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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 18, 2008 16:16:31 GMT -5
Well I hope those who encouraged her to chase this guy who never was interested are satisfied with you theories.  she was encouraged to give it a shot if it pleased her to do so, pnats. she was not encouraged to agonize over it. nor was she guaranteed the result she wanted. but then, no one is. the traditional 'me tarzan, you jane' approach doesn't always work for everyone either. |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 18, 2008 16:23:05 GMT -5
i'm not annoyed by anything you are doing. i was saying for me personally the whole strategizing thing just ruins the whole deal. i can't think of a faster way to suck all the romance out of the situation than cold calculating strategizing. more suited to a military campaign than a romantic relationship. but if it works for you, go for it! Haha, I think this is more about pushing my boundaries than romance at this point. well, you've certainly successfully done that! and gee, look - the world didn't end, your head didn't explode, there isn't a crowd standing in your yard chanting 'shame, shame, shame'. hey, i'd say you survived this latest expansion of your boundaries pretty well. you really can express positive interest in someone, not get the result you think you want, and still survive intact! ;D |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 18, 2008 16:31:27 GMT -5
Haha, I think this is more about pushing my boundaries than romance at this point. well, you've certainly successfully done that! and gee, look - the world didn't end, your head didn't explode, there isn't a crowd standing in your yard chanting 'shame, shame, shame'. hey, i'd say you survived this latest expansion of your boundaries pretty well. you really can express positive interest in someone, not get the result you think you want, and still survive intact! ;D Haha, thank you Sweet Pea. You know I really don't feel that bad about being rejected, which surprises me. I feel frustrated, but I feel good for making the effort. |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 18, 2008 16:37:02 GMT -5
I want to clarify something. I want to contact this guy for CLOSURE, because I have spent way too much time obsessing over him. I think if I talk to him, he will come down from the pedestal my mind has involuntarily placed him on, and I'll be able to forget about him. However unfortunately I do still care what he thinks to a degree, and I don't want to look like a desperate moron. Well I hope those who encouraged her to chase this guy who never was interested are satisfied with you theories. Anyway, he is obviously playing some silly mind fuck phone game with you at this point. No, don't call him again and no you don't need to speak to him for closure. You get closure from yourself, not others. I will reiterate. When someone is interested, especially a man, they let you know and they make the effort. Men pursue and show active interest and women should show receptive interest. Men are the hunters. If you take away them feeling like they won you over and you are a great prize then you emasculate him and he loses interest and goes looking for the next conquest. People like what is difficult to get. Sure if the female chases, most likely you'll end up with a short term lukewarm relationship. That is how it works and I'm sticking to it. The times where I did all the work and pursued I got a lukewarm guy who was looking out for his interests and what he could get from me. The times I showed receptive interest and let him lead, the feelings were much stronger and I was treated much better. I know I don't NEED to speak to him for closure, but I want to. It doesn't really matter though, I'll try to move on anyway. It's not like I have a raging crush on him - I'm not sure how he became such a target for obsession. |
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Post by Farouche on Dec 20, 2008 18:38:11 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Well I hope those who encouraged her to chase this guy who never was interested are satisfied with you theories.
I will reiterate. When someone is interested, especially a man, they let you know and they make the effort. No one ever said it was a good idea to throw yourself repeatedly at someone who shows no interest. All anyone has advocated is making a reasonable effort to go after the things you want. If it’s ambiguous, you make the phone call. You invite them to make their feelings more clear. If you keep getting ambiguous signs, you have your answer. But if you don’t make the attempt, you’ll never really know what might have been possible otherwise. Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Men pursue and show active interest and women should show receptive interest.
Men are the hunters. If you take away them feeling like they won you over and you are a great prize then you emasculate him and he loses interest and goes looking for the next conquest. People like what is difficult to get.
Sure if the female chases, most likely you'll end up with a short term lukewarm relationship.
That is how it works and I'm sticking to it. Um, no. A good rule of thumb is that when you find yourself insisting that people can only think, feel, or act a certain way, and other people are saying there are multiple correct ways, you're probably in the wrong. Plenty of guys are not looking for a relationship to make them feel macho or give them a chance to practice their hunting technique, just as plenty of women aren't looking for their guy to make them feel precious or cater to their whims. If you personally like that kind of dynamic, you are welcome to it, and there are plenty of guys like that out there. But the fact of the matter is that assertive women can and do find relationships with guys that don't feel "emasculated" if they fail to swoon into his arms. You can stick up your nose at the idea; you don't have to like it; but that's just the way it is. In this case what you want is likely to be just what you get. Jessica Wabbit --------------
The times where I did all the work and pursued I got a lukewarm guy who was looking out for his interests and what he could get from me.
The times I showed receptive interest and let him lead, the feelings were much stronger and I was treated much better. It's not very logical to insist that something doesn’t happen just because it doesn’t happen to you, or that a type of relationship isn’t right or workable just because it isn’t right or hasn’t been workable for you, when there is plenty of evidence out there that it does for other people. Case in point—if I only went by what I myself have experienced, I would have to say that ALL relationships should involve the woman doing a substantial amount of chasing, and maybe even speculate that all relationships involving one-sided male pursuit must be doomed to failure. But I can look around and see that other people have different approaches and ideals, and still manage to be happy. Different things work for different people. If you specifically want to be wooed, then sitting around looking pretty and waiting for attention is fine. However, if all you want is a fulfilling relationship that works, there is no good argument, in this day and age, for always sitting idly by. A girl making the move tends to have just about the same chance that a guy making a move has—and by nature it's not such a great chance at all. Putting yourself out there always has a high risk of rejection, but just as guys have traditionally been expected to suck it up and get over it, we gals can do the same. I’ve done it; SP has done it; it's generally not a very big deal. (Probably less than it is for guys, actually, since girls tend to be more likely to feel uncomfortable with even casual contact after rejecting a guy's advances). And when good things come of it, it is oh so worth it. As to the situation you describe, It's almost never a good idea to be doing “all the work” in a relationship, whether you're a guy or a girl. That tends to result in nothing more than a one-sided relationship. Being assertive, on the other hand, doesn't mean dragging the other person through the rituals of courtship; it just means being active in going after what you want, instead of expecting it to always fall into your lap. And on that note, I say kudos to DEP for calling this guy, and even calling more than once. You made the effort; you got your answer. Good for you! Positive thumbs.  |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 20, 2008 19:31:01 GMT -5
the problem here is figuring out whether have done enough or whether you are throwing yourself at someone
most people tend to be encouraging without realizing that more then enough has already been done
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Post by Farouche on Dec 20, 2008 19:41:23 GMT -5
Mr. Nice ---------------
the problem here is figuring out whether have done enough or whether you are throwing yourself at someone
most people tend to be encouraging without realizing that more then enough has already been done Enough had not been done. If a girl had been the one giving a phone number, you would tell the guy to go ahead and call her, if only for practice. This wasn't "throwing herself" at anyone. The only thing stopping her from making a move was her fear that it would be the wrong thing for a woman to do. Well, she called the guy, and he responded noncommittally. Now she's got an answer. Now enough has been done. |
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Post by MrNice on Dec 20, 2008 19:44:31 GMT -5
you forget that they have dated in the past
besides I did suggest to call him
in the course of the discussion though it became increasingly clear that he was not interested
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 20, 2008 20:14:12 GMT -5
what i want to know is, who you gonna hit on next, DEP? ;D
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Post by pnoopiepnats on Dec 21, 2008 0:10:04 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Well I hope those who encouraged her to chase this guy who never was interested are satisfied with you theories.
I will reiterate. When someone is interested, especially a man, they let you know and they make the effort. No one ever said it was a good idea to throw yourself repeatedly at someone who shows no interest. All anyone has advocated is making a reasonable effort to go after the things you want. If it’s ambiguous, you make the phone call. You invite them to make their feelings more clear. If you keep getting ambiguous signs, you have your answer. But if you don’t make the attempt, you’ll never really know what might have been possible otherwise. Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Men pursue and show active interest and women should show receptive interest.
Men are the hunters. If you take away them feeling like they won you over and you are a great prize then you emasculate him and he loses interest and goes looking for the next conquest. People like what is difficult to get.
Sure if the female chases, most likely you'll end up with a short term lukewarm relationship.
That is how it works and I'm sticking to it. Um, no. A good rule of thumb is that when you find yourself insisting that people can only think, feel, or act a certain way, and other people are saying there are multiple correct ways, you're probably in the wrong. Plenty of guys are not looking for a relationship to make them feel macho or give them a chance to practice their hunting technique, just as plenty of women aren't looking for their guy to make them feel precious or cater to their whims. If you personally like that kind of dynamic, you are welcome to it, and there are plenty of guys like that out there. But the fact of the matter is that assertive women can and do find relationships with guys that don't feel "emasculated" if they fail to swoon into his arms. You can stick up your nose at the idea; you don't have to like it; but that's just the way it is. In this case what you want is likely to be just what you get. Jessica Wabbit --------------
The times where I did all the work and pursued I got a lukewarm guy who was looking out for his interests and what he could get from me.
The times I showed receptive interest and let him lead, the feelings were much stronger and I was treated much better. It's not very logical to insist that something doesn’t happen just because it doesn’t happen to you, or that a type of relationship isn’t right or workable just because it isn’t right or hasn’t been workable for you, when there is plenty of evidence out there that it does for other people. Case in point—if I only went by what I myself have experienced, I would have to say that ALL relationships should involve the woman doing a substantial amount of chasing, and maybe even speculate that all relationships involving one-sided male pursuit must be doomed to failure. But I can look around and see that other people have different approaches and ideals, and still manage to be happy. Different things work for different people. If you specifically want to be wooed, then sitting around looking pretty and waiting for attention is fine. However, if all you want is a fulfilling relationship that works, there is no good argument, in this day and age, for always sitting idly by. A girl making the move tends to have just about the same chance that a guy making a move has—and by nature it's not such a great chance at all. Putting yourself out there always has a high risk of rejection, but just as guys have traditionally been expected to suck it up and get over it, we gals can do the same. I’ve done it; SP has done it; it's generally not a very big deal. (Probably less than it is for guys, actually, since girls tend to be more likely to feel uncomfortable with even casual contact after rejecting a guy's advances). And when good things come of it, it is oh so worth it. As to the situation you describe, It's almost never a good idea to be doing “all the work” in a relationship, whether you're a guy or a girl. That tends to result in nothing more than a one-sided relationship. Being assertive, on the other hand, doesn't mean dragging the other person through the rituals of courtship; it just means being active in going after what you want, instead of expecting it to always fall into your lap. And on that note, I say kudos to DEP for calling this guy, and even calling more than once. You made the effort; you got your answer. Good for you! Positive thumbs. No, I am certain that I'm right and you are wrong. |
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Post by Farouche on Dec 21, 2008 0:40:22 GMT -5
Mr. Nice ------------------
in the course of the discussion though it became increasingly clear that he was not interested So you mean after she made the call. The discussion was all about the merits of making that first call, not about continuing to call him. So there's actually no disagreement here. Jessica Wabbit -------------
No, I am certain that I'm right and you are wrong.
Nice argument. Good luck waiting by the phone. |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 25, 2008 20:14:01 GMT -5
Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Well I hope those who encouraged her to chase this guy who never was interested are satisfied with you theories.
I will reiterate. When someone is interested, especially a man, they let you know and they make the effort. No one ever said it was a good idea to throw yourself repeatedly at someone who shows no interest. All anyone has advocated is making a reasonable effort to go after the things you want. If it’s ambiguous, you make the phone call. You invite them to make their feelings more clear. If you keep getting ambiguous signs, you have your answer. But if you don’t make the attempt, you’ll never really know what might have been possible otherwise. Jessica Wabbit ---------------
Men pursue and show active interest and women should show receptive interest.
Men are the hunters. If you take away them feeling like they won you over and you are a great prize then you emasculate him and he loses interest and goes looking for the next conquest. People like what is difficult to get.
Sure if the female chases, most likely you'll end up with a short term lukewarm relationship.
That is how it works and I'm sticking to it. Um, no. A good rule of thumb is that when you find yourself insisting that people can only think, feel, or act a certain way, and other people are saying there are multiple correct ways, you're probably in the wrong. Plenty of guys are not looking for a relationship to make them feel macho or give them a chance to practice their hunting technique, just as plenty of women aren't looking for their guy to make them feel precious or cater to their whims. If you personally like that kind of dynamic, you are welcome to it, and there are plenty of guys like that out there. But the fact of the matter is that assertive women can and do find relationships with guys that don't feel "emasculated" if they fail to swoon into his arms. You can stick up your nose at the idea; you don't have to like it; but that's just the way it is. In this case what you want is likely to be just what you get. Jessica Wabbit --------------
The times where I did all the work and pursued I got a lukewarm guy who was looking out for his interests and what he could get from me.
The times I showed receptive interest and let him lead, the feelings were much stronger and I was treated much better. It's not very logical to insist that something doesn’t happen just because it doesn’t happen to you, or that a type of relationship isn’t right or workable just because it isn’t right or hasn’t been workable for you, when there is plenty of evidence out there that it does for other people. Case in point—if I only went by what I myself have experienced, I would have to say that ALL relationships should involve the woman doing a substantial amount of chasing, and maybe even speculate that all relationships involving one-sided male pursuit must be doomed to failure. But I can look around and see that other people have different approaches and ideals, and still manage to be happy. Different things work for different people. If you specifically want to be wooed, then sitting around looking pretty and waiting for attention is fine. However, if all you want is a fulfilling relationship that works, there is no good argument, in this day and age, for always sitting idly by. A girl making the move tends to have just about the same chance that a guy making a move has—and by nature it's not such a great chance at all. Putting yourself out there always has a high risk of rejection, but just as guys have traditionally been expected to suck it up and get over it, we gals can do the same. I’ve done it; SP has done it; it's generally not a very big deal. (Probably less than it is for guys, actually, since girls tend to be more likely to feel uncomfortable with even casual contact after rejecting a guy's advances). And when good things come of it, it is oh so worth it. As to the situation you describe, It's almost never a good idea to be doing “all the work” in a relationship, whether you're a guy or a girl. That tends to result in nothing more than a one-sided relationship. Being assertive, on the other hand, doesn't mean dragging the other person through the rituals of courtship; it just means being active in going after what you want, instead of expecting it to always fall into your lap. And on that note, I say kudos to DEP for calling this guy, and even calling more than once. You made the effort; you got your answer. Good for you! Positive thumbs. Farouche, you are great at debating and I see your logic, but I still think there is something to the philosophy that things work best when guys pursue. Like any generalization this isn't true in all circumstances and situations, or for all couples, but I think there is some wisdom in this philosophy. Realistically there are different roles and expectations for men and women and society (conscious and unconscious), and I think this complicates things when it comes to dating. It's annoying, but true in my opinion. However this doesn't mean I intend make it my philosophy to throw my hands up and never go for any guys unless they go for me first. In my view, it all depends on the specific circumstance/situation and person one is dealing with. |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 25, 2008 20:18:40 GMT -5
what i want to know is, who you gonna hit on next, DEP? ;D Haha, good question. I'm not around many guys my age. I joined a martial arts class hoping to meet some, but it's just my luck that the youngest is six years older, and the rest are pretty much middle aged. Have any suggestions on where I can be exposed to guys in their early twenties? |
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Post by Sweet Pea on Dec 25, 2008 20:28:27 GMT -5
what i want to know is, who you gonna hit on next, DEP? ;D Haha, good question. I'm not around many guys my age. I joined a martial arts class hoping to meet some, but it's just my luck that the youngest is six years older, and the rest are pretty much middle aged. Have any suggestions on where I can be exposed to guys in their early twenties? geez, i didn't figure that would be a problem. i run into them everywhere i go! |
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Post by deadendphilosopher on Dec 25, 2008 21:00:30 GMT -5
Haha, good question. I'm not around many guys my age. I joined a martial arts class hoping to meet some, but it's just my luck that the youngest is six years older, and the rest are pretty much middle aged. Have any suggestions on where I can be exposed to guys in their early twenties? geez, i didn't figure that would be a problem. i run into them everywhere i go! Hm, maybe we should switch towns! |
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