time, that i could already be doing something wrong in how i deal with some people. I think that's why i wanted to ask other people's viewpoint about it. I also asked some people here i know if there was anything I did wrong in that scenario. They told me i did nothing wrong, even my brother. They didn't even see my cool off remark as an attack against her. When you first described this situation, you said you were joking with her when you told her to ask your brother. But in this new retelling, you describe it as having "referred her to the one really concerned," which is an interesting switch--not that it really makes a difference. It really doesn't matter why she wanted to talk to the girlfriend. Maybe she WAS "going through the back door," but what you did was hold that door open for her, and then let it shut in her face. It really wasn't my intention to "open the door and shut it in her face." And it's not really a retelling, I did referred her to my brother in a jokingly manner. But as you said, it really makes no difference right. Maybe that's why i didn't mention it was done in a jokingly manner again. The point was,i was trying to refer her to my brother. I think it does matter though, why she wanted to talk to my brother's girlfriend. If there was any bad intention in it, I think it would really matter then. But that idea didn't even occur to me during our chat. It was only after a lot of thinking, that it dawned upon me. So ok, i'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, in which case, it wouldn't really matter why she wanted to talk to her. Are you saying that it would have been alright for you to tell her she was pissing you off because she told you you were pissing her off? I don't see where you got that, unless you consider all expressions of anger as slights in themselves. I think i already mentioned in my last post that i thought it was wrong so i didn't do it. A part of me felt like i should have done it afterwards though, but i still thought it was wrong. (Hey,i'm only human. ) About the "cool off" remark, I'm not saying you were literally trying to blame her; just that it sort of adds insult to injury. Hmmm. I'm still not sure how it could have been an added insult. She was the one who was upset. I just thought it would be better if she cooled off a bit. If both of us were angry at each other, then it would have been more appropriate for me to say that WE should cool off a bit. At the time,I just couldn't think of what else to say. He cut her off basically only because her *sister* did something really nasty...? Yes. Sad but true. But i guess your next advice could have been the reason behind it too. You are under no obligation to be friends with people you don't actively like, period. You're allowed to be biased against being friends with unpleasant people. This "bias" is based on knowledge of a person's individual character. There's no need to be nasty to them, but there's no point in being friends with them. You SHOULD avoid people who make you feel bad on a regular basis! The point of friends is that you get to choose the kind of people you surround yourself with. You shouldn't be friends with anyone our of charity, pity, or self-castigation. "I dunno, I just don't like her much" is as good a reason to end a friendship as "she ran over my dog on purpose." Your friends should ideally be people you select because you're just that good together--not because they aren't awful enough to turned away. Hmmm, I have to really think about this. But it does sound right. And I guess it really wouldn't be fair for the other person if you have this bias thing going. But then again, i think we shouldn't really be biased in the first place though. I'm not sure. Sometimes i think they really just want to be friends, they keep on coming back. So it's hard for me just to ignore them. That would be nasty.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 26, 2007 9:40:23 GMT -5
I don't think I agree. She might be a thoroughly unpleasant person generally, but what she asked sounds to me like a normal follow-up question after you told her where your brother's GF was, Outcast. If you didn't want to talk about it, or knew that your brother wouldn't want you to discuss it with this girl, you shouldn't have brought it up. And once you did, it's your own fault if she gets angry because you're deliberately dodging her questions--especially by teasing her further when she already asked you once to stop. She may be manipulative or bitchy for the other reasons you've mentioned, but in this case, I don't see how she did anything wrong. You already know it was wrong of you to bring up the girlfriend subject at all, and once that happened you were inevitably going to have to accept responsibility for pissing her off, she had reason to be mad, and you should have seen it coming, and not been "shocked." Ok I admit that it was really poor choice to bring that topic about my brother's GF. Sometimes i really suck at idle chitchat and everyday conversations with other people. When people ask me "What's new?" I can barely think of anything to talk about. So, what if it's the other way around? And I'm the one who is asking all the questions. What if she accidentally brought up a topic about something that she would rather not talk about? And it really got me going or interested. I start asking questions, she doesn't answer me and avoids my questions. Can I then get angry at her, and say things like "you're pissing me off."? Would she accept that? And feel that she had that coming? Would it really be ok, for a friend of yours to get pissed off like that just because you didn't want to answer her questions? Wouldn't you expect a friend to respect your decision to stay quiet about the matter? Or in my case, referred her to the one really concerned, like my brother? In the first place, why would she want to talk to my brother's GF when they have been backbiting her all this time? And "how" can she talk to my brother's GF , when she can't even ask my brother for that information? Would you want a friend, who can't talk to you, ask another friend of yours about some information about your boyfriend? Isn't it like going through a back door or something like that? The "maybe you just need to cool off a bit" comment put the blame on her, when the situation was a direct result of your mistake. So yes, I do think you were being over-sensitive; I can also admit to being over sensitive at times, and so i often try to control my emotions and think first before i talk back. At that time, after being told "Your pissing me off." and then a "I got to go." I really didn't know what to say or how to react. With the piss me off, it's natural for me to deduce that she was mad. Mad enough to just walk away and leave me hanging. I already told you i was shocked by her reaction hence i didn't realize what i did wrong. I can only think " a cool off" statement was appropriate since i felt she was so angry. If its ok for her say that those things because she was mad, then, it could have been ok for me to tell her the very same thing as well. But it's my belief, that it is wrong for me to do so. Wrong for me to get angry. So i just tried to let it go, and respond in a nice way. I really didn't think i was trying to blame her for anything. On the other hand, it's really strange that your brother has had to cut contact with this girl because she and her family are manipulative and nasty to his girlfriend Well, my brother has been really nice to her and her family. He really didn't mind them saying nasty things to his GF. He could care less of their opinions. What really made him draw the line was when a sister of hers, whom he entrusted a secret with, revealed that very secret, to one of his enemies. I guess, that was when he finally got fed up and decided he would no longer tolerate anymore of their manipulative ways. and you think she's manipulative, and apparently you don't even get along with her. Sometimes if people are really unpleasant generally, you can become oversensitive to the normal things they say, because you know their personality, and you've come to expect it from them. And if that's the case, the relationship's sorta been corrupted to the point where you have to ask yourself, why are you still friends with this person? You know from personal experience and your brother's testimony that she's judgmental and spiteful; so what's the point? Yes, I agree with you on that one. Generally, it was my belief and conviction to not try and judge people. Before, even though it seemed as if they were taking advantage of me. I tolerated it. I didn't really want to believe that they were like that. But some of my family members found out about it and asked me time and again, why am i tolerating them? Why am i letting them do all those things to me? It was that time, that i was trying to learn and accept people ,the good, and the bad. I believed everyone has their own faults. I believed that in order for me to accept my own faults, i had to learn and accept the faults of others first. It was really hard. But then, soon all those advice from concerned relatives began to sink in. And before i knew it, i have developed a somewhat biased and negative view of these people. I still try to fight it though. So what you're saying is true, that it is kinda hard staying friends with them, when i have developed that biased view already. But i think it would be worse if i try and cut them off completely. So i still don't. Recently, this "friend" of mine sent me a message. A Merry Christmas greeting message. And I replied "Thanks. Merry Christmas too." It's not hard for me to forgive them and let go of things they did in the past. I can be nice to them, if they are friendly enough to greet me again. What is troubling me though, is that sometimes i may still have that biased view of them. Because i am still being careful.Often times avoiding them. Minimizing the time i spend with them. I think this is largely in part due to some advice i have been given to avoid people that seem wrong to me or makes me feel sad or wrong. This advice was given to me in the hope of making me a more positive person. Ok. I think I'll stop for now.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 24, 2007 22:36:20 GMT -5
I could have sworn Daffodil said something about her being a bit controlling. (Wonder what happened to it?) Ok. Here's the history between her and my brother. My brother was courting her in the past, she turned him down numerous times but still they had become good friends. It was during this time, that my brother introduce me to her and her family. My brother had earlier realized that she and her sisters were a bit manipulative with people. And he warned me about them. It took me some time before i learned what he was talking about. I saw it sometimes as taking advantage of people. But hey, i didn't want to make any final judgments about them so i would often dismiss these things off. Eventually, my brother had gotten a new girlfriend. Of course being friends at that time, he introduced his new girlfriend to her and her family.(That's because were sort of like neighbors. ) Well, she and her family didn't like his new girlfriend and would say all these mean things about her. Judging her based solely on her appearance. They pitied my brother a lot. But my brother paid no attention to them. Naturally, my brother would devote most of his time now with his new girlfriend and less time for them. The final blow came, when one of her sisters revealed a secret that my brother had entrusted to her. That's when the relationship between my brother and this "friend" of mine deteriorated. My brother didn't want anything to do with them anymore. I on the other hand, didn't want to close the door on them like that. So I still try to remain friendly with them. Anyways. it's not the first time i teased her about my brother. I did that all the time when i had the chance(you know in jokes, timing is crucial.) And she didn't snapped like that to me. Oh well. What happened in our little chat was, she asked how my family and i were doing. And somewhere in between, i teased her about she and my brother just to lighten things up. She wanted me to be serious. Later in the conversation, I had mentioned that my brother's current girlfriend was also working abroad like she was. When i told her that, she was surprisingly interested to know where so she can talk to her. I didn't feel my brother would be too happy if he knew i told her that much so i jokingly attempted to avoid answering the question. She persisted on knowing though and also mentioned she had called my brother not too long ago. So i decided to tease her to ask my brother herself. Then...SNAP!!! I got the piss me off remark. ...and then she said she had to go. To be honest, i was shocked and really hurt by that remark. I tried to think of the best way to handle it. So I sent a smiley and said. Ok, maybe you just need to cool off a bit. I waited for her to sign out. But she didn't. So i decided to be the first one to do so.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 24, 2007 0:26:19 GMT -5
I don't know if i am being too sensitive about this. But while i was having a chat with one of my "friends", i was kind of just making some jokes. Implying maybe she still liked my brother. She said, she wanted me to be serious at first. But she blew up after i brought it up again. She said " You are pissing me off." .....Of course, i think i got hurt by that remark. Wasn't really expecting it from her. . So when she said she had to go, i replied "Ok, maybe you just need to cool off a bit." Anyway, i've been avoiding this "friend" of mine in chat sessions. Usually because everytime i talked/chatted with her, i always ended up feeling sad or bad about myself. So after months of hiding. I decided to let those bad experiences go and give her another chance. I showed myself to her online. And the result? I got a piss me off remark from her. And she wondered why i haven't been online for so long.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 21, 2007 9:38:17 GMT -5
personally, i think you may be overthinking. if you like either of these women, or any other women, enough to ask them out and have some fun with them...you know...doing something fun...then you should just do that. overthinking motives and getting more and more withdrawn is not going to make you a happy person. and it's not going to make anyone else happy either. less thinking, more action...that's what i think. focus on having some fun and enjoying your life, and you'll be fun to be around and attract people to you for that reason. other than that, all you have to do is treat people with respect, the way you would like to be treated. Yeah, i do believe i tend to think too much sometimes. Thanks for the advice Sweet Pea! With regards to Max Power's situation, i can only sympathize. All i can say is that every one of us are attracted to different kinds of people. We should respect each and everybody's personal choice. But I don't think all the girls base it solely on looks. I think there are still some who would base it on how the guy treats her.In the end, I think that is what matters the most, to anyone really. Right? Nevertheless, if the attraction between two people is based solely on looks alone, i really don't think it would last anyway. I think it would be better if the girl liked you for you and not your looks. Coz, we will all eventually get older and the beauty will fade. Anyways, don't lose hope.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 20, 2007 12:20:39 GMT -5
Sometimes it helps to look at it from the other side. Yeah, it does. I think i may have a little experience on that one. There is this girl who i had a big crush on. Unfortunately, she only thinks of me as a friend. In the past, i was really trying too hard to talk to her daily, get to know her, and maybe get her to like me. But i often felt down after i talked to her. Because it seemed she wasn't really interested. I don't know, maybe i was expecting too much. Even so it really hurt so much inside and it was really getting me depressed. She knows i have a crush on her. I don't often confess my feelings to anyone. But i couldn't help myself, and told her anyways. She felt flattered of course, but didn't know what else to say. One time, she asked me why i liked her. I told her she seemed nice and at the same time beautiful. She seemed sad though, she thought maybe its just because of her looks that i liked her. When she pointed that out to me, i felt sad as well. I felt that if she was right, then i had no right to fool her like that. I felt confused on what love is. Maybe i had always presumed, it had something to do with being attracted to someone. If it's not about being attracted to someone, i didn't know where or when it begins anymore. Even though i won't admit it, i guess i was really heartbroken after that. Because i didn't want to be an annoyance to her anymore, i decided to distance myself from her. I managed to keep myself busy with my work and some hobbies, but became more withdrawn. Since then, i am able to stop thinking about her too much. Still, there are times i would think about her. But i've come to accept and let go of any dreams i may have had to be with her as more than a friend. Sometimes i would still give her a ring though, and we would chat for a while as friends. Friends that keep in touch once in a while. On the other hand, I also know this girl who is very nice and friendly to me. And it really feels that she really likes me. Oftentimes, she would be the one who would greet and talk to me first. Despite having become more withdrawn, she would still ask me how i've been from time to time. When i think about it though, sometimes i can't help but see myself in her, when i was always the one trying to keep in touch with my crush. But then i realize, my reaction to her has been quite similar to that of my crush. I had not been reciprocating the way she treats me. I don't know if it's because of my becoming more withdrawn and confused about love. But who knows, maybe i'm wrong, maybe she doesn't like me that way. But if she is attracted to me that way, I would feel a bit guilty too, to think that i would treat her the same way. We are still friends though and i am grateful for her patience with me. (You know, my being unsociable and all.) But having become too withdrawn, even with her, eventually affected her as well. She too, has lessen her calls to me. ( The way that i had lessen my calls to my crush.) I don't know, maybe i'm being too cautious or what. I feel it would not be fair for me to get her hopes up if in the end she really does like me. I also feel i still need to work on a lot of things first. I guess i should probably try and learn to love myself first, before i can really learn to give any love back to anyone. By then maybe i would discover what or how it is truly like to love someone. After spending so much time thinking about this, i came to realize how my crush may have probably felt. Maybe she really felt no attraction towards me as well, but wanted to be friends despite it all. At the same time, i guess she was also being careful not to raise my hopes up too. You know, so that my feelings wouldn't get hurt in the end.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Feb 23, 2008 11:43:04 GMT -5
Insensitive people who put other people down. These people who seem to know it all. These people who don't care if what they say or write hurts other people. Those people who publicly attacks/humiliates others intentionally for all the world to see.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Jan 11, 2008 9:46:46 GMT -5
beggars or poor people who curse and swear. Normally, i am really sympathetic to them. But hearing them like that, kinda puts me off. It makes me think twice if i am doing the right thing giving them money sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Oct 25, 2007 11:20:30 GMT -5
myself...for being negative like this.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Mar 14, 2008 20:08:53 GMT -5
This is why I tend to reject almost all friendships with males. You guys tend to be dishonest with your true motives and feelings cause you really aren't interested in being friends but think that is the way to get in through the back door and then when you find out she doesn't feel anything for you, then you disappear. So much for the "friendship" eh? Yet another reaction, i wouldn't like her to think. Well actually i think i didn't make friends with her because i had a motive. At the time, i knew i was just trying to meet new friends. And she was one of those people who approached me and wanted to be friends. It was only later that i found myself getting attracted to her. This feeling kept getting stronger. Eventually strong enough to want to tell her about it. When she told me, she just wanted to be friends at the moment. I accepted her decision and still continued trying to be friends with her. But then over time, i slightly noticed some changes that worried me. Before, she would email me frequently and i in return would email her just as frequently. I would sometimes send her messages to her cellphone and she would do the same. But i noticed these things changed, later on. Of course, this made me feel sad somehow. I thought, why am i always thinking negatively. In my quest to improve myself and to try to change my pessimistic ways, i tried to look for answers on how to change. I wanted to be more positive. I saw this book in a bookstore about being positive. In it i read, a similar advise given by MrNice. That this kind of friendship where one party wanted more wasn't advisable. It said that i would always hope things would change. It advised that i try to leave the relationship for my own good. I think this led only to more conflict on what to do in my part. Some part of me wanted to follow the advice. While another part didn't. But as time went by, and it seemed like i was the only one trying to keep in contact with her. I began having doubts. And thought, maybe the book was right. So, i tried not to keep in touch as frequently as i did before. I tried to suppress any feelings i have for her as more than a friend. I tried not doing things that seemed overly friendly.Eventually, i managed to do that. But sometimes i feel it's been so long since i last kept in touch that maybe she thinks i was dishonest . Because i changed. You know like less frequent emails and messages. When i think about it, i don't want to be that way to her. I'm thinking maybe i hurt her. But when i try to keep in touch with her to let her know i'm still here, i feel she isn't really interested. Yeah. Some part of me really feels i did something wrong. This is where everything started to crumble. My confidence in dealing with people. To make friends. And i became increasingly withdrawn.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Mar 14, 2008 10:58:37 GMT -5
you don't want to wait until some unknown green light of 'true love' before wanting to be 'more than friends' with a girl people fall in love with each other over a period of time - however during that period of time they both know that they like each other and their feelings get stronger until at some point it feels like 'love' in other words if a girl even seems mildly attractive to you go for it both of you take the risk that things will not work out there is never a guarantee of how it will end up people have relationships of various length and break up or they date for a while only to figure out they are not right for each other for the long term however during that time, they have mutual attraction for each other I see. Thanks for explaining this to me, MrNice. So 'love' develops over time and starts with some form of attraction. Looking at the internet, i found this www.helium.com/items/164496-stages-develops-between-partners. But how can you tell if you are not right for each other? What kind of signs would those be? I mean it's hard to tell really because there is no perfect relationship right? Nobody is perfect and everyone has their own faults. you should not wait until you have some sort of feeling of true love for a girl that barely has a clue about you and then all of a sudden dump your feelings onto her you will just push her away Hehe. Your right. well what happened during lunch? did she give you any signals that she likes you? do you like her? forget true love, are you attracted to her in that sort of way at all? if yes then you do want to send that signal - that you enjoyed her company and that you would like to see her again. Well, we just talked a little bit. I asked what's going on with her..etc etc. Nothing much. I didn't really notice any signals that she liked me .Similarly I like her only as a friend as well. Am i attracted to her? Physically? I didn't feel any. Emotionally? Neither of us have something in common like what was suggested in the site i found. So i guess there was no emotional attraction either. I would like to see her again though, as a friend. usually this kind of friendship does not work out but seriously, do you have to be friends with her? the best thing is to move on if you move on, you can still become friends with her in the usual manner that you become friends with people communicating with her will be as awkward as how strong your romantic feelings are for her if you let your feelings go, then it will not be awkward at all Yes. I have read some similar advices in books and other internet websites that this kind of friendship would not be beneficial to the one who seeks more than just friendship in a relationship. Because letting go of such strong feelings seemed impossible. There was always this hope/anticipation that things would change and so on. But i sometimes feel, that it is wrong to just abandon her like that. Just because the feeling wasn't mutual. It's not her fault. Everyone is attracted to different people. Why should i hold this against her? Yet, there is some truth in your advice. I sometimes can't help but feel that there is something lacking in the friendship. Now that she knows how i feel/felt about her. Well, i really can't blame her. Maybe she is also being careful not to give me mixed signals or false hope. In the end, i know the problem was with me because i'm was the one expecting a little bit more. I expected her to be more friendlier, etc etc. At present, i believe i have managed to let go of my feelings for her or at least kept it hidden so far away. The only problem now is that when i don't keep in touch with her as often as i did before, I feel guilty because it feels like i have let her down as a friend in some way. I don't know. My "closest friend: and only real freind - an older guy - just dumped me after 5 years. Cos he wanted more - said he loved me and and couln't handle it (being around me without touching, and inimacy etc. Now I'm alone and feeling really resentful towards this person. The signs were there and I was becoming more and more uncomfortable with this person because of it. Always telling me how to "be" so - it seemed I was bette for him - but at the same time telling me to just relax and be myself! I'm sorry to hear this rubytuesday. This is just the kind of situation i don't like to give to a friend. I believe what gets in the way in friendships with the opposite sex is when feelings of love arise.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Mar 13, 2008 9:44:02 GMT -5
Outcast, is there a girl you want to be more than just friends with? I have to admit, i have several crushes. But i know those kind of feelings are often mistaken as feelings of love. So, i am not sure what kind of feeling to look for anymore. I am not sure if am able to recognize real feelings of love compared to just simple crushes, to make me want to be more than just friends with girls. I am just confused to what true love is. I don't want to hurt the girl, if my feelings for her is not the real thing. So, i am little hesitant and unsure of where to start really. Weird right? I know. But that's seems to be how i feel at the moment. Thanks for the advices Air Burst. I think i can apply your advice in the first situation. Seems easy enough. On the third situation, the girl and i already went out for lunch. It was more like a blind date of course since we got to know each other only thru our cellphones. Maybe that's why i feel like i'm courting her if we went out again. The whole "just friends with the opposite sex" thing is difficult because different people have different opinions. Some people think that there will always be the idea in your mind that one day you'll be a couple, while others think that it's ridiculous to even suggest that - of course you can just be friends. I think older people are more likely to think the latter. Air Burst's advice was pretty good - but I will add one thing.. In your second scenario, you might want to be prepared for the woman to shun you after that... Women (when I say women i'm kind of thinking girls around my age or a bit older) particularly have a bit of an "all or nothing" mentality with guys. Personally I know that if I told a guy friend I liked him, and he told me he didn't feel the same, I wouldn't want to hang out with him so much after that... because it's embarassing, and also because I might be reading signs from him (body language, or what not) that he's changed his mind and he does like me after all... So yes, after something like that has been said - there's a chance things might change between the two of you, not necessarily for the better. Yeah, i know how the embarassing the feeling is, Anna. Confessing how you like somebody only to find out the feeling is not mutual. I think i have at least 1 experience to know, that it would change what could have been a good friendship to an akward kind of friendship. Anyways, she hasn't said anything like that yet. So i am not sure, maybe i'm just jumping to conclusions, maybe not. Right now, i guess i'm just trying to be careful not to send the wrong kind of signs or messages to her.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Mar 12, 2008 3:39:34 GMT -5
How do you keep things friendly with a girl?
Sorry if it seems like a stupid question. But i feel i'm really inexperienced when it comes to dealing with people in general.
Well, here are some examples/situations, so you may get an idea.
1. Ok , you've met this nice girl. She wants to be friends with you. But at the same time, you are attracted to her as well. As time passes, you gather enough courage to say that you like her. She is flattered, but unfortunately, she only wants to be friends for the moment. How do i go about it? If i do want to remain friends with her. But i want to be careful and not overdo things that may seem beyond friendship. Would a simple email once a month or once a week suffice? I don't want to appear too distant either.
2. Or it could be the other way around. You've met this girl. She is very friendly towards you. And she would often invite you out for snacks or movies. It seems she likes you a lot. But you don't want to lead her on. You are contented to be just friends with her. How should i handle this kind of situation?
3. Similar to #2 but slightly different. A friend tries to play matchmaker and introduces you to a girl. You like to be friends with her, but your friend suggests you try going out with the girl. If you went out with her, would this already suggest that you are courting her already?Or something like that?
I guess i'm just too conservative, so i'm not sure on how to handle situations like this.
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Feb 14, 2008 10:02:15 GMT -5
How often would you want your friends to keep in touch with you? Everyday? Every other day? Once a week? Twice a week? Once a month? Once a year? Are they the ones usually calling you first? Or are you always the one calling them up? Or is it balanced?
|
|
|
Post by Outcast on Dec 23, 2007 23:18:34 GMT -5
I dreaded those kind of things in school. Even in college, i knew no one wanted me when there was any group projects. I really had no friends to hang out with even then. That's why after school, i usually hurried home. To my sanctuary.
|
|