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Post by Farouche on Dec 16, 2008 3:43:07 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit -------------
I think most of them said something to the person unless it was too late and it was the last day of school or something like that. Ah, but if you just talk about pulling the moves till you inevitably miss your chance, the result is the same as any other form of inaction. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Dec 16, 2008 4:12:43 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit -------------
I think most of them said something to the person unless it was too late and it was the last day of school or something like that. Ah, but if you just talk about pulling the moves till you inevitably miss your chance, the result is the same as any other form of inaction. That applies to shy people. The guy she is talking about isn't shy. |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Dec 16, 2008 4:15:48 GMT -5
DeadEndPhilosopher ---------
I don't think it's necessarily bad if the girl makes the very first move - she could make a move and then he could step in and start actively pursuing. But anyway we could debate this for ever. I'm of the opinion that things tend to work out better if the man is actively involved in pursing, because women seem to be more other centered and men seem to me more self centered (for that's what society expects of us). However I will admit that I honestly don't know if my opinion is true. Besides this one guy, I haven't really had dating experience. My opinion is based off observations of friend's relationships, and a book called Mars and Venus on a date, which made a lot of intuitive sense when I read it. Of course neither of these are very objective ways to gain knowledge (although there's no such thing as truly objective in the big picture). So maybe I'm wrong. I'll definitely keep your view on the matter in mind in my future observations and actions. Well, as I've said, I, too, am speaking from my own personal experience and those of friends. My experience is that mutuality and compatibility are pretty much the only things that matter. Or in other words: if your personalities click and you both work at the relationship to a similar degree, it's probably going to turn out well. The relationship you talked about in your last post to Stranger would not have blossomed fruitfully if your friend had let the guy pursue; the relationship probably never would have existed at all, right? I've personally witnessed at least one relationship in which the guy actively and gallantly pursued while the girl went along fairly passively, only to have the guy out almost *exactly* as you described it. It's the person, not the pursuit, that matters, and just as you're not going to turn a Bad Boy into a domesticated saint, you don't have to worry about turning a thoughtful guy into a self-centered dweeb just by doing a bit of chasing. That's fairly intuitive, isn't it?  Sweet Pea --------------
honestly, i think people in this situation should do whatever they want, whatever their impulse is to do, whatever gives them emotional relief...because in the long run, none of it really matters. if it's meant to be, it will happen. if it's not, it won't. so i really don't think you can 'screw it up'. i think shy people err on the side of caution almost always. so personally, i prefer to go for it, make the call, ask him out, make a fool of myself, who cares? there's no one worth having in my life who isn't worth making a bit of a fool of myself over. and if at any point, i feel that he's doing any of the things you've been worried about, treating me bad in one way or another, then i can end the relationship at that point in time. but if i'm too scared to even try, there may not be a relationship to begin with. *shrug* ^I agree with this exactly. You've called him once, so that's good; he called you back--that's a good sign. I would say to call him back, and if he doesn't pick up, leave him a message about what time of day would be best to reach you. But as SP's said, at this point it's really just up to you. Phone tag is just awkward.  I don't agree with the mindset that if it's "meant to be" the other person will go to the ends of the earth to set up a date and they won't give up on getting together with you. Not every date is the result of a long-time crush or a sudden rush of infatuation; many if not most dates are going to be between people who are merely interested in getting to know an attractive person and seeing if things go anywhere. A person who is "interested" but not infatuated may well relish an opening to get to know you better, without feeling particularly inclined to move mountains or slay dragons just to see you for coffee. And we know from reading these shy threads that many infatuated people's idea of making a move is to say "hi" pointedly, lol. Even a person who is very interested can get discouraged and give up without the proper encouragement and a clear invitation; I say, do more than leave the door unlatched and hope he thinks to try the knob. Invite him in.  I guess you just haven't experienced someone willing to go to the end of the earth for you yet. I've had some pretty persistent suitors in my life. |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 16, 2008 5:21:25 GMT -5
deadend I think you said everything right here
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Post by Stranger on Dec 16, 2008 7:39:45 GMT -5
If there was poor communication in my friend's relationship, for the most part it wasn't from her side. She had many talks with him about how his behavior made her feel. Usually he would end up crying and apologizing after she refused to buy any excuses. The talks didn't work so well, but her backing off from him more did. I suppose I'm a little lost as to why he'd be surprised if she kept bringing it up. If he just wasn't listening, then it's probably a good thing it ended, and like Farouche said, for reasons other than he just didn't "chase" her more. I called and he called back and didn't leave a message. I don't have a cell phone so he doesn't know I have caller id. Farouche, and Stranger, even you would agree that it's not worth it to try calling again right? To be honest, I feel quite out of depth with this stuff, and pretty much everything I could add has already been said. But if the question is "is he interested?" one thing does come to mind: Thinking about everything you've done from his point of view: how clear do you think you've been in showing your interest? If I recall correctly from an earlier thread (which I may not, so forgive me if that's the case), there was a possibility you sent ambiguous signals to him in the past. Did you act happy/flirty at all when you saw him this time, or were you too stressed or surprised? You did seem to take a good few days to get back to him. Add to this you generally seem to be cautious not to look too "desperate"... could it be it's sorta backfiring by making your interests look ambiguous? If you think you've been sending clear enough signals, then I'd conclude that any unresponsiveness is most likely a lack of interest too. Otherwise, he might be waiting on you to step things up a bit. As for what the single call-but-no-message means, I don't think I would take that as unresponsiveness myself. I don't tend to leave messages either. Granted, I'd probably try again, but then if you waited 5 days to get back to him, then he might try to be a bit blasé about it too. So yeah, I think I'll call again, because I am sick of taking everything so seriously and erring on the side of caution all the time, and I think I will be better able to move on if I've done everything I can. At the end of the day, I think that's the most important thing. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 16, 2008 9:49:59 GMT -5
I guess you just haven't experienced someone willing to go to the end of the earth for you yet. I've had some pretty persistent suitors in my life. lmao! no, pnats. i'm afraid most average girls never experience that. But if the question is "is he interested?" one thing does come to mind: Thinking about everything you've done from his point of view: how clear do you think you've been in showing your interest? If I recall correctly from an earlier thread (which I may not, so forgive me if that's the case), there was a possibility you sent ambiguous signals to him in the past. Did you act happy/flirty at all when you saw him this time, or were you too stressed or surprised? You did seem to take a good few days to get back to him. Add to this you generally seem to be cautious not to look too "desperate"... could it be it's sorta backfiring by making your interests look ambiguous? this is one of the things i always think about with shy folks. chances are that they may not be sending a clear message that they're interested. and often when they think that they are, it's really just that it is so difficult for them to do so it gives them an exaggerated sense of what they've conveyed. shy folks often give the message 'i might like you that way, or i might just like you as a friend'. i remember one time i had a crush on a guy in the 10th grade. he was shy too, but i thought maybe he liked me back. so i took a chance finally and talked to him. he gave me the old 'i've always thought of you as a good friend'. *stab* oh lord, just kill me now! lol. |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 16, 2008 10:07:29 GMT -5
it also happens to be a good excuse to continue dwelling upon someone that is not interested
how about a story where where one person was not sure, was mulling it over and over, was not sure if the other person was interested, and then it turned out great?
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 16, 2008 10:30:55 GMT -5
it also happens to be a good excuse to continue dwelling upon someone that is not interested how about a story where where one person was not sure, was mulling it over and over, was not sure if the other person was interested, and then it turned out great? okay, last time i was in a relationship...i went through the usual agony about whether to talk to him, whether to ask him out, whether to make a move, wasn't sure if he was really interested, wasn't sure if he was the right guy for me, etc. i ended up taking a chance, and yeah...he liked me too. it was kind of hit and miss for awhile, like about a year, lol. but he gave me enough encouragement that i would call him sometimes, and he would call me sometimes. there was also a long break when he was out of state for several months. he was kind of shy with women even though he wasn't super shy otherwise, so when it came to calling he would just call and say 'hi, what's going on?' or words to that effect, and didn't seem to have much more to say, lol. we had many conversations where we were groping for words a bit. but since we both wanted to keep seeing each other, we kept at it and eventually we were conversing pretty naturally. |
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Post by Farouche on Dec 16, 2008 23:47:56 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit --------------
I guess you just haven't experienced someone willing to go to the end of the earth for you yet.
I've had some pretty persistent suitors in my life. Well, I have to ask... how's that worked out for you? My fella more or less has gone to the ends of the Earth for me--the other end from his, anyway, lol. And it only happened after I took the first chance and let on that I really liked him and was interested in the crazy business of meeting in person, and after we'd gotten to know each other very well. He said later he hadn't felt he was in a position to make a move, even if he had realized how I felt. So who knows what would have happened if I'd played it cool and waited to be wooed? Not much, most likely. SP has a point, too. The average girl isn't someone who's going to have a bevvy of suitors falling over themselves to bring her the moon just to get her to look their way. Maybe a hundred years ago; maybe still today if you're drop-dead gorgeous. But even then I don't really see how "persistence" from a guy who barely knows you would be considered a particularly desirable thing. Flattering, for sure, but good boyfriend material? Doesn't necessarily follow. I'd rather have a guy go to the ends of the Earth to cement the bond we already share, than to do something dramatic just to get my attention, anyway.
Mr. Nice ---------------
how about a story where where one person was not sure, was mulling it over and over, was not sure if the other person was interested, and then it turned out great?
*Raises hand.* There are plenty of examples around. Where is this world people are talking about in which even "most" shy people make a move on people they like, and no one ever fails to realize if someone they like is interested in them romantically?  |
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Dec 17, 2008 1:48:42 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit --------------
I guess you just haven't experienced someone willing to go to the end of the earth for you yet.
I've had some pretty persistent suitors in my life. Well, I have to ask... how's that worked out for you? My fella more or less has gone to the ends of the Earth for me--the other end from his, anyway, lol. And it only happened after I took the first chance and let on that I really liked him and was interested in the crazy business of meeting in person, and after we'd gotten to know each other very well. He said later he hadn't felt he was in a position to make a move, even if he had realized how I felt. So who knows what would have happened if I'd played it cool and waited to be wooed? Not much, most likely. SP has a point, too. The average girl isn't someone who's going to have a bevvy of suitors falling over themselves to bring her the moon just to get her to look their way. Maybe a hundred years ago; maybe still today if you're drop-dead gorgeous. But even then I don't really see how "persistence" from a guy who barely knows you would be considered a particularly desirable thing. Flattering, for sure, but good boyfriend material? Doesn't necessarily follow. I'd rather have a guy go to the ends of the Earth to cement the bond we already share, than to do something dramatic just to get my attention, anyway.
Mr. Nice ---------------
how about a story where where one person was not sure, was mulling it over and over, was not sure if the other person was interested, and then it turned out great?
*Raises hand.* There are plenty of examples around. Where is this world people are talking about in which even "most" shy people make a move on people they like, and no one ever fails to realize if someone they like is interested in them romantically? sigh...I'm getting tired of trying to explain it. you are probably doing everything i have talked about without realizing it. Yes you let him know you were interested but you didn't chase him. |
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Post by Farouche on Dec 18, 2008 0:08:15 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit ----------------
you are probably doing everything i have talked about without realizing it.
Yes you let him know you were interested but you didn't chase him. Ya know, I'm afraid my relationship just doesn't fit in the box you've picked out, lol. Neither does at least one recent one of Sweet Pea's. And that's just out of the five or six people participating in this thread. Surely they can't be all that rare. To be honest it seems like you have one set idea in your mind of how relationships are "supposed" to work, and are just reluctant to accept that there are alternatives. Everything I've been advocating here is very much in the spirit of my personal approach. I practice what I preach, so believe me when I say my willingness to take part in the chase goes beyond simply letting my guy know I liked him. If you still don't believe me, I can go into detail, but I tell ya--I may be shy, but I'm not one to play coy in the context of a relationship. At best you could argue that this type of relationship is atypical, and yet I haven't actually seen any evidence that a woman participating in the chase is typically detrimental to a relationship; just a few vague claims about how it doesn't really work out. From all I've personally witnessed and from other people's stories, it seems pretty clear that woman pursuing is no more linked to relationship failure than the reverse. Whether it works out or not depends very little on the relative merits of wooing versus being wooed, and almost entirely on the two individual personalities involved. Just on this board we've seen a few women who will go after who and what they want if they're "truly" interested, and a number of guys who would not make a move on their object of interest without a written invitation, signed and notarized. Even in the non-shy population you're going to find a big grab-bag of motivations, hang-ups, beliefs, confidence levels, perceptive abilities, limiting factors, and quirky personalities, such that it's just not possible to boil it down to "if a guy is interested, he will do X, and the girl must do Y or the relationship will fail." ---------- Back to what this might mean for DEP or anyone in her position, my thinking is that when in real doubt about whether a guy is holding back or just not interested, it's almost always better to do something (within reason, now ), than to sit idly by, agonizing and willing him to contact you. If he turns out to be a prick or just isn't interested enough to make an effort, it should become clear pretty quickly, and you can cut your losses and go back to waiting by the phone. |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 18, 2008 0:31:28 GMT -5
it is pretty clear already
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Post by Farouche on Dec 18, 2008 1:13:51 GMT -5
Lsdima ----------------
it is pretty clear already Yeah, human motives are never murky or unclear, especially when recounted second-hand on an internet message board. Why make things complicated when it's all black and white, really, eh? |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 18, 2008 14:27:27 GMT -5
Arrg! I'm feeling so frustrated! I called the guy a couple days after he called me and this time I didn't leave a message. Unless there was a glitch in the caller id (which occasionally happens), it appears he called back two hours later (right after I left!). So I called him the next night (last night), and again I was not able to reach him and didn't leave a message. He seems like the type that always keeps his phone on him, and I don't remember having trouble getting a hold of him during the summer, but maybe he's more busy now. . .
Anyway, would it look really desperate if he doesn't call back and I call him again anyway? I don't like the idea of leaving things so unresolved, but I don't want him to seriously regret telling me to call.
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 18, 2008 14:43:43 GMT -5
DeadEndPhilosopher ---------
I don't think it's necessarily bad if the girl makes the very first move - she could make a move and then he could step in and start actively pursuing. But anyway we could debate this for ever. I'm of the opinion that things tend to work out better if the man is actively involved in pursing, because women seem to be more other centered and men seem to me more self centered (for that's what society expects of us). However I will admit that I honestly don't know if my opinion is true. Besides this one guy, I haven't really had dating experience. My opinion is based off observations of friend's relationships, and a book called Mars and Venus on a date, which made a lot of intuitive sense when I read it. Of course neither of these are very objective ways to gain knowledge (although there's no such thing as truly objective in the big picture). So maybe I'm wrong. I'll definitely keep your view on the matter in mind in my future observations and actions. Well, as I've said, I, too, am speaking from my own personal experience and those of friends. My experience is that mutuality and compatibility are pretty much the only things that matter. Or in other words: if your personalities click and you both work at the relationship to a similar degree, it's probably going to turn out well. The relationship you talked about in your last post to Stranger would not have blossomed fruitfully if your friend had let the guy pursue; the relationship probably never would have existed at all, right? I've personally witnessed at least one relationship in which the guy actively and gallantly pursued while the girl went along fairly passively, only to have the guy out almost *exactly* as you described it. It's the person, not the pursuit, that matters, and just as you're not going to turn a Bad Boy into a domesticated saint, you don't have to worry about turning a thoughtful guy into a self-centered dweeb just by doing a bit of chasing. That's fairly intuitive, isn't it? Sweet Pea --------------
honestly, i think people in this situation should do whatever they want, whatever their impulse is to do, whatever gives them emotional relief...because in the long run, none of it really matters. if it's meant to be, it will happen. if it's not, it won't. so i really don't think you can 'screw it up'. i think shy people err on the side of caution almost always. so personally, i prefer to go for it, make the call, ask him out, make a fool of myself, who cares? there's no one worth having in my life who isn't worth making a bit of a fool of myself over. and if at any point, i feel that he's doing any of the things you've been worried about, treating me bad in one way or another, then i can end the relationship at that point in time. but if i'm too scared to even try, there may not be a relationship to begin with. *shrug* ^I agree with this exactly. You've called him once, so that's good; he called you back--that's a good sign. I would say to call him back, and if he doesn't pick up, leave him a message about what time of day would be best to reach you. But as SP's said, at this point it's really just up to you. Phone tag is just awkward. I don't agree with the mindset that if it's "meant to be" the other person will go to the ends of the earth to set up a date and they won't give up on getting together with you. Not every date is the result of a long-time crush or a sudden rush of infatuation; many if not most dates are going to be between people who are merely interested in getting to know an attractive person and seeing if things go anywhere. A person who is "interested" but not infatuated may well relish an opening to get to know you better, without feeling particularly inclined to move mountains or slay dragons just to see you for coffee. And we know from reading these shy threads that many infatuated people's idea of making a move is to say "hi" pointedly, lol. Even a person who is very interested can get discouraged and give up without the proper encouragement and a clear invitation; I say, do more than leave the door unlatched and hope he thinks to try the knob. Invite him in. Well in the situation with my friend, things did seem to improve a lot when she bumped her boyfriend down in her priorities. When she pulled away, he started to pull in. I agree that most people don't get together out of intense crushes and infatuations, however this guy is not even really showing much of any type of interest in meeting again. |
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